A glaring stat that needs to be addressed

Harry · September 21, 2015

UNT ranks 128th in defense on 3rd down. This means, we give up first downs on 3rd down more often than any other team in the country. UT ranks 127th. This per Dallas Morning News.

The 3rd and 20 Rice conversion play sticks out in my mind from Saturday... but there have been WAY too many similar type plays this season. It appears that Cosh is moving into a semi-prevent on 3rd downs, often with a standard rush package. Perhaps we need to rethink this strategy?

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 21, 2015

An injured and diminished secondary getting more dinged up on Saturday doesn't help.

BillySee58 · September 21, 2015

Absolutely. Defense has been awful on third down.

An injured and diminished secondary getting more dinged up on Saturday doesn't help.

Who have we lost in the secondary? Buyers, Fernandes, and who else? Buyers and Fernandes are two former walkons. They're obviously very good and not average walkons, but if injuries to two former walkons hurt your team that much, what does that say about your recruiting at that position? The guys playing now were recruited to play by this staff. They should be able to get the job done.

Ben Gooding · September 21, 2015

I just want to see a defense that takes chances, uses exotic blitzes, sophisticated stunts inside, delaying LB blitzes, etc. What we are currently doing is not working. Look no further than Virginia Tech. They are one of the most heavy blitzing defenses in the country and have been for some time. They are not a great team and that is because they struggle to find consistency at QB, but their scheme on D allows them to be in every single game they play. Beamer plays D to win the game, not to lose. We do everything on both sides of the ball to just not lose and it's allowing to do just that, lose. The coaching staff needs to take a step back and reevaluate everything on O and D. Chico needs to be let go. The faster he is gone the faster Mac will have no one to hide behind. Through 2 games we are losing on average 35-18. I expect to see a score very similar to that this up coming Saturday, if not worse.

Absolutely. Defense has been awful on third down.
Who have we lost in the secondary? Buyers, Fernandes, and who else? Buyers and Fernandes are two former walkons. They're obviously very good and not average walkons, but if injuries to two former walkons hurt your team that much, what does that say about your recruiting at that position? The guys playing now were recruited to play by this staff. They should be able to get the job done.

Maybe, probably, factually....That is where the problem lies.

keith · September 21, 2015

Here's the one that really, really needs to be addressed.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/dan-mccarney-1.html

W - L Pct

22-29 .431

Army of Dad · September 21, 2015

Here's the one that really, really needs to be addressed.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/dan-mccarney-1.html
W - L Pct
22-29 .431

oh good, no chance he gets to 40 losses this year.

Travis · September 21, 2015

Clearly something needs to change if you are last statistically in a vital category.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 21, 2015

Absolutely. Defense has been awful on third down.
Who have we lost in the secondary? Buyers, Fernandes, and who else? Buyers and Fernandes are two former walkons. They're obviously very good and not average walkons, but if injuries to two former walkons hurt your team that much, what does that say about your recruiting at that position? The guys playing now were recruited to play by this staff. They should be able to get the job done.

Not denying the recruiting in that area has been bad. James Gray gonna be alright? I left early but I thought he was hurt as well. Again, a JuCo who is starting which says a lot to your point.

Edited September 21, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

BillySee58 · September 21, 2015

Not denying the recruiting in that area has been bad. James Gray gonna be alright? I left early but I thought he was hurt as well. Again, a JuCo who is starting which says a lot to your point.

He came back. I like the Gray pickup, but yeah, like you said, he's a juco playing his first season of D1 football. Going to be some growing pains, especially against the pass.

golfingomez · September 21, 2015

yeah, we focus too much on the QB position and fail to address the fact that we have to have had the worst secondary in FBS over the past two seasons...

Rice QB went 29/39 for 373 and 3 TDs... and one of those incompletions was an early slant dropped by an open receiver that could have been another 30 yard gain...

the D-line started getting some decent pressure this week to help out the secondary... but we really can't cover anyone...

and it only magnifies the problem on the other side of the ball where, aside from Harris and his speed, we don't have a receiver that we really trust...

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 21, 2015

He came back. I like the Gray pickup, but yeah, like you said, he's a juco playing his first season of D1 football. Going to be some growing pains, especially against the pass.

I just thought it was so spare how Whitfield didn't even have his name on his jersey yet and I knew it was going to be a long day for the secondary.

MGNation92 · September 21, 2015

yeah, we focus too much on the QB position and fail to address the fact that we have to have had the worst secondary in FBS over the past two seasons...
Rice QB went 29/39 for 373 and 3 TDs... and one of those incompletions was an early slant dropped by an open receiver that could have been another 30 yard gain...
the D-line started getting some decent pressure this week to help out the secondary... but we really can't cover anyone...
and it only magnifies the problem on the other side of the ball where, aside from Harris and his speed, we don't have a receiver that we really trust...

It seems Cosh has adopted the Skladany mantra of having the corners play 15 yards off the line every down and distance. Making 5 yard slants, hitches, and screens the easiest guaranteed 10 yard throws a QB will have to make against us. That's what is so infuriating to me. We are so terrible on 3rd down because we will have the corners 5 yards behind the first down marker and hope they make a play. I understand playing off to allow the corner to step up and make the tackle, but if they miss that tackle, they are burned anyways. Might as well play man across the board and get burned. At least challenge the receivers every once and a while

Cr1028 · September 21, 2015

UNT ranks 128th in defense on 3rd down. This means, we give up first downs on 3rd down more often than any other team in the country. UT ranks 127th. This per Dallas Morning News.

The 3rd and 20 Rice conversion play sticks out in my mind from Saturday... but there have been WAY too many similar type plays this season. It appears that Cosh is moving into a semi-prevent on 3rd downs, often with a standard rush package. Perhaps we need to rethink this strategy?

Does this say more about Rice or about us? Rice is the best at converting 3rd downs in the nation and it isn't even close. They were the best before our game ever started. We padded their stats a bit but let's not act like a piss-poor team converted 3rd downs on us.

MeanGreenTexan · September 21, 2015

Does this say more about Rice or about us? Rice is the best at converting 3rd downs in the nation and it isn't even close. They were the best before our game ever started. We padded their stats a bit but let's not act like a piss-poor team converted 3rd downs on us.

Well, a piss poor team certainly did 2 Saturdays ago...

FirefightnRick · September 21, 2015

Here's a visual of what Rice did to us all day long,.. And it didn't really matter what down it was,..

....Rice needing 5 yards on a third down of their second possession. At the top the outside corner is 7 yards deep...the safety is 14 yards deep. At the bottom, the corner is three yards deep and the safety is somewhere near Waco out of the picture?

The inside slot receiver at the top runs a go taking the safety down around Cleburne? Our linebacker at the top of the screen drops 8 yards back leaving a huge hole for the top outside receiver to simply run a 5 yard stop..turn around for the reception...first down.

Our our zone defense is terrible and Iowa's Beathard is going to eat it alive next Saturday if something doesn't change?

Rick

Got5onIt · September 21, 2015

Absolutely. Defense has been awful on third down.
Who have we lost in the secondary? Buyers, Fernandes, and who else? Buyers and Fernandes are two former walkons. They're obviously very good and not average walkons, but if injuries to two former walkons hurt your team that much, what does that say about your recruiting at that position? The guys playing now were recruited to play by this staff. They should be able to get the job done.

Hmmmmm, sounds like we've had this discussion over a few other positions...

MeanGreenHoops · September 21, 2015

A lot of people like to say our defense gets tired and that explains why they can't make plays when really needed, but what I've seen is that the longer the game goes on the less plays they make in the last two years. It could be they are tired, but the more likely explanation is the other teams have adjusted to what we are doing and we can't keep up.

All About UNT · September 21, 2015

like I said when we hired him....

Cosh has NOT worked at a program longer than 3 yrs (only 1 job over 2 yrs) over the last 20 some odd years of coaching. Finding him as D-Line coach at a school we SHOULD be considering beneath us does not bode well for his reputation.

He hasn't bothered moving his family to Denton for a reason.

I don't expect our defense to go anywhere with him at the helm. We might see some improvement on D-Line but that would be due to Kevin Patrick being a badass.

greenminer · September 21, 2015

like I said when we hired him....
Cosh has NOT worked at a program longer than 3 yrs (only 1 job over 2 yrs) over the last 20 some odd years of coaching. Finding him as D-Line coach at a school we SHOULD be considering beneath us does not bode well for his reputation.
He hasn't bothered moving his family to Denton for a reason.
I don't expect our defense to go anywhere with him at the helm. We might see some improvement on D-Line but that would be due to Kevin Patrick being a badass.

Where do y'all find his information and, more absurdly, is it weird that people actually seek this info out?

I'm going to assume you heard this during some tailgate/water cooler chat.

Ben Gooding · September 21, 2015

It seems Cosh has adopted the Skladany mantra of having the corners play 15 yards off the line every down and distance. Making 5 yard slants, hitches, and screens the easiest guaranteed 10 yard throws a QB will have to make against us. That's what is so infuriating to me. We are so terrible on 3rd down because we will have the corners 5 yards behind the first down marker and hope they make a play. I understand playing off to allow the corner to step up and make the tackle, but if they miss that tackle, they are burned anyways. Might as well play man across the board and get burned. At least challenge the receivers every once and a while

Really? The Skladany mantra? You don't think Dan Mccarney has his hands all over the defense, offense and special teams. Once this team inevitably falls apart hopefully we start getting better information from the players and the real status of the program from the inside.

I have personally only spoken to one former player in regards to inside the locker room. I will not completely dime him out, but he was a former running back that decided to not play anymore. He told me that the program does not have a good, solid foundation. He then said that the staff is uptight and makes the persona of the entire program feel like he was walking on eggshells everywhere he went. He said it was the worst time of his football playing career. He said that when certain coaches aren't around no one takes anything seriously and his time there felt bush league. Granted, this is from a former disgruntled player, but he said that other players that decided to hang in have similar if not exact feelings.

Rudy · September 21, 2015

It seems Cosh has adopted the Skladany mantra of having the corners play 15 yards off the line every down and distance. Making 5 yard slants, hitches, and screens the easiest guaranteed 10 yard throws a QB will have to make against us.

what's the common denominator here?

MGNation92 · September 21, 2015

Really? The Skladany mantra? You don't think Dan Mccarney has his hands all over the defense, offense and special teams. Once this team inevitably falls apart hopefully we start getting better information from the players and the real status of the program from the inside.
I have personally only spoken to one former player in regards to inside the locker room. I will not completely dime him out, but he was a former running back that decided to not play anymore. He told me that the program does not have a good, solid foundation. He then said that the staff is uptight and makes the persona of the entire program feel like he was walking on eggshells everywhere he went. He said it was the worst time of his football playing career. He said that when certain coaches aren't around no one takes anything seriously and his time there felt bush league. Granted, this is from a former disgruntled player, but he said that other players that decided to hang in have similar if not exact feelings.

what's the common denominator here?

You're right. McCarney is too old school for his own good. I wish we could bring in a young offensive minded coach with a blitz happy defensive coordinator(look at what LA Tech did last year with Diaz at the helm) and tell them both to pin their ears back and try to embarrass everybody we play. The team plays too tight as it is, which consequently leads to mistake-laden football. Mac has such an iron grip on the team's culture that it will burn with him. I firmly believe Smatresk will make wholesale changes in the near future. I think he realizes its not 1972, we aren't the Nebraska Corhuskers, and Bob Devaney isn't our head coach. It is now 2015. The veer offense(although we don't run it, I'm sure Mac would run it if he could) as fun as it is to watch, is not successful anymore. We need an AD and coaching staff that will adapt its culture, make players want to come play here and take chances when necessary.

Ben Gooding · September 21, 2015

Not when necessary...at this point we need to take chances all the time, in every phase, in every game. There is just no way that Mac can turn what he has built around. No way. If this was a Vegas betting line I would give him 10-1 odds. The president can see it. Most of the fans are starting to. I hope not a single soul shows up for HC. I said I would show up for at least that game, but screw it. Why show up to a HC game vs FCS Portland that might actually beat us. It's beyond embarrassing. Ashton...BTE? Beyond the Embarrassment?

Cr1028 · September 21, 2015

Well, a piss poor team certainly did 2 Saturdays ago...

I wouldn't call SMU a piss-poor team but yes giving up 1st downs on 3/5 of there 3rd downs is not optimal. I get your point. They converted 46.7% against Baylor, 60% against us, and 33% against TCU.