Realistic expectations for this program

Harry · September 20, 2015

On the drive back home from the game yesterday, I did some thinking about where we stand right now sitting at 0-2 with a tough game against Iowa next week.

i think the bottomline is I want to see us as a program reach our full potential. I realize we aren't one of the football palaces ie UT, LSU, State, A&M etc and probably never will be. I'm perfectly fine with that.

i look at a program like Toledo this year and what they have accomplished this season and feel like in the right circumstances with the right pieces in place we could be in a similar position. Hoe exciting it would be to beat an SEC team on the road and a Big 12 team in the same season?

i feel like we have many key pieces in place that Toledo does not have.

I know that many say that North Texas historically just hasn't been a good program. My response to them is, until Apogee opened in 2011 did we really support the program at a deserving level? I'm tired of the comparisons to the past. This is a new era -- one in which our expectations SHOULD be higher than they have ever been.

To summarize I just do not feel like we are getting the most out of the resources at our disposal. This leads me to wonder if the powers that be, the BOR, president and other high level donors and advisors feel similarly.

im interested in hearing other opinions on this.

Edited September 20, 2015 by Harry

greenminer · September 20, 2015

Minus the Apogee part, I think I read this exact post 10 years ago.

GRN-WHT · September 20, 2015

To summarize I just do not feel like we are getting the most out of the resources at our disposal.

Not even close to getting the most out of our resources. When half of the teams in the country go to bowl games, not going should be the exception, not the norm like it is now. We must also expect to be competitive in basketball every year.

Anything less is unacceptable.

GoMeanGreen1999 · September 20, 2015

On the drive back home from the game yesterday, I did some thinking about where we stand right now sitting at 0-2 with a tough game against Iowa next week.
i think the bottomline is I want to see us as a program reach our full potential. I realize we aren't one of the football palaces ie UT, LSU, State, A&M etc and probably never will be. I'm perfectly fine with that.
i look at a program like Toledo this year and what they have accomplished this season and feel like in the right circumstances with the right pieces in place we could be in a similar position. Hoe exciting it would be to beat an SEC team on the road and a Big 12 team in the same season?
i feel like we have many key pieces in place that Toledo does not have.
I know that many say that North Texas historically just hasn't been a good program. My response to them is, until Apogee opened in 2011 did we really support the program at a deserving level? I'm tired of the comparisons to the past. This is a new era -- one in which our expectations SHOULD be higher than they have ever been.
To summarize I just do not feel like we are getting the most out of the resources at our disposal. This leads me to wonder if the powers that be, the BOR, president and other high level donors and advisors feel similarly.
im interested in hearing other opinions on this.

Could you explain a little more this statement please?

DallasGreen · September 20, 2015

Can't answer for all high level donors, but the$1.3 million just donated shows somebody cares. I know the Prez cares. All those banking on support of students for Thurs. night game can kiss that good bye as most were gone by half time yesterday. I still feel until we have a competitive student athletic fee and a town that acts like a real college town we are at our ceiling. MAC & RV as well as Benford are just there to enjoy the cushy ride and stay under the radar. Has worked well big money and no accountability or expectations. Prez won't keep letting this continue. He is the one and only hope. He knows you can't be Tier 1 with the worst Athletics in FBS, and he wants Tier 1 very badly. Keep those e-mails coming to him . He is the only voice that can shatter the status quo!!!

Green Mean · September 20, 2015

I know that many say that North Texas historically just hasn't been a good program. My response to them is, until Apogee opened in 2011 did we really support the program at a deserving level? I'm tired of the comparisons to the past. This is a new era -- one in which our expectations SHOULD be higher than they have ever been.
To summarize I just do not feel like we are getting the most out of the resources at our disposal. This leads me to wonder if the powers that be, the BOR, president and other high level donors and advisors feel similarly.

I don't care what team/institution/business you are but they will not get the support until they give people a reason to support them.

We have almost EVERYTHING in place to absolutely burst into a very good to great program because until you get great products and results on the field/court etc people will not go out of their way to support something. The school has made it a point for the last decade or so to increase school pride amongst the student body etc and there is a difference but where we need to be and want to be we have to give serious priority and attention to athletics and the bottom line results. We have all these nice facilities and upgrades now but they mean absolutely nothing when people don't care to go because the teams suck in the sports that people care about.

The fact that RV, Dodge, Mac, Benford have kept their jobs here as long as they have/did with their overall track record leads me to believe that either the school is incompetent or they just don't care tho it may be both.

I realize yesterday's attendance wasn't amazing by any means but given the amount of crappy and embarrassing football that we've had for a decade I'd say 19-20K is actually pretty darn good. Our alumni and students are wanting and begging to support our teams but when you look at things rationally exactly what incentive do they have?

Andrew · September 20, 2015

Random question, but do universities ever hire a passionate, loyal, alumni and fan for positions like AD or does it always go to someone who has some special degree or had years of "experience" somewhere else....

Got5onIt · September 20, 2015

Everything is in place for this University to have a successful athletic program: facilities, location, and a huge student body. It just needs the right leadership to take it to that next level. RV has done great things for UNT, but i think he's done all he can do. I look at RV like Dr. Pohl, they got this thing started. Now, we just need someone to finish it.

Ben Gooding · September 20, 2015

Toledo has a young and hungry coach that isn't afraid to lose the game for his team takes chances and his team plays to win rather than playing not to lose. We have a baby boomer that probably struggles to use simple functions in excel. We and Toledo do NOT have the same resources for said reason.

SilverEagle · September 20, 2015

On the drive back home from the game yesterday, I did some thinking about where we stand right now sitting at 0-2 with a tough game against Iowa next week.
i think the bottomline is I want to see us as a program reach our full potential. I realize we aren't one of the football palaces ie UT, LSU, State, A&M etc and probably never will be. I'm perfectly fine with that.
i look at a program like Toledo this year and what they have accomplished this season and feel like in the right circumstances with the right pieces in place we could be in a similar position. Hoe exciting it would be to beat an SEC team on the road and a Big 12 team in the same season?
i feel like we have many key pieces in place that Toledo does not have.
I know that many say that North Texas historically just hasn't been a good program. My response to them is, until Apogee opened in 2011 did we really support the program at a deserving level? I'm tired of the comparisons to the past. This is a new era -- one in which our expectations SHOULD be higher than they have ever been.
To summarize I just do not feel like we are getting the most out of the resources at our disposal. This leads me to wonder if the powers that be, the BOR, president and other high level donors and advisors feel similarly.
im interested in hearing other opinions on this.

In presenting historical information my goal is helping people understand our "DNA" for lack of a better term, and give them some insights about where our University's decision making process comes from. They can then (hopefully) know where to direct their expressions of "real" change regarding our athletic program. Families and systems have a similar habit of doing things in a familiar way, regardless of how outdated those "ways" are. For too long the minions (or the friends of the minions) of our past President(s) have hung on too long in decision making roles.

Hopefully our new President represents a complete change in our "old ways". Like DallasGreen says, keep those e-mails (and other forms of communication) going to our new President. It's our best hope for real change since we hired "Jitter" Nolan back in the early 70's.

James · September 20, 2015

Random question, but do universities ever hire a passionate, loyal, alumni and fan for positions like AD or does it always go to someone who has some special degree or had years of "experience" somewhere else....

Didn't UT just hire an alum for the interim AD? I believe he received his law degree from them. Anyways, if you could get a North Texas grad in there with a business degree that gave a damn about the university, things could happen. I hope.

Andrew · September 20, 2015

Didn't UT just hire an alum for the interim AD? I believe he received his law degree from them. Anyways, if you could get a North Texas grad in there with a business degree that gave a damn about the university, things could happen. I hope.

why do they even have to have a business degree? Not like I always agree with them but why not people like Ben Gooding or NT90? Business can be taught but you cannot teach passion!

greenit · September 20, 2015

:wow:

James · September 20, 2015

why do they even have to have a business degree? Not like I always agree with them but why not people like Ben Gooding or NT90? Business can be taught but you cannot teach passion!

it's doesn't exclusively have to be business and I assumed passion was a given. Just an example degree that UNT offers. We can bring in a music theory doctorate student as long as they can turn this sinking ship around while screaming Go Mean Green from the rooftops.

UNT 90 Grad · September 20, 2015

All those banking on support of students for Thurs. night game can kiss that good bye as most were gone by half time yesterday.

My bet is that if the sun at halftime was beating in the face of the alumni side and the students were in the shade like we were, the alumni side would have emptied out instead of the students.

I don't think we are getting the most out of our alumni resources. I think some would be shocked to see the comparison of the size of our alumni base vs the number of people the University employs to try to get/keep those alums engaged. But then again, if folks look at our current level of alum engagement, maybe it isn't shocking to them and just more of an explanation.

Edited September 20, 2015 by UNT 90 Grad

GreenTexan13 · September 20, 2015

North Texas needs to make changes. Clean out some of the house. 1 winning season in 10 years, is absolutely ridiculous. We have lost twice to a less then 10 year old UTSA program, skunked a fan base for a hyped up SMU game, basketball program lost the respect it used to have a few years ago, and we have to accept the fact that nothing will change because of our AD and coaching decisions.

Once these important changes will or can be made, I feel as though UNT can break this never ending curse.

GM1998 · September 20, 2015

I don't want to throw this season away, it is only week 3. We have losses to a much improved SMU team who gave a top 5 opponent fits last night and a Rice team that should have beaten a Texas team that is starting to find its identity. Next week isn't going to be easy, if it were Iowa would pay us the money to come to their place.

We looked better yesterday than we did against SMU. We have to look at the positive side of this. We may be competitive in league play. Right now there is just too much unknown. I am not happy, but I refuse to be despondent.

Don't be too hard on the students. UNT has never had rabid fans. Those aren't the people who attend UNT. They attend TAMU. If we win then we will see an increase in student participation/awareness. Students want to have fun, unload stress and make bad decisions. If you can recall, most of us were just like that.

However I do believe an increase in an athletic fee is warranted.

Don't claim Denton is disinterested. This town is a juggernaut waiting to be unleashed. But it will remain dormant until we win. No one puts time, effort and energy into a losing cause.

I would love an AD from UNT who has a marketing/sales background. We have an image problem. I don't know how to fix it, but I am sure there is someone out there who can!

Go Mean Green!

Andrew · September 20, 2015

it's doesn't exclusively have to be business and I assumed passion was a given. Just an example degree that UNT offers. We can bring in a music theory doctorate student as long as they can turn this sinking ship around while screaming Go Mean Green from the rooftops.

I would happily offer a young UNT alumni a two year deal and see what happens. I know a lot of people who would take half RVs salary and work hard and have passion. Just grab five people who have season tickets and just ask them.

ColoradoEagle · September 20, 2015

Honestly, my expectations (outside of some crazy moments) have always been to be competing for conference championships. Obviously that won't happen every year, but we should always be in the mix to win the conference in football and basketball. When we play teams like Iowa, Tennessee, Georgia, etc I want to take it down to the wire and even win once in a while.

What bothers me is we're actually further away from those goals today than when I started school back in '03. Outside of the perfect storm of '13, we've been nowhere near those goals for the past decade in football and ever since hiring Benford. RV is really bad at hiring coaches, and I've never been impressed with his staff hires either. In the off chance that he hires someone truly ambitious, I see them leave after a year or two of dealing with all of his hires that know working for the UNT AD is a job for life if you want it. No expectations, no consequences, no ambition. Makes it easier to understand why this school, Denton, DFW, and the majority of alumni are so apathetic about the Mean Green.

Edited September 20, 2015 by ColoradoEagle

Rudy · September 20, 2015

Didn't UT just hire an alum for the interim AD? I believe he received his law degree from them. Anyways, if you could get a North Texas grad in there with a business degree that gave a damn about the university, things could happen. I hope.

I know an alum who's career goals is to be an athletic director. He would happily take this job in a heartbeat.

Ben Gooding · September 20, 2015

Didn't UT just hire an alum for the interim AD? I believe he received his law degree from them. Anyways, if you could get a North Texas grad in there with a business degree that gave a damn about the university, things could happen. I hope.

I truly agree with this. We need green blood in the AD's office.

Mean_Green09 · September 20, 2015

If you hire the right coaches at a G5 level it won't take long to turn either the football or basketball programs around. Everything else will fall into place nicely. Again get the right guy leading the FB program and we will be fine. We don't have the right guys in place right now.

I wouldn't want an unexpierenced AD. We need a guy who knows what he is doing. A guy that could bring in a good HC. Now you can have alumni as an adviser.

If we hired a fan alumni with no experience it would be like hiring a high school coach.

Ben Gooding · September 20, 2015

Take RV's salary divide it by 3 and hire 3 young well versed alumni to get the ball rolling. I gurantee improvement would be absolutely inevitable. That would be bold and it would pay imo fast dividends.

GMG24 · September 20, 2015

Why was Phillip Montgomery not looked at? Look what he's done at Tulsa much like Morris. You MUST get young up and coming OFFENSIVE minded coaches in here. Until that day comes we will suck.

Cerebus · September 20, 2015

Toledo has a young and hungry coach that isn't afraid to lose the game for his team takes chances and his team plays to win rather than playing not to lose. We have a baby boomer that probably struggles to use simple functions in excel. We and Toledo do NOT have the same resources for said reason.

Of all your insane tangential diatribes this is by far the craziest. DO YOU THINK NICK SABAN IS HIP AND WITH "IT"?! Do you think he understands excel and reddit? He is older than Mac and we would be idiots not to take him because he is "too old."

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Now, talking about our expectations. I think there is no chance of us ever becoming a P5 school. In fact there are a several P5 schools who wont be in the future.

However, we should be the at the very, very top of the G5. That should be out goal. We should be disappointed in years we don't make bowl, and we should from time to time be gunning for the top 25.