head football coach

wardly · September 18, 2015

Since 1980 UNT has fired every head football coach that it hired. Brent Vito says its because it is "hard as hell" to win here.But why? I know I am an old man[72] , but I don't drool, and I still manage to find my way to Denton most football Saturdays. Has loosing become such a self full filling prophecy that we just accept it? However, that is a question for another time. Today I am asking you to stay focused and tell me why it is so hard to win at UNT as I just don't get it.

keith · September 18, 2015

It's not. It's just an easy lame excuse trotted out when coaches fail. It's like our offense, boring and predictable. At least be a little creative.

Edited September 18, 2015 by keith

Withers940 · September 18, 2015

I think its just because we have lacked a really good hire at head coach/ OC. I really like Coach Mac but he is very old school which isnt a bad thing at all but you have to evolve to out smart your opponent. I say we take that $1.25 Mil we just got and buy us some athletes....Just Kidding

MGNation92 · September 18, 2015

Since 1980 UNT has fired every head football coach that it hired. Brent Vito says its because it is "hard as hell" to win here.But why? I know I am an old man[72] , but I don't drool, and I still manage to find my way to Denton most football Saturdays. Has loosing become such a self full filling prophecy that we just accept it? However, that is a question for another time. Today I am asking you to stay focused and tell me why it is so hard to win at UNT as I just don't get it.

It's hard to win when the coaches in question try and minimize the opportunities to lose rather than maximize the opportunities to win. That's not to say that staying away from mistakes is a bad thing, but playing timid because of it certainly is, and more often than not leads to the downfall.

meanrob · September 18, 2015

Both Simon and Dickey were given difficult schedules but you could make the case they were fired for non-football related issues.

Dodge failed strictly on his own decisions.

Mac MAY be headed down that path.

If you have Apogee, are located in the state of Texas, play in a league of your peers (which we do) and still fail here you have to look in the mirror.

southsideguy · September 18, 2015

I don't think Fry was fired, but someone tell if I am wrong?

drex · September 18, 2015

Fry was not fired..he got the head coaching job at Iowa and took most of his assistants with him. The Iowa connection is how McCarney got to know Hayden.

wardly · September 18, 2015

No.Odus Mitchell retired in 1966,replaced by Rod Rust who was fired in 1972. Hayden Fry replaced him, moving to Iowa at the end of 1978. Jerry Moore was here for 2 seasons before leaving for Texas Tech at the end of 1980. Coach Moore got fired a few years later at Tech, but had a great career at 1aa Ap.State.

UNTexas · September 18, 2015

Since 1980 UNT has fired every head football coach that it hired. Brent Vito says its because it is "hard as hell" to win here.But why? I know I am an old man[72] , but I don't drool, and I still manage to find my way to Denton most football Saturdays. Has loosing become such a self full filling prophecy that we just accept it? However, that is a question for another time. Today I am asking you to stay focused and tell me why it is so hard to win at UNT as I just don't get it.

I think the problem has been pretty simple. Culture mixed with money. Not just the athletic department either. When I played for UNT the AD and coaches had similar complaints as today but I believe it was worse in the past. It's better now. Athletics were not even on the radar of the University in the past. They didn't care and saw it as a waste. The mentality was similar to a boss telling employees to do more with less and without the talent to do it. UNT use to have a lot of commuters. The students that were there were more inclined to sit in their apartments than go to a stadium crappier than their old high school and watch the team lose in front of a few thousand fans. It killed recruiting too and players didn't want to come play for a team with no support. Regardless of the coaches sales pitch.

Today, we have facilities. That's not an excuse. The students are coming out more than ever. People have started caring. No excuse. UNT isn't a commuter school at all and they want their school to win. Our president knows sports is important. Can he convince the rest of the decision makers to invest more money in football and basketball?

We lack money. Money for all coaches. Not just a head coach. Money to end the bodybag games and increase wins. Get a better schedule and recruits notice. On top of that, put together several winning seasons and the recruits will notice. Once that happens then perception changes and it all gets easier.

No one is going to care to come (to donate money, attract better players, or attract better coaches which takes money) here and win until the university itself decides it wants to invest into winning. Like all the big boys who beat our asses do...

Edited September 18, 2015 by UNTexas

97and03 · September 18, 2015

The OP said since 1980 folks. Reverse course down memory lane.

NorthTexan95 · September 18, 2015

The problem is that we've hired horrible coaches. Name one head coach we've had since Fry that has done anything else other than be an assistant somewhere else? In years past we paid horrible and had horrible facilities but those issues are now gone. When we do move on from Mac we'll be in the best position in our history to have great candidates AND actually be able to pay the best candidate.

Mac is following the same pattern he had at Iowa State ... win one season and fall back to rebuilding. I can see us winning 2 or 3 games this year and then next season we win 5 or 6 because our young team grows up a bit. I think there's a less than 10% chance he is not back next season because Mac does everything right except win. Academics, engaging students and fans ... hiring real college assistants ... engaging high school athletes via camps. I see no way he's not given at least one more season (not that I agree).

Travis · September 18, 2015

i would like to see a really good head D-1AA (or whatever they call it now) that is close to the region come in. You know, one of those coaches that really have done a lot more with less...

GM1998 · September 18, 2015

I think the problem has been pretty simple. Culture mixed with money. Not just the athletic department either. When I played for UNT the AD and coaches had similar complaints as today but I believe it was worse in the past. It's better now. Athletics were not even on the radar of the University in the past. They didn't care and saw it as a waste. The mentality was similar to a boss telling employees to do more with less and without the talent to do it. UNT use to have a lot of commuters. The students that were there were more inclined to sit in their apartments than go to a stadium crappier than their old high school and watch the team lose in front of a few thousand fans. It killed recruiting too and players didn't want to come play for a team with no support. Regardless of the coaches sales pitch.
Today, we have facilities. That's not an excuse. The students are coming out more than ever. People have started caring. No excuse. UNT isn't a commuter school at all and they want their school to win. Our president knows sports is important. Can he convince the rest of the decision makers to invest more money in football and basketball?
We lack money. Money for all coaches. Not just a head coach. Money to end the bodybag games and increase wins. Get a better schedule and recruits notice. On top of that, put together several winning seasons and the recruits will notice. Once that happens then perception changes and it all gets easier.
No one is going to care to come (to donate money, attract better players, or attract better coaches which takes money) here and win until the university itself decides it wants to invest into winning. Like all the big boys who beat our asses do...

When you accept mediocrity you get mediocrity. In 1994 when I arrived as a transfer student to UNT it seemed that we were trying to break apart from our peers at SHSU, SFA, and Southwest Texas State. There was a concerted effort to establish a new identity for the university. It appears we are still trying. At times I wonder if we were too bold or have we just been hindered by small minded people. The upgrade from Fouts to Appogee seemed to show an investment in our team, but without a financial investment in the entire coaching staff and leadership who will not stand for failure we will always be just one step ahead of our peers in the past.

We need money but it seems we don't have the deep pocket alumni like other schools. Moreover, we don't have anyone who is clever enough to come up with a crowd fund based donation system where a large group can almost take on the persona of a deep pockets alumni. I know the people on this forum do more than their part so I am preaching to the choir and lets face it; giving money to a losing program is like giving money to a junkie and thinking it is going to go to their recovery. It won't. If past behavior is an indicator than it will be wasted.

Go Mean Green, against all odds, beat Rice!

UNTexas · September 18, 2015

When you accept mediocrity you get mediocrity. In 1994 when I arrived as a transfer student to UNT it seemed that we were trying to break apart from our peers at SHSU, SFA, and Southwest Texas State. There was a concerted effort to establish a new identity for the university. It appears we are still trying. At times I wonder if we were too bold or have we just been hindered by small minded people. The upgrade from Fouts to Appogee seemed to show an investment in our team, but without a financial investment in the entire coaching staff and leadership who will not stand for failure we will always be just one step ahead of our peers in the past.
We need money but it seems we don't have the deep pocket alumni like other schools. Moreover, we don't have anyone who is clever enough to come up with a crowd fund based donation system where a large group can almost take on the persona of a deep pockets alumni. I know the people on this forum do more than their part so I am preaching to the choir and lets face it; giving money to a losing program is like giving money to a junkie and thinking it is going to go to their recovery. It won't. If past behavior is an indicator than it will be wasted.
Go Mean Green, against all odds, beat Rice!

I'd love nothing more than to see UNT ram the ball down Rice's throat. Pound them all day. Our team knows they shit the bed. If they do it again tomorrow we know what 2015 is. Win, and the sky is the limit.

UNT90 · September 18, 2015

Culture, Culture, Culture.

We have an AD that has been here 15 years now and has consistently put a miserable product on the field court.

And he is still here.

No matter who that AD is, what that tells everyone associated with UNT is that winning just isn't important to UNT as an institution.

And that, my friend, is the reason we don't win.

Got5onIt · September 19, 2015

It's a head scratcher that the past 35 years have been less than mediocre for football. However, there is one thing I do know and that's there is NO excuse for failing to win at UNT now. Better facilities, "better" conference, & better TV exposure for all FBS schools should yield something better than 1 winning season in the last 5.

mgfan · September 19, 2015

I believe most on here have a valid point and it is a combination of these points. Something needs to change fast. I had to convince my wife to buy season tickets this year and another losing season would be hard to justify renewing again. The luster of the 2013 season has worn off.

GMG_Dallas · September 19, 2015

We need money but it seems we don't have the deep pocket alumni like other schools. Moreover, we don't have anyone who is clever enough to come up with a crowd fund based donation system where a large group can almost take on the persona of a deep pockets alumni. I know the people on this forum do more than their part so I am preaching to the choir and lets face it; giving money to a losing program is like giving money to a junkie and thinking it is going to go to their recovery. It won't. If past behavior is an indicator than it will be wasted.
Go Mean Green, against all odds, beat Rice!

We don't have the deep pocket alumni? Brint Ryan of our BOR is considered one of the wealthiest men in Dallas by the Dallas Morning News, and having had known people who know him, I can tell you that's very well true. I heard estimates of his net worth to be around $750 million from some of those close to him. Norm Miller, who was the CEO of Interstate Batteries for many years and is now the chairman of the company went to UNT. We have Dr. Phil, Sam Moon (owner of Sam Moon stores), Wende Zomnir (co-owner of highly recognized make-up brand Urban Decay), Mean Joe Green, and the list goes on. We have deep pocket alumni. We have famous actors, musicians, and artists that I didn't feel like naming off. We have plenty of deep pocket alumni. None of which care enough about their old NTSU to help the athletic department enough to get us on track. Speaking of which, when do you hear of any of these people being connected to NTSU? If it weren't for some of these people being advertised on campus, you would never know they went to NTSU.

I don't have much to donate. I don't. But I would donate $10 here and there if I saw some of these wealthy men and women donate a bit more too. Speaking of which, this not a shot at those such as Brint Ryan who are still connected and actively donating to the school, this is a shot at those who can but don't.

With this kind of apathy from our deep pocketed alumni, an ongoing crowdfunding to stimulate the average Joe such as myself might not even do much but it honestly might be worth a shot...

Note: $10 might not seem like much, but if we take 300,000 UNT alumni and ask them to donate $10 per month or $120 per year, there's $36,000,000 we weren't getting before and I know we have more than 300,000 UNT alumni out there.

oldguystudent · September 19, 2015

Brint Ryan holds a suite in apogee, which I assure you cost more than $10 a month.

DallasGreen · September 19, 2015

A local Denton businessman just gave $1.2 million to athletics. It is amazing that people still believe. I do feel the administration now has a clue as to where athletics plays a major role. The true mystery to me is why the BOR fears the students. The alumni have nothing to be ashamed of as many have supported a really weak program for years with thousands of hard earned dollars. Many bad decisions have been made based on eternal hope. The decision to give a huge extension to McCarney is among the worst. I personally feel his credibility is gone both with the team and the fans. No one believes his ranting and outright lies anymore. Facilities, salaries, support, and administration support is better than it ever has been at UNT. It is frustrating that it still does not work, but I feel a younger coach with a hungry goal oriented staff can still pull it off. There has to be another Skip Holtz type out there!!

SilverEagle · September 19, 2015

Culture, Culture, Culture.
We have an AD that has been here 15 years now and has consistently put a miserable product on the field court.
And he is still here.
No matter who that AD is, what that tells everyone associated with UNT is that winning just isn't important to UNT as an institution.
And that, my friend, is the reason we don't win.

Well, for one thing, North Texas administrators didn't have to hire a head coach from about 1945 until about 1966. By the time they had to hire Odus Mitchell's replacement, they were pretty much out of practice and they didn't have a clue about how the landscape was changing......most notably the increase in spending and the need to fund raise. As I've mentioned here several times, fund raising of any sort.....but expecially athletics, was pretty much forbidden by the President (J.C. Matthews). By the time we got a President in place (C.C. "Jitter" Nolan) and a AD/Coach (Hayden Fry) who understood what needed to happen we were already about a decade behind. Hayden did amazing things while he was here, and so did Nolan, but I suspect that they were always fighting an uphill battle against the minions of Matthews.

When Fry left, because he got a great deal and unfettered control of his program, Nolan was shortly thereafter run out of town by the aforementioned minions of this party animal...........http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth61037/m1/34/?q=Dr. Matthews.

They then proceeded to try and return the program to the 50/ 60's when the football program operated within a certain budget and fund raising was not given a priority........especially for athletics. Since then, decisions about athletics have been made by one clueless administrator and/or committee, after another.

HoustonEagle · September 19, 2015

I think the problem has been pretty simple. Culture mixed with money. Not just the athletic department either. When I played for UNT the AD and coaches had similar complaints as today but I believe it was worse in the past. It's better now. Athletics were not even on the radar of the University in the past. They didn't care and saw it as a waste. The mentality was similar to a boss telling employees to do more with less and without the talent to do it. UNT use to have a lot of commuters. The students that were there were more inclined to sit in their apartments than go to a stadium crappier than their old high school and watch the team lose in front of a few thousand fans. It killed recruiting too and players didn't want to come play for a team with no support. Regardless of the coaches sales pitch.
Today, we have facilities. That's not an excuse. The students are coming out more than ever. People have started caring. No excuse. UNT isn't a commuter school at all and they want their school to win. Our president knows sports is important. Can he convince the rest of the decision makers to invest more money in football and basketball?
We lack money. Money for all coaches. Not just a head coach. Money to end the bodybag games and increase wins. Get a better schedule and recruits notice. On top of that, put together several winning seasons and the recruits will notice. Once that happens then perception changes and it all gets easier.
No one is going to care to come (to donate money, attract better players, or attract better coaches which takes money) here and win until the university itself decides it wants to invest into winning. Like all the big boys who beat our asses do...

well said

Edited September 19, 2015 by HoustonEagle

James329 · September 19, 2015

Whew...here we go.

UNTexas and UNT90 have made great points, so to elaborate...

1) It starts at the top - the BOR and presidents have not made athletics a priority or accountable when it relates to being a legit successful athletic program.

2) Culture A - My apologies to our heroic long lasting faithful fans. This might be the biggest problem. You are what you are. Changing perception is difficult. It has been an easier transition for start-up programs. This also breeds a lack of accountability. We don't have the history of an SMU, which is all they can hang their hat on, but they have it.

3) Culture B - the student body. While it has improved, it is more indicative of school spirit, which is great. But this university does not attract sports fans. No offense, and I know I'll catch hell for this, but those students choose other schools, or go to UNT and have their "real" team. So most of them aren't invested. It's social. Most bitch about paying anythin toward athletics. Sure I'll go to free games and cheer, but when I graduate I won't pay, care, support athletics.

4) Financially - I am surprised and thankful for the donors we have and the money they are willing to spend on athletics. We would be fcs in Fouts without them. But it doesn't match other programs. We are mid-cusa financially. Money isn't everything, and we should be better than what we have based on our facilities, etc., but it's not a situation that puts us over the top. Season tickets and mean green club reflect this. I am not, however, excusing blame from the sub par athletic department.

5) College Town - don't get me wrong, I love Denton. I chose to stay, and commute for work. But this is not a traditional college town that revolves around athletics. It's an artsy town close to a major market. This isn't conducive to creating a large athletics following. We have to compete with a lot of local sports. Lubbock sucks, but tech sports is the only thing for days.

6) Coaching? - When you work your way through all that, you can get to coaching. Dan is just as delusional as he is about his success as he is about the 37k students here. It's an insane number, but it's just a number. It's potential. Maybe. He has his faults, no doubt. But everything has to be weighed accordingly. How would Franchione be doing here is a more fair question. (Better? Probably?)Yall know I'm no Dan fan, but this is about it all. Todd Dodge was a huge failure here, but I always thought that kind of move is what we need to move up. It seems like smu has done it. But we don't have those pockets, and needed Mac to restart the program from scratch.

I know yall will probably hate this, but I love my alma mater and I'm an unwavering fan, just trying to be honest, not belittle the support most on this site exude.

Edited September 19, 2015 by James329

TheWestie · September 19, 2015

Brint Ryan is only like 51. I think we still have a while to go before/if he becomes out Joe Jamail.

Since one of our other richest alums wants nothing to do with us anymore.

MeanMag · September 19, 2015

Culture, Culture, Culture.
We have an AD that has been here 15 years now and has consistently put a miserable product on the field court.
And he is still here.
No matter who that AD is, what that tells everyone associated with UNT is that winning just isn't important to UNT as an institution.
And that, my friend, is the reason we don't win.

There have been 5 different presidents of the university in our 1 athletic director's tenure.