Irving is crazy!

oldguystudent · September 18, 2015

Interesting to me that many internet posts I read are oft times about the good ole' days when the school principal would catch good ole' Billy Joe with a shotgun in the bed of his pickup in the school parking lot, then say, "Hold on! Let me go get mine! You gotta see this!"

Ahmed brings a clock with some wires to school, and we jump to justify the overreaction.

Doesn't the truth, or rather the ideal, lie, as always, somewhere in the middle?

What kind of future generation are we building? We need to have trust and faith in our first responders, not fear and cynicism. Brute force against a 14-year-old kid who isn't brandishing a weapon in a classroom creates an ever widening divide between the general populace and the authorities.

I hope this kid accepts his TAMS invitation. I told my daughter about that. She responded, "So all I have to do is throw some wires in a suitcase, suffer through a half hour of handcuffs, and I'm in TAMS? My god! It was a clock! That's not even impressive! What, did he invent time?"

VideoEagle · September 18, 2015

Nice editorial in the Morning News titled "And this is America" about how a bad situation turned very positive for this young Texan. It has a different, not nearly as interesting, headline in the on line version, but same text. This young Texan has a bright future as a result of trying to impress his teacher. Looks like trying to do better can still get you ahead!

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20150917-editorial-for-ahmed-mohamed-the-clock-that-launched-a-thousand-opportunities.ece

KRAM1 · September 18, 2015

Interesting to me that many internet posts I read are oft times about the good ole' days when the school principal would catch good ole' Billy Joe with a shotgun in the bed of his pickup in the school parking lot, then say, "Hold on! Let me go get mine! You gotta see this!"
Ahmed brings a clock with some wires to school, and we jump to justify the overreaction.
Doesn't the truth, or rather the ideal, lie, as always, somewhere in the middle?
What kind of future generation are we building? We need to have trust and faith in our first responders, not fear and cynicism. Brute force against a 14-year-old kid who isn't brandishing a weapon in a classroom creates an ever widening divide between the general populace and the authorities.
I hope this kid accepts his TAMS invitation. I told my daughter about that. She responded, "So all I have to do is throw some wires in a suitcase, suffer through a half hour of handcuffs, and I'm in TAMS? My god! It was a clock! That's not even impressive! What, did he invent time?"

Simply a sign of the times we live in. Nothing more...nothing less. I too, hope he gets into TAMS. He seems to be a TAMS sort of kid. But, your daughter has a very good point as well. The only bit of overreaction I see is the handcuffs and parading him down the hall for all to see. That was plain silly. Anyone here think a skinny unarmed 14 year old nerdy kid is going to be able to "escape" being detained by school officials in the office until it can all be sorted out? The rest....thanks for acting to protect the safety of all in that school, and here's hoping the backlash these folks are getting does not make them hesitant to act if, God forbid, some idiot has other thoughts in mind rather than a science project the next time. I dare say all parents hope school officials act to protect their students without thought of media and public backlash after the fact....arm chair quarterbacking is easy and done from the safety of ones home usually. Bottom line here.....lessons learned by all parties I suspect. Thankfully, all those lessons learned did not come after another disaster in one of our schools.

MeanGreenTexan · September 18, 2015

Simply a sign of the times we live in. Nothing more...nothing less. I too, hope he gets into TAMS. He seems to be a TAMS sort of kid. But, your daughter has a very good point as well. The only bit of overreaction I see is the handcuffs and parading him down the hall for all to see. That was plain silly. Anyone here think a skinny unarmed 14 year old nerdy kid is going to be able to "escape" being detained by school officials in the office until it can all be sorted out? The rest....thanks for acting to protect the safety of all in that school, and here's hoping the backlash these folks are getting does not make them hesitant to act if, God forbid, some idiot has other thoughts in mind rather than a science project the next time. I dare say all parents hope school officials act to protect their students without thought of media and public backlash after the fact....arm chair quarterbacking is easy and done from the safety of ones home usually. Bottom line here.....lessons learned by all parties I suspect. Thankfully, all those lessons learned did not come after another disaster in one of our schools.

I think the handcuffing was probably embarrassing to the kid, and as you're saying, completely unnecessary, but the police questioning him without his guardians present was against the law. The school threatening him with expulsion/suspension if he did not admit it was something other than a bomb was also wrong.

What sucks is that the family is already lawyering up to sue the school district and the PD/city. If he wins, I'm assuming he'll get quite the payday. Heck, he probably deserves it.
However, I hope it's underwritten by insurance (which I bet, just like with any other insurance, the premiums will skyrocket after a payout), otherwise the ones who suffer are not the school administration or teachers, but the rest of the entire student body of the Irving ISD. Elementary school kids having nothing to do with this situation at all having their school's funding cut in order to balance the budget after paying out for this mistake.

It's sad.

The kid has already won. He's got millions of people rooting for him. He's been invited to the White House, Facebook & Google Headquarters, and a full-ride scholarship to TAMS if he can get in.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 18, 2015

Any one here have any kids or grandkids attending that school? Or perhaps a spouse or parent working at the school?
Didn't think so.

I went to that school, where were you?

Cerebus · September 18, 2015

Using this same logic, Internet idiots should demand the Milwaukee PD be investigated for letting Jeffrey Dahmer kill all those people. I mean, how could they NOT know. After all, he had all those bodies in his apartment!!

LOL. Literally, I burst out laughing at my computer when I read this.

The Milwaukee PD DID RIGHTFULLY take a ton of heat for Dahmer.

In May 1991 Dahmer tricked a 14 year old boy into coming to his house. After drugging him, he drilled a hole in his head and poured muriatic acid onto his brain in an attempt to make him a sex slave zombie. After sexually torturing him for a bit Dahmer then went out to a bar. The victim was able to escape out into the street where Dahmer chased him down and began to drag him back into the house.

Three young women in an another apartment saw the victim struggling to against Dahmer and went out to help. Two stayed with the while one went to call 911. By the time police arrived all three where fighting Dahmer to keep him away from the victim. The cops looked at the situation and decided to let Dahmer take him back to his apartment. They went to apartment, smelled a strong smell, "looked around" and then went home. They probably didn't look around, I'll explain below.

What the cops did wrong:

Found a 14 year old boy with a drill hole in his head, and cuts and bruises all over his body, and handed him back to the a 31 year old man while three women reported the victim had attempted to fight off Dahmer, and later reported that the victim had tried to fight off going to Dahmer as the cops forced him to.
Did not go into the apartment, where they would have found:
The source of the smell, the decomposing body of Dahmer's 12th victim, Tony Hughes, layout out in the open in his bedroom,
the body parts of previous victims, in his fridge,
Polaroids of several other of his victims, laid out in the open on his coffee table.
In addition, they never ran a background check on Dahmer, which would have found he was a convicted child sex offender.

When Dahmer was finally arrested four months later, this what the found in his apartment with a real search

74 Polaroids of Dahmer dismembering his victims,
four severed heads in the fridge,
seven painted and bleached skulls (including those of the 14 year old victim and of Tony Hughes),
Two preserved human hearts,
a torso and bags full of various body parts in his freezer,
two entire skeletons,
one pair of severed hands,
two preserved penises,
and in the 55 gallon drum in his bedroom, an additional three torsos.

The majority of the above where all in the apartment on the day the original officers "looked around." So yes, they rightfully caught heat.

Harry · September 18, 2015

Arresting him was just stupid. Overkill. Dumb. Heads should roll for that.

However, I saw a picture of the "clock" on the news yesterday and to my eyes that did not look like a clock.

I think this kid and his family will more than be reimbursed for their troubles on this situation as he will meet Obama, get free rides to the top schools in the country... heck Mark Zuckerbeg wants to meet him. Things have a way of working out.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 18, 2015

LOL. Literally, I burst out laughing at my computer when I read this.
The Milwaukee PD DID RIGHTFULLY take a ton of heat for Dahmer.

In May 1991 Dahmer tricked a 14 year old boy into coming to his house. After drugging him, he drilled a hole in his head and poured muriatic acid onto his brain in an attempt to make him a sex slave zombie. After sexually torturing him for a bit Dahmer then went out to a bar. The victim was able to escape out into the street where Dahmer chased him down and began to drag him back into the house.
Three young women in an another apartment saw the victim struggling to against Dahmer and went out to help. Two stayed with the while one went to call 911. By the time police arrived all three where fighting Dahmer to keep him away from the victim. The cops looked at the situation and decided to let Dahmer take him back to his apartment. They went to apartment, smelled a strong smell, "looked around" and then went home. They probably didn't look around, I'll explain below.
What the cops did wrong:
Found a 14 year old boy with a drill hole in his head, and cuts and bruises all over his body, and handed him back to the a 31 year old man while three women reported the victim had attempted to fight off Dahmer, and later reported that the victim had tried to fight off going to Dahmer as the cops forced him to.
Did not go into the apartment, where they would have found:
The source of the smell, the decomposing body of Dahmer's 12th victim, Tony Hughes, layout out in the open in his bedroom,
the body parts of previous victims, in his fridge,
Polaroids of several other of his victims, laid out in the open on his coffee table.
In addition, they never ran a background check on Dahmer, which would have found he was a convicted child sex offender.

When Dahmer was finally arrested four months later, this what the found in his apartment with a real search
74 Polaroids of Dahmer dismembering his victims,
four severed heads in the fridge,
seven painted and bleached skulls (including those of the 14 year old victim and of Tony Hughes),
Two preserved human hearts,
a torso and bags full of various body parts in his freezer,
two entire skeletons,
one pair of severed hands,
two preserved penises,
and in the 55 gallon drum in his bedroom, an additional three torsos.

The majority of the above where all in the apartment on the day the original officers "looked around." So yes, they rightfully caught heat.

A big part of it was that Dahmer was the only white guy in a primarily black apartment building. The cops didn't believe the black women and let Dahmer take the young man you mention back to his apartment. That was always the most disturbing story from the Dahmer saga to me.

meangreendork · September 18, 2015

I notice Gov. Abbott thinks the police appear to have overreacted. "The last thing we want to do is put handcuffs on a kid unjustifiably."

He is right. The school did OK by alerting the police to what was in the eye of the English teacher, "a suspicious device." The PD did the right thing by showing up, pulling Ahmed out of class and asking him about it. To the average person, the clock in the pencil case looked like a bomb out of a movie. But aside from getting him and the clock, the school and PD botched everything after.

- the interrogation and how it was done
- asking him about his surname
- the public arrest
- not checking with the Engineering teacher
- "I figured this would be the kid" (according to Ahmed)
- badgering him about further purposes of the clock (which is pretty much an accusation)
- trying to figure out if they were going to charge him with a crime.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 18, 2015

He is right. The school did OK by alerting the police to what was in the eye of the English teacher, "a suspicious device." The PD did the right thing by showing up, pulling Ahmed out of class and asking him about it. To the average person, the clock in the pencil case looked like a bomb out of a movie. But aside from getting him and the clock, the school and PD botched everything after.
- the interrogation and how it was done
- asking him about his surname- the public arrest
- not checking with the Engineering teacher
- "I figured this would be the kid" (according to Ahmed)
- badgering him about further purposes of the clock (which is pretty much an accusation)- trying to figure out if they were going to charge him with a crime.

All while shooting themselves in the foot by not calling a bomb squad or evacuating if they thought it was a real bomb or indicating that he was implying it was a bomb in order to make an arrest for a bomb hoax. To pile on to it, they refuse to apologize for their mistake after a PR nightmare. Dropping the charges is saying "we made a mistake, he is not guilty of this crime." Apologize and this might have been a little bit better.

VideoEagle · September 18, 2015

Arresting him was just stupid. Overkill. Dumb. Heads should roll for that.
However, I saw a picture of the "clock" on the news yesterday and to my eyes that did not look like a clock.
I think this kid and his family will more than be reimbursed for their troubles on this situation as he will meet Obama, get free rides to the top schools in the country... heck Mark Zuckerbeg wants to meet him. Things have a way of working out.

I keep seeing memes with Ahmed's clock and a real suitcase bomb side by side. But they don't mention scale at all. Below is the image from the Amazon listing for Ahmed's pencil box. It's smaller than an iPad! And the suitcase bomb shown in the memes is a full sized, must be checked luggage, suitcase. More importantly, the Irving police almost immediately recognized it was not a bomb. But for some unknown reason, they wouldn't believe that is was just a homemade digital clock.

And the Irving police know they overreacted. Last night the Chief of the Irving police said in an interview, "We are clearly going to review this... what happened then, happened then. I can't really change anything there. Now what I want to do is make sure we have an opportunity to learn and improve." The chief can't change what happened but he can learn and make sure it doesn't happen again! That sounds very reasonable.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 18, 2015

They should learn from this. I can say from experience at the school that the school police generally have very little to do and tend to get overzealous when they see action. Police are stationed at every high school in Irving after a shooting occurred at another Irving high school, Nimitz. This has lead to normally school disciplined actions turning into criminal investigations and non-Mirandized interrogations of students who don't know any better. This is a nationwide problem but I have experience with it directly at MacArthur. I loved the school and don't believe this was racially motivated (Irving is extremely diverse, students and teachers), but the school police officers and those who responded definitely need to review their procedures.

UNT90 · September 18, 2015

LOL. Literally, I burst out laughing at my computer when I read this.
The Milwaukee PD DID RIGHTFULLY take a ton of heat for Dahmer.

In May 1991 Dahmer tricked a 14 year old boy into coming to his house. After drugging him, he drilled a hole in his head and poured muriatic acid onto his brain in an attempt to make him a sex slave zombie. After sexually torturing him for a bit Dahmer then went out to a bar. The victim was able to escape out into the street where Dahmer chased him down and began to drag him back into the house.
Three young women in an another apartment saw the victim struggling to against Dahmer and went out to help. Two stayed with the while one went to call 911. By the time police arrived all three where fighting Dahmer to keep him away from the victim. The cops looked at the situation and decided to let Dahmer take him back to his apartment. They went to apartment, smelled a strong smell, "looked around" and then went home. They probably didn't look around, I'll explain below.
What the cops did wrong:
Found a 14 year old boy with a drill hole in his head, and cuts and bruises all over his body, and handed him back to the a 31 year old man while three women reported the victim had attempted to fight off Dahmer, and later reported that the victim had tried to fight off going to Dahmer as the cops forced him to.
Did not go into the apartment, where they would have found:
The source of the smell, the decomposing body of Dahmer's 12th victim, Tony Hughes, layout out in the open in his bedroom,
the body parts of previous victims, in his fridge,
Polaroids of several other of his victims, laid out in the open on his coffee table.
In addition, they never ran a background check on Dahmer, which would have found he was a convicted child sex offender.

When Dahmer was finally arrested four months later, this what the found in his apartment with a real search
74 Polaroids of Dahmer dismembering his victims,
four severed heads in the fridge,
seven painted and bleached skulls (including those of the 14 year old victim and of Tony Hughes),
Two preserved human hearts,
a torso and bags full of various body parts in his freezer,
two entire skeletons,
one pair of severed hands,
two preserved penises,
and in the 55 gallon drum in his bedroom, an additional three torsos.

The majority of the above where all in the apartment on the day the original officers "looked around." So yes, they rightfully caught heat.

so let me get this straight.

You wanted the police to do a warrantless search of Dahmer's apartment without probable cause or exigent circumstances.

Got it.

The officers mistakenly believed (well, kinda) Dahmer was in a homosexual relationship with his victim, which is why they released him to Dahmer.

I was hoping someone would bite on this. I well aware of the circumstances surrounding this case, which is why I used it as an example. Knowing what Dahmer is, it's very easy to fault the PATROL OFFICERS (not trained homicide detectives) for not finding something they had no clue existed. As they say, hindsight is absolutely 20/20.

Edited September 18, 2015 by UNT90

ChristopherRyanWilkes · September 18, 2015

so let me get this straight.
You wanted the police to do a warrantless search of Dahmer's apartment without probable cause or exigent circumstances.
Got it.
The officers mistakenly believed (well, kinda) Dahmer was in a homosexual relationship with his victim, which is why they released him to Dahmer.
I was hoping someone would bite on this. I well aware of the circumstances surrounding this case, which is why I used it as an example. Knowing what Dahmer is, it's very easy to fault the PATROL OFFICERS (not trained homicide detectives) for not finding something they had no clue existed. As they say, hindsight is absolutely 20/20.

Hard for me to believe they couldn't tell it was a 14 year old boy. The whole thing doesn't add up. Glad this thread has turned into Dahmer talk, I'm down. My Dahmer knowledge game is on point.

Edited September 18, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

Quoner · September 18, 2015

I was hoping someone would bite on this.

What a sad sentence.

Coffee and TV · September 18, 2015

without probable cause or exigent circumstances.

Why it's pointless to even bother addressing anything UNT90 posts.

Censored by Laurie · September 18, 2015

What a sad sentence.

when he realizes his mistake I bet he'll want to put a foot in his mouth

Cerebus · September 18, 2015

You wanted the police to do a warrantless search of Dahmer's apartment without probable cause or exigent circumstances.

So let me sort out your thinking:

NOT Probable Causes (According to UNT90)

Bleeding 14 year old with a hole in his head that resisted being taken by a 31 year old male.
Three women who said they saw the physical resistance.
The 14 year old make himself physically struggling to NOT be given back to the 31 year old male.
I left this out earlier: The 31 year old male's explanation was that this was a lovers spat, and that the 14 year old was his lover.
The stench of decomposing flesh from the 31 year old males apartment.
The fact the 31 year old that the 14 year old resisted going back with was a registered sex offender, of underage boys.

Probable Causes (According to UNT90)

Kid with a pencil case that had wires sticking out of it, at an engineering school.
Lady who asked why she had to put out a cigarette in her own car.

That about sum it up?

Edited September 18, 2015 by Cerebus

Censored by Laurie · September 18, 2015

probably

That about sum it up?

probably(?)

Cerebus · September 18, 2015

probably
probably(?)

Censored by Laurie · September 18, 2015

UNT90 · September 18, 2015

So let me sort out your thinking:
NOT Probable Causes (According to UNT90)
Bleeding 14 year old with a hole in his head that resisted being taken by a 31 year old male.
Three women who said they saw the physical resistance.
The 14 year old make himself physically struggling to NOT be given back to the 31 year old male.
I left this out earlier: The 31 year old male's explanation was that this was a lovers spat, and that the 14 year old was his lover.
The stench of decomposing flesh from the 31 year old males apartment.
The fact the 31 year old that the 14 year old resisted going back with was a registered sex offender, of underage boys.

Probable Causes (According to UNT90)
Kid with a pencil case that had wires sticking out of it, at an engineering school.
Lady who asked why she had to put out a cigarette in her own car.

That about sum it up?

The problem is that you, and many others on here have no clue what probable cause is.

First, you again use hindsight by stating "14 year old male" like it is a fact that the officers knew he was 14 when they released him. They didn't. Again, you use hindsight to blame. He also didn't tell the officers he had been abducted. Why? Who knows. Probably scared of Dahmer. Most likely drugged (which the officers could have mistaken for self induced intoxication). Should the officers have been aware enough to sense something was wrong? I don't know. You don't either. BECAUSE WE WERE NOT THERE. As to the stench in Dahmer's apartment, many apartments in that area of Milwuakee were filthy. Putting "I smelled a dead human" in a search warrant affidavit is laughable.

What you have here is officers who believed that had stumbled onto a gay lovers quarrel. Because of that belief, they allowed Dahmer to take control of someone they clearly didn't know was a minor.

Or...

They willfully ignored a serial killer because... They were lazy? Police are bad?

I mean which option really makes more sense...

Edited September 18, 2015 by UNT90

Censored by Laurie · September 18, 2015

I'd like to suggest a new GMG.com game...it's called "Let's Pick One Totally Out-of-Context Portion of a UNT90 Rant as Our Favorite" (working title...a bit cumbersome, I know)

here's mine:

many apartments in that area of Milwuakee were filthy.

Cerebus · September 18, 2015

The problem is that you, and many others on here have no clue what probable cause is.

Fine. Forget he is 14. He was naked, with a hole in his head, cover it bruises and cuts. Not only did the three women report that he had resisted going with Dahmer and cowered behind them, he also resisted the police when they tried to hand him over Dahmer. I guess he was lucky not to get shot by them. I don't care if he was 85. Forcing him back to Dahmer was a huge mistake. Taking them both back to the house, the other person resisting the whole way, then noticing a terrible odor? Another miss. Not to mention all of the above is enough to see do a background check and see that he is a registered sex offender.

You asked why he didn't talk? He probably no longer could. He was unable to speak and was drooling. Why? He had a hole drilled in his head. Head-wounds bleed. His hair was matted in dried blood, he was covered in dried blood. He was also freshly bleeding. All three women demanded to know why he was covered in blood and the cops told them to go away.

I just can't see where handing over a naked bleeding person over to someone who they do not want to go with, who multiple witnesses reported was trying to escape from them, into a house that smelled like a decomposing body is not a monumental screw up.

Also if "BECAUSE WE WERE NOT THERE" is a valid defense, you had better stop complaining about RV, because you where not there when he was negotiating those five year contracts or those OOC games with Tulsa and NAU.

I'd like to suggest a new GMG.com game...it's called "Let's Pick One Totally Out-of-Context Portion of a UNT90 Rant as Our Favorite" (working title...a bit cumbersome, I know)

It's funny that he constantly harps on KRAM for refusing to admit he is wrong in the face of mountains of evidence then does the same thing. Has anyone ever seen UNT90 and KRAM in the same room at the same time?

Edited September 18, 2015 by Cerebus

VideoEagle · September 18, 2015

It's funny that he constantly harps on KRAM for refusing to admit he is wrong in the face of mountains of evidence then does the same thing. Has anyone ever seen UNT90 and KRAM in the same room at the same time?

You mean like a wrestling cage match?