What happens if

UNT90 · September 15, 2015

UNT wins 3 or less games this football season and then wins 14 or less games this basketball season.

Does Rick Villerreal final face any form of consequence? Who does UNT Fire? Mac? Benford? Both?

This is the scenerio staring this university president dead in the face.

What should happen is all three should be let go. Clean slate for the new AD to bring in his guys to transform the two biggest sports in a morbid athletic program.

Does the will exist at this university do even contemplate such an endeavor?

Army of Dad · September 15, 2015

In that scenario then why not "just" RV and Benford?

That would allow the new AD to hire his MBB coach (and let's be honest, RV's hiring track record isn't great so we wouldn't want to saddle the new AD with another one of his hires).

After paying two buyouts Mac is safe for now, but a new AD might inspire him to coach as if his job is on the line.

All hypothetical and it isn't like I have the money to influence it unless the lottery commission finally gets those numbers right.

UNT90 · September 15, 2015

In your scenerio, new AD could dictate the next OC hire and order Mac to have NOTHING to do with the offense. That may help some things.

Green Mean · September 15, 2015

Jub was just talking about the game and his experience on Saturday and no mention of how bad NT looked and any criticism to the offense and Mac.

oldguystudent · September 15, 2015

Jub was just talking about the game and his experience on Saturday and no mention of how bad NT looked and any criticism to the offense and Mac.

You will never hear such things from him. Ever. He's not that guy. It was all unicorns and rainbows from 2007-2010. He wouldn't utter a single critical word.

DeepGreen · September 15, 2015

Clean house as much as you can. RV and Benford for sure. Bring in a new AD that can(hopefully) energize the fan base. That person is out there. Other programs have done it, so can we. With luck, McCarney will retire on his own before his contract expires.

UNTFan23 · September 15, 2015

You will never hear such things from him. Ever. He's not that guy. It was all unicorns and rainbows from 2007-2010. He wouldn't utter a single critical word.

He still works for the media and can't burn any bridges. He's gotten the HC for football to call into the Ticket a couple times. He does a lot for this university when a lot of alums in similar positions don't.

golfingomez · September 15, 2015

In that scenario then why not "just" RV and Benford?
That would allow the new AD to hire his MBB coach (and let's be honest, RV's hiring track record isn't great so we wouldn't want to saddle the new AD with another one of his hires).
After paying two buyouts Mac is safe for now, but a new AD might inspire him to coach as if his job is on the line.

All hypothetical and it isn't like I have the money to influence it unless the lottery commission finally gets those numbers right.

i thought Benny was in his final year of his contract... would he have a buyout?

oldguystudent · September 15, 2015

He still works for the media and can't burn any bridges. He's gotten the HC for football to call into the Ticket a couple times. He does a lot for this university when a lot of alums in similar positions don't.

I didn't mean that as a criticism of him at all. I understand the position he's in and appreciate what he does.

UNT90 · September 15, 2015

He still works for the media and can't burn any bridges. He's gotten the HC for football to call into the Ticket a couple times. He does a lot for this university when a lot of alums in similar positions don't.

and he has a direct line to the president's office. Why would he ever criticize publicly?

I saw him in the stands. He was as frustrated as every other UNT fan.

Army of Dad · September 15, 2015

i thought Benny was in his final year of his contract... would he have a buyout?

He has two left on his deal. He will presumably be fired during/after this season so we only have to buy out one year.

untbowler · September 15, 2015

if this scenario goes down, I see RV being canned before the start of the new year or at least forced into retirement.

If he somehow survives into 2016 and Benford sinks again, he is for sure gone as Benford should be as well.

As for DMac he will probably not renew Canales and have his excuse to blame someone else other than his archaic game planning and coaching style

Cerebus · September 15, 2015

I think that if, IF, the president is swamped with complaints about the AD he will take it upon himself to raise the money to buyout that contract. A new AD could would then be tasked with first and foremost increasing giving and membership in the MGC and football season tickets.

After the money flow is improved, the new AD could focus on improving coaching.

I know that isn't what some of you want to hear, but that is the best possible scenario I see as even being a possibility. There is no way for the BOR to raise money quickly. State law prohibits us from using tuition or non athletic fee money on athletics. The best the BOR can do is raise the athletics fee every year by the largest amount that does not require a student vote, which I think is currently $1.

The only short term solution is for Smatresk to raise the AD buyout amount, which is around $1.1 million. Benfords contract runs though 16-17 and would require us to payout $350k a year. Mac's contract runs through 2019 and requires a buout of $600k-725k a year.

flyonthewall · September 15, 2015

Who is the president going to ask for this money? The problem that you have is that all of the big money athletics donors, and I mean all of them, have been cultivated by R.V. They are working to fix the development department, but it has been so inept over the last 15 years that there is nobody giving money to athletics that Rick has not brought in to the fold. Who you gonna call, Mattress Mac? He is gone down the road. And And And, R.V. has been quietly raising a crap load of money the past 6 months. Game changing money.

Other than mac and benford winning somehow. The best you can hope does not include "buying out Ricks contract". This is not a RV homer talking. I am just stating facts.

GOMG2013 · September 15, 2015

In your scenerio, new AD could dictate the next OC hire and order Mac to have NOTHING to do with the offense. That may help some things.

Mac is not the problem with the offense. Its like beating a dead horse on here. True, he is conservative, but that is the only thing a person can really say.

Mac is not calling plays. He is not going out looking at QB recruits, he is not designing offenses. Mac is a spokesperson and face for the team. He gives speeches, talks to the media, and sets the tone and atmosphere for the program.

There are hands on coaches in college that calls plays. Sumlin is involved in the offense at AnM. He is not calling defensive plays.

I know some people on here thinks if Chico is allowed to do whatever, it will be better. He is the main problem. Mac is also at fault for not doing something about chico. Only positive people on here has about chico is the short time he was interim coach in the sunbelt and he had an NFL caliber rb running wild in those games. I guess chico "coached him up"? Get outta here with that...

QB, WR, RB is below average. And if yall truly think a one eyed, grey goose drinking, old man with health problems is breaking down film and evaluating talent, then you arent paying attention.

Not saying he shouldn't be fired. You can replace him with a coach that can go out and recruit and call plays. But the offense is on chico. No doubt.

UNT90 · September 15, 2015

Mac is not the problem with the offense. Its like beating a dead horse on here. True, he is conservative, but that is the only thing a person can really say.
Mac is not calling plays. He is not going out looking at QB recruits, he is not designing offenses. Mac is a spokesperson and face for the team. He gives speeches, talks to the media, and sets the tone and atmosphere for the program.
There are hands on coaches in college that calls plays. Sumlin is involved in the offense at AnM. He is not calling defensive plays.
I know some people on here thinks if Chico is allowed to do whatever, it will be better. He is the main problem. Mac is also at fault for not doing something about chico. Only positive people on here has about chico is the short time he was interim coach in the sunbelt and he had an NFL caliber rb running wild in those games. I guess chico "coached him up"? Get outta here with that...
QB, WR, RB is below average. And if yall truly think a one eyed, grey goose drinking, old man with health problems is breaking down film and evaluating talent, then you arent paying attention.
Not saying he shouldn't be fired. You can replace him with a coach that can go out and recruit and call plays. But the offense is on chico. No doubt.

which is why I said a NEW OC in the post you quoted...

GOMG2013 · September 15, 2015

which is why I said a NEW OC in the post you quoted...

my point is mac already has nothing to do with the offense...probably nothing to do with the defense too. Looks like Cosh is allowed to do things differently...even Caralla is allowed to do things his way and immediately came in and made changes. Patrick came in and was allowed to do things his way.

Dont know why people think chico is handcuffed. Now mcnulty starting may be on Mac because of Chico's multiple failures with berklund, dajon, means, and greer.

Withers940 · September 15, 2015

A good question is, If this trifecta happens to come into fruition, how much would UNT drop on their new hires??? Each???

What if Coach Bro out at Tech gets Fired?? Would that be a worth while hire for NORTH TEXAS?

Cerebus · September 15, 2015

Who is the president going to ask for this money?

You, and other people like you. Smatresk is going to have to convince you that despite your personal connection to one person, a change at that position will be better for the university. He isn't going to get everyone, he will have to go out and get money from new people who don't have that personal connection to the current AD. It's a tough job bu that is what university presidents get paid to do.

I ask this question with all sincerity. Don't you think that after 15 years the Mean Green Club and season ticket numbers are just awful? Do you honestly believe that there is no one else out there who could do a better job? I believe RV's original contract was right at or right under $100k. We pay triple that now. Don't you think it's possible there is another level of talent we can hire now?

I wrote this before:

I've made an addition to the spreadsheet, the growth between 2002 and 2004. You can see that between those two dates we added 864 MGC members, and 4,285 season ticket holders.

Now, of course we need some context for this growth. The latest alumni numbers I have seen from the University state 300,000 alumni, with 225,000 of them living in the area. Of course most of those people became alumni long before the current AD was here.

Enrollment has grown from ~29,000 in 2002 to ~36,000 in 2014. Everyone of those students pays the Athletics Fee, but it's not by choice.

I think recent grads are the best metric to compare MGC growth. Unfortunately I don't have official numbers for the number of alumni who graduated between 2002 and 2014, but I do have numbers for 2008-2013¹. In those five the University awarded 41,102 degrees, an average of 8,220.4 degrees a year. Lets round that off to 8000 to be conservative (even though we know it's too low). I know 2014 degrees are "over 8000" but I don't have an official final number. So I think 8000 is an overly fair number per year for the last six years,

This still leaves us with no data official data for the first six years. We know enrollment grew about 24% over those years, so we could take that percentage off the average degrees awarded number, but I am going to be extremely conservative and say that we take off a full 50%. So lets assume for the first six years we awarded 4000 degrees per year.

That would leave us with an estimate of 72,000* degrees awarded 2002-2014. Again, I think that is a very low ball number, but I wanted to be conservative since we only have date for half the range.

We stated off with 211 MGC members in 2002. Some of those members stopped giving, some of them went to that great big stadium club in the sky. New members joined and by 2014 the MGC totaled 1075.

In the period of 2002-2014 the MGC grew by 864 members, while the university added (conservatively) ~72,000 new alumni.

¹UNT Publication: Institutional Research and Effectiveness 2013-2014 Fact Book
*((8000x6)+(4000x6))

Edited September 15, 2015 by Cerebus

meangreen15 · September 15, 2015

UNT wins 3 or less games this football season and then wins 14 or less games this basketball season.
Does Rick Villerreal final face any form of consequence? Who does UNT Fire? Mac? Benford? Both?
This is the scenerio staring this university president dead in the face.
What should happen is all three should be let go. Clean slate for the new AD to bring in his guys to transform the two biggest sports in a morbid athletic program.
Does the will exist at this university do even contemplate such an endeavor?

We fire all 3.

Then we bring in a new AD who actually engages the community and delivers on increasing MGC membership, increasing season tickets sales for all sports, and finally brings baseball to the school.

We bring in Mark Mangino to lead the football team to the promise land.

We bring in Fran Fraschilla to make the basketball team respectable again.

flyonthewall · September 15, 2015

I know it is a crazy situation, but the facts are, our pool of large donors is very small. Pick up a program, look in the "capital campaign " section, then cross reference that with the largest mgc donors. That is your list

Cerebus · September 15, 2015

I know it is a crazy situation, but the facts are, our pool of large donors is very small. Pick up a program, look in the "capital campaign " section, then cross reference that with the largest mgc donors. That is your list

I agree 100% Isn't that in effect an indictment on the current leadership? Isn't that one of the primary things they are tasked with, creating these donor relationships?

Also, if we had 5000 MGC members, wouldn't there donations be worth at least one of those large donors?

ETA: I also know that Smatresk personally spearheaded the campaign to raise $500 million in economically depressed Las Vegas. Not only did they set that goal, they beat it. That ability is one of the main reasons the is here. Time to shine his light on athletics.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Cerebus

Dr. Seuss · September 15, 2015

You don't have to pay them 100% of what is left on their contact. That would only happen if they don't get another job. Every contact has a clause in which if they get another job and their current salary isn't greater than or equal to the old contract amount, the previous school is only held liable for the difference. Example, Mac gets another job and he makes 300k, we would only owe him 300k. His base is around 600k and you wouldn't have to pay the incentives.

Travis · September 15, 2015

Nothing will change.

golfingomez · September 15, 2015

He has two left on his deal. He will presumably be fired during/after this season so we only have to buy out one year.

we gave him a five year contract right away?

A good question is, If this trifecta happens to come into fruition, how much would UNT drop on their new hires??? Each???
What if Coach Bro out at Tech gets Fired?? Would that be a worth while hire for NORTH TEXAS?

it would be a great hire.... unfortunately... he can probably get hired on as an OC at a P5 for more money...

but, he'll probably get one more year at Tech either way.... he's a hometown kid that they will give the benefit to