Why Fire Mac?

Ben Gooding · September 15, 2015

Mac led us to the best season we have had in a long time 9-4 and the best bowl showing in the modern era. That was in 2014 - not that long ago.
So it's not as easy as saying you can fire a coach after one game. You have to let this stuff play out. I am with you it doesn't look promising -- but I will be there Saturday.

2013. With players he belittled upn arrival. Funny how things unravel themselves.

Well, since he called W the 44th POTUS on the radio show tonight (W was the 43rd pres), the secret service may have to send him a reminder.

I noticed that. Then he stumbled into wanting to educate his players immediately after that fail of a comment. It's pitiful.

Also, he didn't say one damn word about the incompetence at QB, but was quick to point the finger at Tucker and Goree for fumbling. He even harped on the fumbles being such a detriment to the teams success Saturday night while practically ignoring the erratic passing game or interceptions. I truly believe he is blind to his own bullshit. How the QB play was not dwelled upon tonight just goes to show Mac has no earthly idea what he is doing. He knows our squishy faced AD prematurely locked him in and theres nothing we can do. This football program and athletic administration is an utter joke.

Christopher Walker · September 15, 2015

I can understand that Mac and probably the other coaches feel that Smith isn't ready to start yet. Smith hasn't been on campus very long.
I lost some respect for Mac tonight.

The thing is, good coaching (which includes knowing when to let talent lead) can overcome a transfer or freshman only being in a program for a few weeks. Let's draw some comparisons to a much more successful program who are in this exact scenario.

Oregon is starting highly lauded 5th-year graduate transfer QB Vernon Adams (2-Time Big Sky POTY), who came in from a close by but still excellent smaller program, Eastern Washington. Highly lauded (2011 Elite 11) transfer QB DaMarcus Smith has come to UNT from the fertile football machine that is Butler CC.

Vernon Adams has trouble in the Spring when he fails a math course, disqualifying him from the entirety of Spring ball. He passes a remedial test on the very last day possible to qualify for Fall camp. DaMarcus Smith has trouble transferring all of his credits and does not initially pass certain academic qualifications towards eligibility for Spring Ball. DaMarcus registers and spends a good semester at UNT, bringing his academic standing in line well within time to allow him the wherewithal for Summer workouts and voluntary training/learning.

Vernon Adams excels at Oregon's Fall camp, easily surpassing veteran backup Jeff Lockie, and learns as much of the fast-paced, vastly complicated Oregon playbook, even prompting the Oregon staff to craft a little of their play calling to his strengths as they recognize the extrem upside Adams possesses. DaMarcus Smith is nearly immediately written off as being too unprepared, having in no way the means to absorb all of the Canales-as-shackled-by-McCarney playbook, even though literally all information and footage from Fall camp showed that Smith's tangibles and intangibles far eceeded those fellow QBs to his left and right on the depth chart.

And so you may say, hey Christopher, I heard Vernon Adams cost Oregon a close win against Sparty last weekend, and to that I would say you are correct! Adams threw two interceptions and showed certain moments of unpreparedness in the Ducks system that probably could be pinned for that loss. But in that same performance he also threw 22/39 for 300+ yards with a touchdown, and another rushing touchdown to boot against an insanely stout defense. The upside, even for just the season that Oregon will have with him is strong and so he shall remain their starter and keep on learning.

DaMarcus Smith in that same time period had to suffer through watching one of the worst QBs North Texas has ever inexplicably fielded contribute to his already dismal record, accounting for three turnovers in a stupefying loss to a rapidly rebuilding rival. And that dismal QB is firmly planted two seats ahead of him on the depth chart.

Oh what a change of coaching mindset (perhaps loss of nepotism?) could mean for the Mean Green.

UTSA Fan · September 15, 2015

Seems the Mac pool is soured. Curious, when he signed, before he coached his first UNT game, what was the GMG response to his hire?

Edited September 15, 2015 by UTSA Fan

Ben Gooding · September 15, 2015

The thing is, good coaching (which includes knowing when to let talent lead) can overcome a transfer or freshman only being in a program for a few weeks. Let's draw some comparisons to a much more successful program who are in this exact scenario.
Oregon is starting highly lauded 5th-year graduate transfer QB Vernon Adams (2-Time Big Sky POTY), who came in from a close by but still excellent smaller program, Eastern Washington. Highly lauded (2011 Elite 11) transfer QB DaMarcus Smith has come to UNT from the fertile football machine that is Butler CC.
Vernon Adams has trouble in the Spring when he fails a math course, disqualifying him from the entirety of Spring ball. He passes a remedial test on the very last day possible to qualify for Fall camp. DaMarcus Smith has trouble transferring all of his credits and does not initially pass certain academic qualifications towards eligibility for Spring Ball. DaMarcus registers and spends a good semester at UNT, bringing his academic standing in line well within time to allow him the wherewithal for Summer workouts and voluntary training/learning.
Vernon Adams excels at Oregon's Fall camp, easily surpassing veteran backup Jeff Lockie, and learns as much of the fast-paced, vastly complicated Oregon playbook, even prompting the Oregon staff to craft a little of their play calling to his strengths as they recognize the extrem upside Adams possesses. DaMarcus Smith is nearly immediately written off as being too unprepared, having in no way the means to absorb all of the Canales-as-shackled-by-McCarney playbook, even though literally all information and footage from Fall camp showed that Smith's tangibles and intangibles far eceeded those fellow QBs to his left and right on the depth chart.
And so you may say, hey Christopher, I heard Vernon Adams cost Oregon a close win against Sparty last weekend, and to that I would say you are correct! Adams threw two interceptions and showed certain moments of unpreparedness in the Ducks system that probably could be pinned for that loss. But in that same performance he also threw 22/39 for 300+ yards with a touchdown, and another rushing touchdown to boot against an insanely stout defense. The upside, even for just the season that Oregon will have with him is strong and so he shall remain their starter and keep on learning.
DaMarcus Smith in that same time period had to suffer through watching one of the worst QBs North Texas has ever inexplicably fielded contribute to his already dismal record, accounting for three turnovers in a stupefying loss to a rapidly rebuilding rival. And that dismal QB is firmly planted two seats ahead of him on the depth chart.
Oh what a change of coaching mindset (perhaps loss of nepotism?) could mean for the Mean Green.

^^^^^

We have a right wing, ultra conservative, simple minded baby boomer coaching our football team in a very, very evolving college football landscape with mass media and superior technology. I mean, what could go wrong.

foutsrouts · September 15, 2015

Seems the Mac pool is soured. Curious, when he signed, before he coached his first UNT game, what was the GMG response to his hire?

Varied, but mostly positive. We were trying to recover from a high school coach who basically brought in his entire high school staff to join him you know.

Rudy · September 15, 2015

I like Mac, I really do. I've talked to him and he seems like a great guy, and I'd love for him to succeed, and bring us to the level that we should be at. However, at this point, I don't see it happening.

UNT90 · September 15, 2015

Seems the Mac pool is soured. Curious, when he signed, before he coached his first UNT game, what was the GMG response to his hire?

Cautiously optimistic.

It was not a slam dunk hire with the fan base and was a name that no fan had on their list.

So far, he has been a disappointment. A 1990s coach brought in by a 1990s AD.

oldguystudent · September 15, 2015

Seems the Mac pool is soured. Curious, when he signed, before he coached his first UNT game, what was the GMG response to his hire?

If I recall, it was met with skeptical hope. You've got to understand that we could've hired a moldy scouring pad that had been used for gynecological hygiene in the mutant populated sewers of Futurama and most people would've seen it as an improvement of what we'd been through.

Well, that's exactly what we got -- improvement over what we'd been through. Kinda like getting repeatedly punched in the kidneys doesn't seem so bad when you've spent the four years prior to that getting repeatedly kicked in the nuts by an angry woman in stilettos. Gee, aren't things better now? My balls only hurt when I pee instead of all the time!

MeanGreenHoops · September 15, 2015

Seems the Mac pool is soured. Curious, when he signed, before he coached his first UNT game, what was the GMG response to his hire?

I thought I posted my thoughts but maybe I only thought them. I thought the Mac hire was an overreaction to the Dodge hire and didn't like it. The Dodge hire was very risky. It also had a lot of pizzazz. We got more publicity about him than most any coaching hire I can remember. A lot of people were paying attention across Texas and even alums across the country. I really liked the gamble because I thought that what UNT needs is a jolt. A jolt from the decades of losing and apathy. He'd never been a head college coach and then brought all his hs coaches with him and it was a disaster.

Mac was the opposite, he was an old school guy who'd won at Iowa State. He wasn't flashy at all. He wasn't risky because you know how he'd done as a head coach. He'd been around the block. He was the anti-Dodge hire. He did nothing for the general fan base and did not inspire curiosity to the disconnected alums. If he had, we would have sold out Apogee against Houston.

If we are going to lose most every year, which we have for a long time now, we might as well take risks.

My hope is that maybe the next RV hire assuming no change is made at AD, will be something in between Dodge and Mac. Someone like who just got hired at SMU. I can dream anyway.

untjim1995 · September 16, 2015

Seems the Mac pool is soured. Curious, when he signed, before he coached his first UNT game, what was the GMG response to his hire?

I think, first of all, when we hired McCarney, we were just glad it was an experienced head coach from an actual FBS college. I wanted Franchione or Kragthorpe, but McCarney was fine with me, as well. And now that poor Steve Kragthorpe has to deal with his disease, that probably worked out for the best, for him. What we loved early about Mac was that he was optimistic and motivating when he talked to anyone about UNT, something we hadn't had in my 20+ years of following the program. It was a breath of fresh air to have a coach who knew how to take the talent he had on the roster and actually turn them into a winner. But then those players from Dodge's era graduated--and we replaced them with the absolute worst recruiting class in all of FBS football in 2014, according to Rivals. And then we heard in the middle of last season's debacle just how hard it is to recruit here, going full-Darrell Dickey on us. And sticking with a QB whose best attribute is that he can hand-off well and throw bubble screens, which also hits on his stubborn, Woody Hayes 1970 offense, it has all combined to make us believe that we are just stuck until after the 2017 season before we can see any hope. That's a long time from now, since we are thru one game of the 2015 season, but its the stark reality of our situation.

At the time, though, as Franchione got hired by Texas State shortly after we hired Mac, I posted on here that it would be really interesting to see how things play out over the next 3-5 years when comparing both situations. Right now, 5 years into this, there's no doubt in my mind that Texas State made the better hire. He has recruited better than McCarney has, as well as a really nice win at Houston during his tenure. And they didn't get annihilated at Florida State to start the season, like we obviously would. Although Mac has a UNT bowl win over UNLV during his tenure, Texas State does have a bowl bid that they earned for the first time last year.

Coker, by almost any measure, has been a better hire, but he has several advantages that McCarney and Franchione haven't had. UTSA gets way more local support and media coverage from San Antonio than both UNT and TSUSM get. UTSA gets marquee opponents at home to face, which helps in recruiting. And playing in CUSA with those advantages puts them above UTEP, UNT, and TSUSM. Coker has been a nice coach to build that program and I suspect that he will be there for as long as he wants to be in San Antonio. I think if you asked our fans to truthfully look at UTSA's situation versus ours, for the next three seasons, you guys are well ahead of us and will probably just create more distance. Its highly probable that we will have lost all 5 games we will have played against UTSA by the end of the 2017 season, which just galls us to no end, since you guys have played FBS ball since 2011 and we moved back up in 1995. But it is what it is--yall want your football team to be your primary window to the university. We don't...and never have--which is why we have around 15k fans in average attendance every year, even when our enrollment is over 37k and our local alumni (supposedly) exceeds 200k, while being surrounded in a metro area of millions. You UTSA guys have the very real potential of being a USF or UCF look-alike--if you decide to take advantage of your situation. All I can tell you is that it must be nice to be in that situation with your university.

Edited September 16, 2015 by untjim1995

Cr1028 · September 16, 2015

This may be a little too tinfoil for even me but I'm just putting it out there. I'm not sayin' I'm just sayin'.

Timeline:

October 2010: Iowa City senior qb is 6 games into his senior season, first as quarterback, and is looking for offers. Iowa City qb said his ultimate goal is to earn a scholarship to play quarterback for a Division I school. But he also wants to keep his options open. “For sure a Division I quarterback,” he said. “But I’d also be willing to make the move if that was the situation. But my goal right now is to be a Division I quarterback.”

Late October 2010: Todd Dodge fired by UNT. Iowa City qb still has no offers.

Late November 2010: Dan McCarney hired as new NT head coach. Iowa City qb still with no offers.

January 2011: Iowa City qb gets first and only offer.

February 2011: Iowa City qb signs with NT

September 2011: True Freshman qb scores first TD in NT's much anticipated new Apogee Stadium just a few weeks after entering the program. Apparently a true freshman can come in and play qb right away but a junior juco transfer 4 star elite 11 quarterback can't.

October 2011: True freshman qb with 2 months in the program gets the start for injured starter Derek Thompson over juco transfer. Throws 2 pick 6s.

October 2011: Thompson injured again, true freshman again comes in over juco.

2012: Injured

2013: Backup to redshirt senior during bowl season.

October 2014: Redshirt junior takes over as starter for final 6 games of the season. Averages 180 yds passing per game leading team to a 2-4 record against teams that would have a combined record of 13-23 over their final six games.

September 2015: Redshirt senior qb named starter for game one. Ends up with the worst quarterback rating in all of college football. Coach gives him a vote of confidence and says he will continue to be the starter.

meangreenbob · September 16, 2015

This may be a little too tinfoil for even me but I'm just putting it out there. I'm not sayin' I'm just sayin'.
Timeline:
October 2010: Iowa City senior qb is 6 games into his senior season, first as quarterback, and is looking for offers. Iowa City qb said his ultimate goal is to earn a scholarship to play quarterback for a Division I school. But he also wants to keep his options open. “For sure a Division I quarterback,” he said. “But I’d also be willing to make the move if that was the situation. But my goal right now is to be a Division I quarterback.”
Late October 2010: Todd Dodge fired by UNT. Iowa City qb still has no offers.
Late November 2010: Dan McCarney hired as new NT head coach. Iowa City qb still with no offers.
January 2011: Iowa City qb gets first and only offer.
February 2011: Iowa City qb signs with NT
September 2011: True Freshman qb scores first TD in NT's much anticipated new Apogee Stadium just a few weeks after entering the program. Apparently a true freshman can come in and play qb right away but a junior juco transfer 4 star elite 11 quarterback can't.
October 2011: True freshman qb with 2 months in the program gets the start for injured starter Derek Thompson over juco transfer. Throws 2 pick 6s.
October 2011: Thompson injured again, true freshman again comes in over juco.
2012: Injured
2013: Backup to redshirt senior during bowl season.
October 2014: Redshirt junior takes over as starter for final 6 games of the season. Averages 180 yds passing per game leading team to a 2-4 record against teams that would have a combined record of 13-23 over their final six games.
September 2015: Redshirt senior qb named starter for game one. Ends up with the worst quarterback rating in all of college football. Coach gives him a vote of confidence and says he will continue to be the starter.

Excellent information!! Proves Mac is a fraud and a disgrace. He should be fired and so should RV for what they have pulled at UNT at the expense of the UNT faithful. Shameful!!

Edited September 16, 2015 by meangreenbob

meanrob · September 16, 2015

His (he's the head coach, eventually the buck stops with him) offenses have finished 105th, 85th, 60th (2013), and 117th in the NCAA rankings in his first four years and sit at 123rd this year while staring at another finish in the 100s. The Sun Belt and CUSA aren't exactly defensive minded leagues.

During that stretch we are 22-28.

By comparison Ark State has finished 22nd, 24th, 62nd, 20th and sits at 113th after playing USC and Missouri this year. During that stretch they are 35-19.

Middle Tennessee has finished 63rd, 84th, 63rd, 64th, and currently sit at 57th. During that stretch they are 25-26 with three bowl seasons and dragged down by one 2-10 season.

Our best finish on offense has been near Ark State's worst and near MTSU's average. The point being all we have to do is finish in the 60s in offensive ranking and we'd probably have a winning record. A hurdle obviously too tall for Mac's offensive scheme.

GangGreen · September 16, 2015

The point being all we have to do is finish in the 60s in offensive ranking and we'd probably have a winning record.

Which would put us right in the middle of the pack for FBS. So, if we could average being average, we'd be great.

meanrob · September 16, 2015

Which would put us right in the middle of the pack for FBS. So, if we could average being average, we'd be great.

If we could be average we'd be good not great, which is better than the bad we are right now.

the green rokemi · September 17, 2015

Look, I'm not happy either but some of you people have short term memories.

There are other people on the hot seat before we get to Mac, namely Canales

greenit · September 17, 2015

Look, I'm not happy either but some of you people have short term memories.
There are other people on the hot seat before we get to Mac, namely Canales

He is clearly in the cross hairs. His contract is up, he evidently has not brought in/developed a D1 level QB, and his offense has stunk it up in recent memory. You may argue that it is really Mac that is causing the poor output, but it is Canales' name on the OC door so he will surely be the first to suffer the consequences of another poor offensive season.

Ben Gooding · September 17, 2015

Look, I'm not happy either but some of you people have short term memories.
There are other people on the hot seat before we get to Mac, namely Canales

Canales is a scapegoat. I've been saying this for quite some time. I knew this putrid offense (even in 2013) wasn't built for any kind of sustained success. It has proven and now Canales will bare the burden of Mac's downfalls. Thanks RV.

Got5onIt · September 17, 2015

Who woulda guessed we'd go from a Buick, to a Prius, and now back to a '75 Lincoln Towncar.....

keith · September 27, 2015

Bump....just because.

UNT90 · September 27, 2015

Mac led us to the best season we have had in a long time 9-4 and the best bowl showing in the modern era. That was in 2014 - not that long ago.
So it's not as easy as saying you can fire a coach after one game. You have to let this stuff play out. I am with you it doesn't look promising -- but I will be there Saturday.

he won with mostly another coach's players, and definitely another coach's QB recruit.

And that was one year.

If we go 0-12, would you feel the same way?

BillySee58 · September 27, 2015

he won with mostly another coach's players, and definitely another coach's QB recruit.
And that was one year.
If we go 0-12, would you feel the same way?

In his defense, that was after our first game cautioning not to overreact off that game alone. But yeah, 7 starters on offense and 6 starters on defense inherited from the previous coach, including the entire defensive line and the QB (two most important position units). Not to mention 6 wins against freshmen QBs that year, most of which were playing against us because things had already gone south that year.

That year was a great year, but skepticism would show there was a lot about that year that did not necessarily translate to prolonged success. And those causes for concern have been well justified.

TheWestie · September 27, 2015

please do not forget the 1st TD at Apogee, DT drives the field only to have Lil Mac come in for the first TD at the new stadium.
Standards are different for the other QB's not named AM

THIS^^^^^^^^

That has been a thorn in my side since the second it happened: Not because of anything to do with McNulty though. He hadn't given us a reason to lose hope when he was taking snaps at that point in time. But because it should have been Lance Dunbar's privilege to have the first Mean Green TD in Apogee.