That QB we turned down

Travis · September 4, 2015

We haven't played our 1st 2015 game and already the negativity on this board is stifling. If you have this same mind-set in your job, your family, and elsewhere in your life you must lead really wonderful lives.

Yes. I agree with you that we don't know what Senior Andy will be. So we are jumping the gun a bit.

But, on the other hand, Bogie did what our QB's couldn't... and at a very young age too.

There is certainly good reason to complain about the short-comings of this coaching staff as it relates to our peers. For one, we can't seem to beat an immediate start up... and things may look a little bit tougher to beat them this year. We can't judge a season by one game, but this one game is all we have to go off of right now... hopefully, our first game gives us a good impression of what kind of team we will be.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Travis

Aldo · September 4, 2015

I just think this would be a more productive discussion (as it relates to this one particular player anyway) a few weeks into the season and not as a knee-jerk reaction to an early season game.

Agreed.

I think McNulty could hit 300 yards versus SMU, but it'll take over 40 pass attempts. If we're truly going up-tempo, then it's possible. We should be able to run it down SMU's throat, setting up the passing game nicely.

Edited September 4, 2015 by Aldo

Cr1028 · September 4, 2015

Yes. I agree with you that we don't know what Senior Andy will be. So we are jumping the gun a bit.
But, on the other hand, Bogie did what our QB's couldn't... and at a very young age too.
There is certainly good reason to complain about the short-comings of this coaching staff as it relates to our peers. For one, we can seem to beat an immediate start up... and things may look a little bit tougher to beat them this year. We can't judge a season by one game, but this one game is all we have to go off of right now... hopefully, our first game gives us a good impression of what kind of team we will be.

Yes, I wonder if our redshirt SENIOR can be as good as their redshirt FRESHMAN.

Army of Dad · September 4, 2015

Pretty sure that's a better statistical game than DT ever had. If not, it's VERY close.
The lack of QB evaluation/development is going to be the downfall of Mac.

Lack of good to great QB play is always a coach killer. There are outliers, but that's not the norm.

There are a few obvious gripes that we could aim at our coaching staff, but I'm not sure this is one of them--not yet, anyway. I applaud Bogenshutz and UTSA on an impressive showing against a major opponent on the road, as they certainly represented both themselves and the conference quite well. But, it is just one game. And week one. We don't know if he will replicate those results on a regular basis, and we also don't truly know how good Arizona is. A lot of craziness happens in the first few days of college football that doesn't necessarily project how teams and/or individual players will turn out in the end. Also, in another thread we're gnashing our teeth about the Athlon ranking of QBs that has McNulty all the way down at 121, while the same list has Bogenshutz even lower at 125. My point is that we shouldn't act (after one awesome game) like our coaching staff pulled some epically bone-headed move by not recruiting the guy.

It's definitely cause for concern and since we have no game this week we have time to stew about it. The other thing is how durable Bogie will be, he was hurt last year and not telling if that will become the norm for him, but it's a concern I would have considering his size.

GM1998 · September 4, 2015

We haven't played our 1st 2015 game and already the negativity on this board is stifling. If you have this same mind-set in your job, your family, and elsewhere in your life you must lead really wonderful lives.

If you do the same thing and expect different results you are insane. We are collectively offering solutions to our problems. Complaining w/o offering a solution is negative. It may seem like semantics, but I think there is a difference. Plus this is like a family discussion. Tree of trust. I would never advocate airing our dirty laundry to outsiders.

Quoner · September 4, 2015

I would never advocate airing our dirty laundry to outsiders.

Man, you're gonna be pissed when you learn what the internet is and how message boards work.

UNTcrazy727 · September 4, 2015

Wasn't really trying to bash DT. Just pointing out that Bogenschutz, who we didn't want, put up better numbers in his first game against a Top 25 team than any UNT QB has in recent memory, regardless of competition. Doesn't make our coaching staff look very smart.

Bogenschutz did throw two INTs so that does diminish his stats a bit, but still a great first outing considering the opponent.

HoustonEagle · September 4, 2015

Man, you're gonna be pissed when you learn what the internet is and how message boards work.

you get an LOLz

LongJim · September 4, 2015

First impressions of UTSA--fast, very physical, and their tight end is going to be a handful.

MeanGreenTexan · September 4, 2015

Man, you're gonna be pissed when you learn what the internet is and how message boards work.

Wait, what do you mean? Non Mean Green fans can read this stuff?

Edited September 4, 2015 by MeanGreenTexan

GTWT · September 4, 2015

"Bogie"

I am so tired of cute nicknames for one of our opponent's players.

Cerebus · September 4, 2015

"Bogie"

I am so tired of cute nicknames for one of our opponent's players.

Fine. From now on we'll call him GRISHNAK, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.

Is that better?

FirefightnRick · September 4, 2015

We did recruit him, we just never offered. That's important because we did know of him and his interest.
The bigger picture issue here is that with Mccarney's mindset and parameters he set on QB recruiting, players like Bogenschutz were not offered by default, because of his/their height. When you recruit to North Texas you obviously don't get the pick of the litter.
If you want players with prototypical size you either have to find a hidden guy like Jeffery Wilson (harder to do today), win some recruiting battles against quality schools, or get a guy that has the size but doesn't have the production and wasn't highly recruited because of his play. Mccarney has gotten burned by not being able to win recruiting battles with enough frequency, but still wanting these type of players. That has created a problem, and resulted in us not even considering a guy like Bogenschutz because we're being too picky.
North Texas athletics cannot afford to set a bunch of predesignated parameters, with recruiting players or hiring coaches.

Terrible.

Rick

Harry · September 4, 2015

"Bogie"

I am so tired of cute nicknames for one of our opponent's players.

Have you tried spelling the dudes name? It ain't easy.

Army of Dad · September 4, 2015

Have you tried spelling the dudes name? It ain't easy.

This!

Also, that's a slang term for a booger and he's nothwhwre near as good as our Booger.

Harry · September 4, 2015

A little dose of reality for the horse beaters....

There weren't too many of us who at the time would have taken Bogie over Means. If you question that I will pull up some posts from the archives. Of course, Mean committed over the summer and had a less than stellar senior season. Bogie went to state and had a huge year throwing 100 TD passes to Tee Goree or somesuch.

As a segue, and to quoth @Cerebus, we are not paid to coach/evaluate players nor are we necessarily qualified to do so...it's not our job.

So I don't mind holding our coaches accountable to do a good job evaluating talent. But to make it sound like them passing on Bogie was a HUGE mistake, and saying "we knew better" is just disingenuous. Plus the guy has only played one game. Let's see how he fares the rest of the season before we jump a ledge. Have you seen their non conference slate?

We haven't played our 1st 2015 game and already the negativity on this board is stifling. If you have this same mind-set in your job, your family, and elsewhere in your life you must lead really wonderful lives.

And I think the minute we beat SMU in front of a good crowd the negativity will diminish. Just like the negativity increased after the UTSA loss last year. Losing = Negativity.

Army of Dad · September 4, 2015

A little dose of reality for the horse beaters....
There weren't too many of us who at the time would have taken Bogie over Means. If you question that I will pull up some posts from the archives. Of course, Mean committed over the summer and had a less than stellar senior season. Bogie went to state and had a huge year throwing 100 TD passes to Tee Goree or somesuch.
As a segue, and to quoth @Cerebus, we are not paid to coach/evaluate players nor are we necessarily qualified to do so...it's not our job.
So I don't mind holding our coaches accountable to do a good job evaluating talent. But to make it sound like them passing on Bogie was a HUGE mistake, and saying "we knew better" is just disingenuous. Plus the guy has only played one game. Let's see how he fares the rest of the season before we jump a ledge. Have you seen their non conference slate?
And I think the minute we beat SMU in front of a good crowd the negativity will diminish. Just like the negativity increased after the UTSA loss last year. Losing = Negativity.

Like all, or nearly, all recruiting decisions the real results aren't apparent for 2-3 years at the earliest. The early returns on Means vs. Bogie aren't favorable to this staff. Bogie might be injury prone his whole career and/or last night could be his best game ever.

The easiest way to keep us from beating that horse is for one of our QBs to actually play well and play well for a long time. That would likely mean wins and less complaining overall, plus the "scoreboard" for QB development and evaluation would show us doing well.

Blame RV for the opening week bye week extending the usual offseason grumpiness!

foutsrouts · September 4, 2015

A little dose of reality for the horse beaters....
There weren't too many of us who at the time would have taken Bogie over Means. If you question that I will pull up some posts from the archives. Of course, Mean committed over the summer and had a less than stellar senior season. Bogie went to state and had a huge year throwing 100 TD passes to Tee Goree or somesuch.
As a segue, and to quoth @Cerebus, we are not paid to coach/evaluate players nor are we necessarily qualified to do so...it's not our job.
So I don't mind holding our coaches accountable to do a good job evaluating talent. But to make it sound like them passing on Bogie was a HUGE mistake, and saying "we knew better" is just disingenuous. Plus the guy has only played one game. Let's see how he fares the rest of the season before we jump a ledge. Have you seen their non conference slate?
And I think the minute we beat SMU in front of a good crowd the negativity will diminish. Just like the negativity increased after the UTSA loss last year. Losing = Negativity.

I suspect that most of the frustrations are directed more at Mac's overall QB recruiting/management tendencies rather than strictly at the Bogie situation. Mac has been here for a while now, and failures in that area have become fairly obvious.

You're probably right that now might not be the best time to complain about water under the bridge, but there's really not a lot to talk about until tonight's kickoff when most will likely turn their attention to the punies. Maybe we should direct the betching at whoever gave us this damned opening off week.

BigDanTeague · September 4, 2015

A little dose of reality for the horse beaters....
There weren't too many of us who at the time would have taken Bogie over Means. If you question that I will pull up some posts from the archives.

That's pretty sad.

Eagle1855 · September 4, 2015

North Texas athletics cannot afford to set a bunch of predesignated parameters, with recruiting players or hiring coaches.

For that matter, neither can A&M. Jonathan Football wasn't in any way shape or form a prototypical QB. But Sherman felt strongly enough about his talent -- his potential -- they gave him a look. I'm sure Kevin Sumlin appreciates it. Without him, Sumlin's on a rather short leash going into Year Four...

Few programs have that luxury. And even the ones that do don't always get it right (Texas, Bama, LSU, Florida, Michigan and several others all come to mind).

Quoner · September 4, 2015

I wouldn't quite act like this kid is a lost cause for us yet. If I learned anything from the Dodge years, it's that any program is only 2-3 insulin management issues away from a QB wanting to transfer and play with his HS friends.

correcamino · September 4, 2015

Bogie is awesome but a decent amount of the credit also needs to be given to the uptempo offense. The no huddle resulted in 95 plays and the coaches also gave Bogie the ability to adjust at the line depending on what looks he saw from the defense. Pretty similar to what he did at Carthage if I'm not mistaken.

Not sure how well his talent and smarts would be utilized in the conservative, cookie cutter offense Mac like to employ though. I think the offensive philosophy at UNT is a bigger problem than the QBs themselves.

Edited September 4, 2015 by correcamino

UNT90 · September 4, 2015

Ask yourself this question--then you'll hopefully find your answer. If Bogenshutz had come to UNT instead of UTSA, what are the chances that he would play in an offense that would give him the chance to rack up 350+ yards in total offense on the road against a Top 25 P5 team?
Unless Mac decides to run an offense that is 180 degrees different from anything he has run other than the Seneca Wallace years at ISU, throwing QBs from Texas high schools aren't coming here. All we have are bus drivers --because that is what the offensive scheme asks for. Maybe we do have playmakers at QB that could throw for 300+ yards for many games this season, but I doubt I--and it's a moot point because we ain't running that offense anyway.
McNulty is a Senior Bus Driver from Iowa whose dad was pals with McCarney. Greer cannot play football at this level, probably couldn't at the FCS level, with those happy feet and that weak arm. Damarcus Smith couldn't get academics together to be here until it was too late and he cannot get above a QB who might be an ok fit at a D-2 college in Mac's and Chico's eyes. Means is actually the guy that will probably get groomed for the bus driver role for the future. And we will continue to have to go the out-of-state juco route for QBs to fill in the gaps that not being able to recruit a decent Texas HS QB causes for the roster. Even if this is Chico's last year, as I expect it to be, the offense is going to get opened up more after he's gone because Mac wants a grind it out offense to compliment his defense. He would have to do what Patterson at TCU did--give up all control of that side of the ball to the OC who runs an offense completely unknown to Mac, whether its the spread or some hybrid of it. And the chances of that happening seem about as high as us buying out a contract before there's more than a year left until its expiring.

I think I said this by simply stating that "DMac despises the forward pass" in the original post...

MeanGreenTexan · September 4, 2015

Bogie is awesome but a decent amount of the credit also needs to be given to the uptempo offense. The no huddle resulted in 95 plays and the coaches also gave Bogie the ability to adjust at the line depending on what looks he saw from the defense. Pretty similar to what he did at Carthage if I'm not mistaken.
Not sure how well his talent and smarts would be utilized in the conservative, cookie cutter offense Mac like to employ though. I think the offensive philosophy at UNT is a bigger problem than the QBs themselves.

I wouldn't say ground-n-pound is 'cookie cutter' in any way nowdays. 'Relic' might be a better word, but when it's working, it wins games.

UNT90 · September 4, 2015

I wouldn't say ground-n-pound is 'cookie cutter' in any way nowdays. 'Relic' might be a better word, but when the defense is outstanding, it wins games.

fixed