What if.....

[untjim1995]

I see your "what if" and raise you a "what if"

What if blowing out UH 28-0 at Texas Stadium and then beating Tennessee in Knoxville 21-14 in the 1975 season had been enough to get us an SWC invite?
 

If we had gotten into the SWC club, back in the late 70s, I think the following would have happened:

1.) Hayden Fry would've stayed. He was a Texan and would have loved coaching in the SWC again.

2.) We probably would've been a middle of the pack team in the SWC of that time, which is no slight. From 1977-1989, Arkansas, Texas, A&M, Baylor, SMU, and Houston were ranked highly at different times, and each appeared in The Cotton Bowl as the SWC Champion.

3.) It would have avoided our "death moment"--the I-aa drop. I don't think anyone with a straight face can argue that only SMU's actual death penalty precipitated a bigger fall from grace within 5 years of their high point than what we did from 1978 to 1983.

4.) Being in the SWC of that time, even when Arkansas left and Texas and A&M looking to head out, too, we would have ended up, at worst, in CUSA with UH. I don't think we would've ended up in the Big 12, only because we didn't have any political ties like Baylor and Tech had. But, and here's the huge what if, the Big Eight could've looked at the changing landscape and recognized we need a presence in the DFW TV Market, especially when Arkansas left to the SEC. North Texas would've been a great fit for the old Big Eight. They would've had nine opponents, so your league would have a balanced schedule every year. You get a huge TV market in a large alumni base for almost every single school in the conference, and you would have a chance to recruit Texas HS kids much easier, since OU and to a lesser degree, OSU, were able to do. Colorado got great when they started scheduling UT and A&M in OOC play because that was their way to getting into the Texas HS ranks--that led to some great recruits that got them a national title.

5.) We would be in the AAC today, at a minimum. And SMU, as well as probably TCU, would be in CUSA or the MWC instead. Old CUSA would've never gone after SMU or TCU because they already would've had UNT, meaning that they were blocked instead of us, unless we opened up the market to one or both of them. I doubt that the conference would have wanted that. Only the WAC had SMU and TCU together, and as soon as TCU got good, they jumped to the old CUSA, which then led to a jump to the MWC, which allowed SMU to get the CUSA bid. If we had been there all along, who knows how that would've transpired.

One thing I do know is that the pure "give-up" of what occurred at UNT from 1979 until 1994 just haunts us. It basically killed the program in the eyes of so many in the state and area. Even today, a lot of people think of us as being on par with SFA than they do SMU...

[Ben Gooding]

We are not on par with SFA in football and I have never encountered anyone at UNT or outside of UNT that has thought that. There are people that believe we aren't on SMU's level because they have the money to push their brand and the political ties (money) to ensure their brand is seen. In a conference and competitive standpoint we are SMU's peer as much as you or Smut fans don't want to believe it, it's very true. Granted they are racking up recruiting classes while we stealth ourselves to the worse recruiting class in the country. And that will be the difference in the years to come. When Mac is long gone we will have him to thank for not only losing while he was here, but leaving the cupboard relatively bare in comparison to our peers. We will feel the Mac effect for 2-3-4 years after his inevitable departure. Everything said here is 100% true and the KRAM's of the world (no offense, KRAM) are living an eyes wide shut fandom. 

If President Smastrek wants to take athletics serious, he needs to bite the bullet after year 5 (if the season is not respectable) of a losing regime. 20% success rate should not be acceptable.  

[untjim1995]

We are not on par with SFA in football and I have never encountered anyone at UNT or outside of UNT that has thought that. There are people that believe we aren't on SMU's level because they have the money to push their brand and the political ties (money) to ensure their brand is seen. In a conference and competitive standpoint we are SMU's peer as much as you or Smut fans don't want to believe it, it's very true. Granted they are racking up recruiting classes while we stealth ourselves to the worse recruiting class in the country. And that will be the difference in the years to come. When Mac is long gone we will have him to thank for not only losing while he was here, but leaving the cupboard relatively bare in comparison to our peers. We will feel the Mac effect for 2-3-4 years after his inevitable departure. Everything said here is 100% true and the KRAM's of the world (no offense, KRAM) are living an eyes wide shut fandom. 

If President Smastrek wants to take athletics serious, he needs to bite the bullet after year 5 (if the season is not respectable) of a losing regime. 20% success rate should not be acceptable.  

You've been around these parts for less than five years. Trust me, plenty of people in the last 20 years thought we played SFA, SHSU, and the old SW Texas State because we did for the previous 12 years.

I think we are absolutely peers with SMU in the football world--but many old money types in the state and in the media do not look at us as equals...

I promise you--we know a lot more about UNT than you do, even if you have been a student for all of 2 or 3 years now...

[GreenTexan13]

a lot of people think of us as being on par with SFA than they do SMU...

Or the people who are completely oblivious to our program...

I had small talk with a older guy in an elevator in Austin while I was wearing a North Texas shirt a few months ago say, "North Texas? isn't that a university up in the pan handle?".

It's an older generation mindset, based on what you all have seen through your days at UNT and many years after. Ben and I didn't go through all of that, yes..... But that is why a lot of things need to change. Based on a lot of points you have brought up about the football team's past. UNT missed a lot of opportunities, but we have to focus on where we are at today. The AD and BOR seem to be hindering that for awhile now. This is why we need President Smastrek to follow through with his athletic turnaround. He is doing a good job at targeting the younger generations.

In essence... I think we can all agree, that a good athletic program is great for university recognition.

 

[greenit]

I am in San Diego for a business trip. I knew the Tangers were playing a series with the Padres so I made sure to pack a North Texas shirt to wear to a game  

i lost count of the number of times I got a UNT or North Texas shout out to which I of course responded with a Go Mean Green!

and the Rangers are kicking ass 8-4  at the moment. 

[TheWestie]

Even today, a lot of people think of us as being on par with SFA than they do SMU...

THIS.

And not just with football.

When I was a senior in HS in the early 2000s, this is what 3/4 of my teachers (in suburban Houston) thought about UNT. The other 1/4 had kids who were going here.