Middle Tennessee Schedules Series With Mizzou

UNT90 · August 31, 2015

I have zero interest in watching my team getting curb stomped at home by a top tier school just to placate some of our fan base. It's possible I'd sell my tickets (for a profit!) and just watch the game on TV.

but you are ok if they get curb stomped on the road? Where the chance of a curb stomping is much greater?

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and after RV retires and we do have a marketable opponent at Apogee like was promised when we built the stadium, give me a shout and I'll gladly take those tickets off your hands.

MeanGreenTexan · August 31, 2015

but you are ok if they get curb stomped on the road? Where the chance of a curb stomping is much greater?

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and after RV retires and we do have a marketable opponent at Apogee like was promised when we built the stadium, give me a shout and I'll gladly take those tickets off your hands.

As it stands, I am 100% against not having the paycheck games because it gives teams like the soccer ladies, golf, and tennis the money they need to continue being successful as they are. And of course no one likes to get 'curb stomped' on the road. That's why I like the Iowa/TN games better than the LSU/Alabama/OU/etc... games. Either way, we must have the money.

You cannot honestly say with 100% certainty that it would change with a new AD. As a matter of fact, you would likely LOSE some of the existing big-$ donors we currently have if a new guy were hired. What do they say about the Devil you know?

UNT90 · August 31, 2015

As it stands, I am 100% against not having the paycheck games because it gives teams like the soccer ladies, golf, and tennis the money they need to continue being successful as they are. And of course no one likes to get 'curb stomped' on the road. That's why I like the Iowa/TN games better than the LSU/Alabama/OU/etc... games. Either way, we must have the money.
You cannot honestly say with 100% certainty that it would change with a new AD. As a matter of fact, you would likely LOSE some of the existing big-$ donors we currently have if a new guy were hired. What do they say about the Devil you know?

actually, the fact that EVERYONE in our conference IS doing it differently indicates a new AD would in fact do it differently.

We are the only one in our conference stuck in the 1990s

UNTFan23 · August 31, 2015

but you are ok if they get curb stomped on the road? Where the chance of a curb stomping is much greater?

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and after RV retires and we do have a marketable opponent at Apogee like was promised when we built the stadium, give me a shout and I'll gladly take those tickets off your hands.

I don't like it but at the same time I don't have to pay to watch it happen. I went to a game against Oklahoma (somewhere around 2001 or 2002?) where we got stomped and haven't gone to a big money game since. I'm perfectly fine with that.

UNT90 · August 31, 2015

I don't like it but at the same time I don't have to pay to watch it happen. I went to a game against Oklahoma (somewhere around 2001 or 2002?) where we got stomped and haven't gone to a big money game since. I'm perfectly fine with that.

if you have faith in your coaches and AD, then you should believe that we could possibly pull off a win at home.

We did beat Baylor at home, Indiana also. K. St. was close throughout before they pulled away in the fourth to win by 8.

Those are the 3 most recent P5s to play in Denton, I think. So where is this curb stomping of which you speak?

Just crap to protect a crap schedule.

Edited August 31, 2015 by UNT90

UNTFan23 · August 31, 2015

if you have faith in your coaches and AD, then you should believe that we could possibly pull off a win at home.

We did beat Baylor at home, Indiana also. K. St. was close throughout before they pulled away in the fourth to win by 8.

Those are the 3 most recent P5s to play in Denton, I think. So where is this curb stomping of which you speak?

Just crap to protect a crap schedule.

Do you honestly believe we would have defeated Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, Alabama, and Georgia or will defeat future opponents like Iowa, Wisconsin, Arkansas, and Florida just because we play them at home in Apogee?

I'm a realist and I don't see us defeating any of those schools just because we play them here in Denton versus in their barn. Sorry but I'm not sorry.

UNT90 · August 31, 2015

Do you honestly believe we would have defeated Texas, Oklahoma, LSU, Alabama, and Georgia or will defeat future opponents like Iowa, Wisconsin, Arkansas, and Florida just because we play them at home in Apogee?
I'm a realist and I don't see us defeating any of those schools just because we play them here in Denton versus in their barn. Sorry but I'm not sorry.

of course you don't. That's the problem with this fan base. We expect to lose, so it's ok to go on the road and get our brains beat in where we have a less than 1% chance of winning these games with this coach as long as we don't have to see it happen at home? Just really really really shortsighted thinking, and something that you have obviously been conditioned to believe.

Remember when la. Tech beat our brains in at home last year? Is that ok, as long as it's not TCU doing the beat down?

Like I said, we have won 2 of the last three times we have played P5 teams in Denton. The loss was by 8 points. Those are the facts. So quit with AD organized defense already.

You know we will never play Florida or Texas at home. But Ok. St. or Mizzou may be feasible. Iowa should have been feasible, but RV decided to double down on the whoring with them. Texas Tech should be possible and we have a history with them.

What it comes down to is laziness and awful negotiation skills in the AD's office.

EVERY OTHER CONFERENCE MATE HAS A P5 SCHEDULED FOR A HOME GAME.

WHY NOT NORTH TEXAS?

Edited August 31, 2015 by UNT90

Ben Gooding · August 31, 2015

We are dealing with the chicken/egg dilemma in regards to scheduling. We aren't scheduling decent teams in Apogee because we have to have the money vs P5 road games because we aren't winning that enables us to fill the stands.

We aren't taking the risk of dipping into the red to make big pushes so we are in a status quo rut. In our given footprint we will always sit where we are. In other words, this current athletic administration is not giving North Texas the best reasonable chance of reaching optimal success. RV is happy with what he has done and feels no pressure, internally or externally, to do things differently.

Our hope for change is President Smastrek. He has been here now for 2 years. He has spoken publicly about having recognized sports teams as recently as last week and in the past. The time has come for him to start cashing those verbal checks.

UNT90 · August 31, 2015

We are dealing with the chicken/egg dilemma in regards to scheduling. We aren't scheduling decent teams in Apogee because we have to have the money vs P5 road games because we aren't winning that enables us to fill the stands.
We aren't taking the risk of dipping into the red to make big pushes so we are in a status quo rut. In our given footprint we will always sit where we are. In other words, this current athletic administration is not giving North Texas the best reasonable chance of reaching optimal success. RV is happy with what he has done and feels no pressure, internally or externally, to do things differently.
Our hope for change is President Smastrek. He has been here now for 2 years. He has spoken publicly about having recognized sports teams as recently as last week and in the past. The time has come for him to start cashing those verbal checks.

talk is cheap, and there has been a ton of it over the past 10 years. If Pres. Smastrek was going to make a change at AD, he would have done it this past summer. He didn't. The best ability RV has is the ability to protect RV. President Smastrek would have to get BOR approval for this move, I believe, and RV has plenty of protection within that group.

Ben Gooding · August 31, 2015

talk is cheap, and there has been a ton of it over the past 10 years. If Pres. Smastrek was going to make a change at AD, he would have done it this past summer. He didn't. The best ability RV has is the ability to protect RV. President Smastrek would have to get BOR approval for this move, I believe, and RV has plenty of protection within that group.

I agree, talk is cheap. I suspect Smastrek to start putting his hands on things over the summer if seasons don't go as planned. If things do not go as planned and Smastrek doesn't play his hand then it will be apparent that he would be in fact all talk.

MeanGreenTexan · August 31, 2015

actually, the fact that EVERYONE in our conference IS doing it differently indicates a new AD would in fact do it differently.

We are the only one in our conference stuck in the 1990s

"do it differently" ...whatever that means.

I'm talking about balancing the budget. I have been since the very beginning of this thread. You're meandering and ideologically guessing. Please address how changing the Athletic Director (thus, according to your wandering logic = enough money to end the paycheck games) unequivocally balances the budget.

Remember, you're like the prosecutor here. The burden of proof is on you sir.

UNTFan23 · August 31, 2015

of course you don't. That's the problem with this fan base. We expect to lose, so it's ok to go on the road and get our brains beat in where we have a less than 1% chance of winning these games with this coach as long as we don't have to see it happen at home? Just really really really shortsighted thinking, and something that you have obviously been conditioned to believe.

Remember when la. Tech beat our brains in at home last year? Is that ok, as long as it's not TCU doing the beat down?

Like I said, we have won 2 of the last three times we have played P5 teams in Denton. The loss was by 8 points. Those are the facts. So quit with AD organized defense already.
You know we will never play Florida or Texas at home. But Ok. St. or Mizzou may be feasible. Iowa should have been feasible, but RV decided to double down on the whoring with them. Texas Tech should be possible and we have a history with them.

What it comes down to is laziness and awful negotiation skills in the AD's office.

EVERY OTHER CONFERENCE MATE HAS A P5 SCHEDULED FOR A HOME GAME.

WHY NOT NORTH TEXAS?

There is no organised defense of the AD going on. Indiana is far, far from a P5 football power. What helped us beat them was the TX heat. Those guys were gassed after coming back for the second half of the game.

Baylor was downright awful when we played them. It's no surprise we beat them. If we played them today (regardless of location) we'd get waxed.

K-State in 2010 was a middle of the road Big 12 North team. Had we played better defense that night we might have actually won. If I remember correctly, a lot of purple was in that stadium for the final game at Fouts. Hardly a home field advantage.

What some people seem to get all hot and bothered by is playing top shelf programs in Apogee. I've seen names like aTm, Oklahoma State, Mizzou (Mizzou might not be top shelf but they have an offense that lights up the scoreboard), and a couple others who we really have no business playing in our home stadium.

I want winnable games in Apogee. We should be scheduling G5 schools and not P5s. G5 present us with the greatest opportunity for a win and a winning season.

MeanGreenTexan · August 31, 2015

There is no organised defense of the AD going on. Indiana is far, far from a P5 football power. What helped us beat them was the TX heat. Those guys were gassed after coming back for the second half of the game.
Baylor was downright awful when we played them. It's no surprise we beat them. If we played them today (regardless of location) we'd get waxed.
K-State in 2010 was a middle of the road Big 12 North team. Had we played better defense that night we might have actually won. If I remember correctly, a lot of purple was in that stadium for the final game at Fouts. Hardly a home field advantage.
What some people seem to get all hot and bothered by is playing top shelf programs in Apogee. I've seen names like aTm, Oklahoma State, Mizzou (Mizzou might not be top shelf but they have an offense that lights up the scoreboard), and a couple others who we really have no business playing in our home stadium.
I want winnable games in Apogee. We should be scheduling G5 schools and not P5s. G5 present us with the greatest opportunity for a win and a winning season.

For sure.
I'd much rather see Colorado at Apogee than A&M.

Cerebus · August 31, 2015

A lot of people like to point to ARSt. Sometime very recently, they procured some donors that are pouring all kinds of money in the AD coffers. Attendance be damned, they have donors with deep pockets. Unfortunately, we don't have that.

Those donors didn't descend from the heavens. Their AD went and developed those relationships.

Since North Texas enrollment (37k) is almost four times the size of ASU's (10K), since our alumni numbers dwarf theirs, and since DFW is one of the richest and most prosperous sections of the entire nation I guess the real question is why haven't we landed at least that same level of giving?

MeanGreenTexan · August 31, 2015

Those donors didn't descend from the heavens. Their AD went and developed those relationships.
Since North Texas enrollment (37k) is almost four times the size of ASU's (10K), since our alumni numbers dwarf theirs, and since DFW is one of the richest and most prosperous sections of the entire nation I guess the real question is why haven't we landed at least that same level of giving?

Valid criticism I'm already on board with.

My question/concern though: Craig Helwig friggin sucked. I dunno who was before him. Did he suck?
RV is better, but he has flaws. If RV were to be fired, are we 100% certain the new guy will be better?

untjim1995 · August 31, 2015

Army of Dad · August 31, 2015

Valid criticism I'm already on board with.
My question/concern though: Craig Helwig friggin sucked. I dunno who was before him. Did he suck?
RV is better, but he has flaws. If RV were to be fired, are we 100% certain the new guy will be better?

100% certain...that's a way higher standard than we hold people to around here. Were you 100% certain that Mrs. MGT would even give you the time of day when you first talked to her? If you demand 100% certainty 100% of the time...

The other way of looking at it is that since RV is better than Helwig we would replace RV with someone better than him. That is the curve we are on, right?

Edited August 31, 2015 by Army of Dad

Cerebus · August 31, 2015

The other way of looking at it is that since RV is better than Helwig we would replace RV with someone better than him. That is the curve we are on, right?

Especially since RV has been here 14 years. It seems to be one of the main defenses of him is "well the culture here is bad", if he hasn't changed it in a decade and a half he just isn't going to change it. It was a valid defense when he was new, it was still valid five years in, ten years in it started to get threadbare...

"The culture" is no longer a defense, it's a condemnation.

untjim1995 · August 31, 2015

I just think that you can use the SMU series a lot better for scheduling than we do. Like this year, the AD gets to argue correctly that UNT fans get to watch their team for 6 very easy-to-attend games this year. The problem is that you give the donors and fans Portland State to go along with that SMU game. My point would be that in 2020, which is now the earliest it can be done, is to go after BYU and look at signing a home-and-home with them, with BYU playing here first in 2020, along with SMU, and at Army, and at P5 bodybag. Then in 2021, when you play Army here, at bodybag, and at BYU, but you get the neutral-site game at SMU, which is all that game will ever be since they have no fanbase. In 2022, the Army series will be over, you still have SMU and the bodybag game, but you can work on two decent home-and-home series, doing it to where you have a good OOC team at home in the years you play in Dallas, so you still have 6 easy games to watch us play, as well as SMU and another team, such as Air Force, to play here, then return that game in the year you play at SMU. The other benefit is you aren't giving up some of your bodybag money to buy a game with Podunk State, since we apparently need every cent we can get to cover the budget.

Or just continue to play bad FCS teams that don't prepare you for anyone else on your schedule, don't get anyone extra to travel to Apogee to watch the game, and get absolutely no media coverage for it. If the dozen or so big monied-donors like this because it lets them rub elbows with their pal, RV, and the rest of the BOR here, then that's how it goes, I guess. And that would be soooooo North Texas to keep doing that, as well.

MeanGreenTexan · August 31, 2015

100% certain...that's a way higher standard than we hold people to around here. Were you 100% certain that Mrs. MGT would even give you the time of day when you first talked to her? If you demand 100% certainty 100% of the time...
The other way of looking at it is that since RV is better than Helwig we would replace RV with someone better than him. That is the curve we are on, right?

So we're gambling.

It's certainly possible that the UT/A&M/Tech/TCU/OU Assoc. AD (or something along those lines, because that's likely who it would be) would be better than RV. It worked so well when we picked up Helwig. But it's also a possibility that this fragile thing we have going could implode because the new dude steps in and doesn't realize the apathy this athletic department is stuck behind.

And honestly *get ready for your mind to be blown*, if there was going to be a changing of the guard, now is the perfect time to do it, because the ink is already dry on all of the contracts that will guarantee our A.D. stays afloat for 5 years until the new dude understands the apathy above. But, any momentum we have going with baseball could disintegrate, and we STILL won't have any money for the new dude to can Benford or anyone else he may feel is underperforming.

I'm saying the risks are considerable.

Cerebus · August 31, 2015

I'm saying the risks are considerable.

Yes they are.

If we stay pat there is a good chance that we are letting someone with a very shaky hiring record pick the next men's BB and football coaches within the next few years.

untjim1995 · August 31, 2015

Especially since RV has been here 14 years. It seems to be one of the main defenses of him is "well the culture here is bad", if he hasn't changed it in a decade and a half he just isn't going to change it. It was a valid defense when he was new, it was still valid five years in, ten years in it started to get threadbare...
"The culture" is no longer a defense, it's a condemnation.

RV is just a symptom of the main illness, apathy. Don't get me wrong, he's not a good AD for our circumstances currently, but a lot of that is because he is a "company man", just staying in budget and keeping a smile on his face even if he wants to publically complain. But its the apathy, which has prevailed for decades, that just kills us. Most of the students, alumni, and local citizens are told that athletics at UNT is a waste, both in time and money. So they follow someone else, never to be seen or heard from again as potential UNT fans. That apathy is a cancer tot he entire university, not just athletics, but getting as many students as possible to be here for a "value" degree bring that mindset around, especially now that they are children of alumni who felt the same way in the 80s and 90s as students themselves. RV is just a by-product of that mindset, nothing more, nothing less.

The I-aa fiasco was the point where apathy put the program on life support. Yes, we are not on life support anymore, but the apathy is what we still deal with, just taking medication to endure it. Only thing that could potentially fix the problem forever is to take an exploratory surgery, i.e. increasing funding to buy out bad hires and enable winning as the only thing that is acceptable here, but it will take money and commitment, which you do have, but you are afraid to spend it on something that isn't known. The problem is that you cannot get better with that illness and you have beneficiaries that just want you to die off so they can get the extra resources for themselves.

The BOR and administration are the only ones who can fix this--they have to take it to the alumni, students, faculty, and the local citizens and tell them (not sell them) what they are going to be doing. Changing the mindset from just fielding a team to winning will take a lot of time, energy, and resources, but we believe its an untapped source of possibility in terms of revenue production for the entire university. Otherwise, the patient is going to eventually die, no matter what. We can go down trying or we can just let the disease finish the job.

Yes they are.
If we stay pat there is a good chance that we are letting someone with an awful hiring record pick the next men's BB and football coaches within the next few years.

FIFY

Ben Gooding · August 31, 2015

The new AD doesn't need to know about the apathy. He doesn't need to acknowledge it. He needs to treat the apathy as a tiny blip on the radar because our new AD must have the confidence to know that he will hurdle that. Someone asked if a new AD would be better....is that a joke? Have you not been paying attention to the current state of our athletic programs. Not to even mention the past. This AD can't hire winning coaches, can't fundraise, can't schedule, can't fill in the blank. What makes you (or people) think that a new AD would be worse is a far better and reasonable question given our current state. Because from an administrative and financial standpoint (not to mention W/L) we can't get any worse.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Ben Gooding
Error

forevereagle · August 31, 2015

The new AD doesn't need to know about the apathy. He doesn't need to acknowledge it.

Because not talking about problems makes them go away? I guess we can stop talking about a lot of things.

Ben Gooding · August 31, 2015

No, because it's an excuse. Most G5 programs face apathy. That's a part of being in the G5, always trying to prove themselves to their fanbase, conference and country. We don't need to be informed of a given over and over, we need to be told solutions and we need to see said solutions come to fruition over time.