The Coddling of the American Mind

UNT Five&Dime · August 13, 2015

no reason to debate you. All you do is insult, which is what you just did.

I know, right? He even makes the assumption my name is Kermit. All us green puppets look the same, huh?

#GreenLivesMatter

Army of Dad · August 13, 2015

oh, the micro-aggressions committed against amphibious puppets

Turtles are not amphibians.

CBL = science denier?

Cerebus · August 13, 2015

Me, reading these comments.

Censored by Laurie · August 13, 2015

no reason to debate you. All you do is insult, which is what you just did.

It's actually funny at this point, as that is all you libs know how to do. Make it personal and imply or just flat out say the person that disagrees with your regressive "progressive" BS is stupid.

Its your playbook. Attempting to say it in an educated way doesn't change what you are saying, and actually reflects on your own intelligence.

But, thanks for providing a great example of what this article attempts to address.

to my recollection, I've never actually purposefully insulted you...certainly never called you, oh off the top of my head, "idiotic", a "moron" or, my personal favorite...a "dufus". can you think of anyone who has done that?

now, if you took my statement of your perhaps needing some self-examination as insulting...I feel my point has been pretty well made. you've made numerous broad assertions of an "upside-down America" but based solely on your world-view...your template for what America, to you and you alone...stands for, has become and ought to be...as if your American ideal is the one collective American ideal and those with views outside of that are harmful, un-American and upside-down.

I then challenge your assertions and you feel insulted (who is providing the great example from this article, again?) and attempt to pigeon-hole any sort of dissent to your ethos. straight from the playbook, indeed...no...not the neo-con or the rightist playbook, I find grouped-generalizations inaccurate and lazy, but yours...the UNT90 playbook..."must just be leftist group-think again", "indoctrinated faux-progressives", "propagandist whores for the biased media". it's so tired.

I make zero secret of my political leanings or of the fact that I disagree with a very, very large amount of what you post. but the thing is...I get your views (at least most of them) and where they come from. you'd be very hard-pressed to find instance where I pointedly disagreed with another's viewpoint...so long as they can present a reasoned and coherent argument. "Upside down America. This will continue until a breaking point is reach. I seriously fear what will occur at that point." doesn't qualify. that's just 21 words that manage to say nothing of substance.

Me, reading these comments.

I counted about 5 reasoned responses to your post...with a handful of others that veered slightly based on response to your post. you easily could've quoted one or two of those and furthered the conversation.

or you could just go for the gif-joke.

personally, I'm a fan either option.

GBarksdale · August 13, 2015

Suddenly all of my liberal friends only have liberal friends and refuse to even speak with conservatives, or even entertain conservative thoughts. The same things goes for conservative friends in regard to liberals. The mere fact that someone is on the opposite end of the spectrum means they are stupid and not worth your time.

Yeah, I see this a lot nowadays. And I don't really get it. I worked in politics in DC for 15 years and for much of that time people of differing political views got along. I was always able to separate politics from personalities. I'm conservative; the best man in my wedding was a liberal. Same today with one of my best friends here. Plus, I live in a pretty diverse area philosophically speaking, so it's important to look past politics and find common ground in other areas.

Someone on this thread mentioned that this kind of polarization has happened before. Agreed -- but very rarely to this degree. Today's polarization reminds me of the 1850s.

Army of Dad · August 13, 2015

Someone on this thread mentioned that this kind of polarization has happened before. Agreed -- but very rarely to this degree. Today's polarization reminds me of the 1850s.

If today's polarization leads to a similar conclusion the next one will make the 1860s looks like a church social.

Cerebus · August 13, 2015

or you could just go for the gif-joke.

LongJim · August 13, 2015

: " It is creating a culture in which everyone must think twice before speaking up"

when really that ought be the silver-lining.

Man, I couldn't disagree more. 'Not speaking up' because of the possible repercussions caused a lot of heartache through history.

Quoner · August 13, 2015

Man, I couldn't disagree more. 'Not speaking up' because of the possible repercussions caused a lot of heartache through history.

Agree, but in this case, think of it more as the difference between, say 9,580 posts vs 20,670.

LongJim · August 13, 2015

Agree, but in this case, think of it more as the difference between, say 9,580 posts vs 20,670.

LOL--oh I know. It's a microcosm of "out there" up in here, too. Perfect illustration in this thread.

Censored by Laurie · August 13, 2015

Man, I couldn't disagree more. 'Not speaking up' because of the possible repercussions caused a lot of heartache through history.

ah...I think perhaps we might just be off with semantics. I'm certainly not suggesting that people remain silent, but rather that there is a moment taken to process and fully evaluate what they're about to say. a balance of reason and emotion.

Agree, but in this case, think of it more as the difference between, say 9,580 posts vs 20,670.

honestly...at least with that part of the post...he didn't even cross my mind.

+1 anyway!

LongJim · August 13, 2015

"semantics..."

Oh, I agree. But rhetorically--I'm sure you agree that even if I say something that you really disagree with and is possibly even offensive to you, that it's really not healthy to get all bent out of shape over it, rush over to your group thinking friends and plan for my destruction, professional end, legal squashing or ? Rather than enjoying cold beer in some sort of uneasy truce while wondering where TF I got those dumbass notions and going on with your life?

Unfortunately, the "relax and have a homebrew" response--which used to be the norm--isn't the norm any more. It's "I don't agree with your dumb ass, therefore I am not only not going to listen to you or associate with you, I am going to try to jack you up in any way I can. Because I'm right, and you're wrong."

Edited August 13, 2015 by LongJim

mattmartin817 · August 13, 2015

The blackest-of-black-pots-enveloped-in-a-black-hole calling the kettle black?

4_2-ncc-spinaltap-black_album.png?w=1180

Censored by Laurie · August 13, 2015

Oh, I agree. But rhetorically--I'm sure you agree that even if I say something that you really disagree with and is possibly even offensive to you, that it's really not healthy to get all bent out of shape over it, rush over to your group thinking friends and plan for my destruction, professional end, legal squashing or ? Rather than enjoying cold beer in some sort of uneasy truce while wondering where TF I got those dumbass notions and going on with your life?
Unfortunately, the "relax and have a homebrew" response--which used to be the norm--isn't the norm any more. It's "I don't agree with your dumb ass, therefore I am not only not going to listen to you or associate with you, I am going to try to jack you up in any way I can. Because I'm right, and you're wrong."

so we're clear...I essentially live by a "relax and have a drink" mantra.

that said...I think your example is a bit of an over-simplification...not so much that I disagree, but just seeking some clarification. If you want to come over and sit on my porch with a case of shiner and discuss the merits of trickle-down economics, I'll sit and listen to you...challenge you, have my retorts, some of them undoubtedly sarcastic...but we'll likely finish the last beers on good terms talking about something other than politics. I would understand where your thought-process came from.

on the other hand, were you to come over spouting racial epithets I'd have no interest in waiting out a conversation...I'm certainly not the sort to try and get you fired or jack you up (though, I'm probably keeping the shiners)...but not only are we never going to find a common ground, we're never going to find a common understanding of where our thoughts came from.

I mean, even as I'm sitting here re-reading my answer I feel this is too much of an over-simplification as well. In short, I do think people can be offended and find their corners far too quickly...but at the same time I feel they should have an open forum to voice their offence, no matter how micro it may seem. ideally, that would lead to dialogue. ideally...

UNT90 · August 14, 2015

CBL,

Ah, the old passive aggressive liberal, eh? Telling someone that the way they think is wrong and they need to do self examination is insulting, and just a cleaned up way of saying "I don't agree with you therefore you are stupid and need to change the way you think."

And you know it.

Thats why you just wrote a 5 paragraph response. Lol

Edited August 14, 2015 by UNT90

CMJ · August 14, 2015

CBL,

Ah, the old passive aggressive liberal, eh? Telling someone that the way they think is wrong and they need to do self examination is insulting, and just a cleaned up way of saying "I don't agree with you therefore you are stupid and need to change the way you think."
And you know it.

Thats why you just wrote a 5 paragraph response. Lol

Jesus Christ dude, you're basically a walking example of what the article was arguing.

When I lived in Texas, I was more liberal than most I knew. Out in California, I am more conservative than the vast majority of folks I come across. I tend to argue against whichever side makes strident claims.

I think the worst thing to ever happen to political discourse was the internet because it allowed people to go create places like moveon.org or redstate where a bunch of folks get together to get in circular group think to the point where the other side is Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, or some other such over reaction.

Even my own family extended family is like that now. My Aunt won't even talk to my dad because she thinks he's evil. This is her eldest brother - probably looked up to him her whole life...but now she can't stand him because she thinks he's some godless communist or some bullshit like that. This has all been fairly recent. When i was a kid at holidays the grown ups would have political debates, but then everyone would play board games or some sort of bonding thing.

Not they just trade scathing barbs on facebook.

Edited August 14, 2015 by CMJ

UNT90 · August 14, 2015

Jesus Christ dude, you're basically a walking example of what the article was arguing.

When I lived in Texas, I was more liberal than most I knew. Our in California, I am more conservative than the vast majority of folks I come across. I tend to argue against whichever side makes strident claims.

I think the worst thing to ever happen to political discourse was the internet because it allowed people to go create places like moveon.org or redstate where a bunch of folks get together to get in circular group think to the point where the other side is Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, or some other such over reaction.
Even my own family extended family is like that now. My Aunt won't even talk to my dad because she thinks he's evil. This is her eldest brother - probably looked up to him her whole life...but now she can't stand him because she thinks he's some godless communist or some bullshit like that. This has all been fairly recent. When i was a kid at holidays the grown ups would have political debates, but then everyone would play board games or some sort of bonding thing.

Not they just trade scathing barbs on facebook.

I agree with lack of political discourse. It is a recently new thing for conservatives. It's not for liberals. It has been their playbook since the 80s. For instance, in high school I had a conservative history teacher and a very liberal social studies teacher. In the conservative teacher's class, people exchanged ideas in a regular voice tone and if anyone got agitated, he immediately stepped in and shut them down, whether they were conservative or liberal.

Meanwhile in social studies class, the liberal teacher would rant about social issues and I learned real quick that asking a pointed but fair question in an even tone either got you yelled at or sent to the principal for disrupting class.

As I moved on to college (where I had practically zero conservative teachers), I noticed that this pattern continued to varying degrees.

CBL's post is a perfect example. Because I believe differently than he, I need to examine MYSELF. It's really not even his fault. It's what has undoubtedly been drilled into him throughout his academic career.

Yes, conservatives in recent years have learned from liberals that you don't give into anything the other side says and you push your agenda on people any way you can. Sadly, they learned that there is no comprise in liberals. Ever. So political discourse has been set aside. They also learned from liberals that it is an effective way to solidify your base.

Oh, in case you are wondering, this is the only place I discuss politics because I learned from my parents to be polite. Those that have tried to engage me at tailgates simply get deflection and redirection.

And unlike some on here who have come unhinged toward me, you have and will not ever see me do that. Hell, I'd even by Coffee a beer, and that guy is a straight runnin' commie.

SilverEagle · August 14, 2015

Yeah, I see this a lot nowadays. And I don't really get it. I worked in politics in DC for 15 years and for much of that time people of differing political views got along. I was always able to separate politics from personalities. I'm conservative; the best man in my wedding was a liberal. Same today with one of my best friends here. Plus, I live in a pretty diverse area philosophically speaking, so it's important to look past politics and find common ground in other areas.
Someone on this thread mentioned that this kind of polarization has happened before. Agreed -- but very rarely to this degree. Today's polarization reminds me of the 1850s.

Yes, and what happened at the end of that decade of increasing polarization? One thoughtful Historian (I believe it was Shelby Foote) said the Civil War didn't occur because of slavery or differences in economic systems per se. It occurred because America suspended it's greatest political quality......the ability/willingness to compromise.

Edited August 14, 2015 by SilverEagle

Censored by Laurie · August 14, 2015

I agree with lack of political discourse. It is a recently new thing for conservatives. It's not for liberals. It has been their playbook since the 80s. For instance, in high school I had a conservative history teacher and a very liberal social studies teacher. In the conservative teacher's class, people exchanged ideas in a regular voice tone and if anyone got agitated, he immediately stepped in and shut them down, whether they were conservative or liberal.

Meanwhile in social studies class, the liberal teacher would rant about social issues and I learned real quick that asking a pointed but fair question in an even tone either got you yelled at or sent to the principal for disrupting class.

As I moved on to college (where I had practically zero conservative teachers), I noticed that this pattern continued to varying degrees.

CBL's post is a perfect example. Because I believe differently than he, I need to examine MYSELF. It's really not even his fault. It's what has undoubtedly been drilled into him throughout his academic career.

Yes, conservatives in recent years have learned from liberals that you don't give into anything the other side says and you push your agenda on people any way you can. Sadly, they learned that there is no comprise in liberals. Ever. So political discourse has been set aside. They also learned from liberals that it is an effective way to solidify your base.

Oh, in case you are wondering, this is the only place I discuss politics because I learned from my parents to be polite. Those that have tried to engage me at tailgates simply get deflection and redirection.

And unlike some on here who have come unhinged toward me, you have and will not ever see me do that. Hell, I'd even by Coffee a beer, and that guy is a straight runnin' commie.

first off..."Because I believe differently than he, I need to examine MYSELF" ...that's not anywhere near what I said. I wouldn't expect you to ever agree with me. I said that your continued insistence that when things don't align with your ideology that the problem solely lies with society or with an upside-down America is a very narrow and selfish way of thinking.

secondly...to me...it sounds like you had a very good history teacher whereas your social studies teacher just sounds like an asshole...but their politics seem pretty immaterial to their teaching abilities/personalities...which is the case for most if not all people. being liberal or conservative doesn't make you an asshole...being an asshole makes you an asshole. I'm sorry if your high school experience seemingly so greatly influenced your willingness to ascribe personal characteristics to one's politics...but your experience is far from universal.

the only thing that's been "drilled" into me through academia has been reason, not ideology. reading back through everything that I wrote in this thread, it's all been apolitical.

but if you want common ground...I too believe that politics are best not discussed in a social setting. my mama learnt me good, too.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Censored by Laurie

UNT90 · August 14, 2015

first off..."Because I believe differently than he, I need to examine MYSELF" ...that's not anywhere near what I said. I wouldn't expect you to ever agree with me. I said that your continued insistence that when things don't align with your ideology that the problem solely lies with society or with an upside-down America is a very narrow and selfish way of thinking.

secondly...to me...it sounds like you had a very good history teacher whereas your social studies teacher just sounds like an asshole...but their politics seem pretty immaterial to their teaching abilities/personalities...which is the case for most if not all people. being liberal or conservative doesn't make you an asshole...being an asshole makes you an asshole. I'm sorry if your high school experience seemingly so greatly influenced your willingness to ascribe personal characteristics to one's politics...but your experience is far from universal.

the only thing that's been "drilled" into me through academia has been reason, not ideology. reading back through everything that I wrote in this thread, it's all been apolitical.

but if you want common ground...I too believe that politics are best not discussed in a social setting. my mama learnt me good, too.

lol. I think you need to re-read the title of this thread.

And yes, that is exactly what you said, and just said again. Churchin' it up doesn't change the meaning.

And notice I haven't said you need to re-examine yourself because you think everything is ok in today's America (except jokingly in response)? That's because I recognize your right to your own opinion.

Maybe you should try recognizing mine.

oldguystudent · August 14, 2015

Meanwhile in social studies class, the liberal teacher would rant about social issues and I learned real quick that asking a pointed but fair question in an even tone either got you yelled at or sent to the principal for disrupting class.

Same thing happened to both my roommate and me on more than one occasion in high school religion class. Talk about being forbidden from questioning anything. We got sent to clean out the calf pens at a dairy for free quite a few times for questioning biblical interpretations of the church elders.

Like you, the experience taught me to question everything.

UNT90 · August 14, 2015

Same thing happened to both my roommate and me on more than one occasion in high school religion class. Talk about being forbidden from questioning anything. We got sent to clean out the calf pens at a dairy for free quite a few times for questioning biblical interpretations of the church elders.
Like you, the experience taught me to question everything.

and that's perfectly your right.

notice now I don't ask you to examine yourself and change?