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mgfan · August 4, 2015

No it wouldn't. How is a butt kicking from OU at Apogee in front of a 50/50 crowd (at best) more beneficial than a competitive game against another in-state G5 school?

I agree, RV sucks at putting together good schedules, but it's not because we don't play the likes of UT and A&M at home. Lets examine SMU's last two attempts:
2007 vs Texas Tech: Loss 49-9...by the 2nd half the stadium was echoing with the "Raider Power" chant
2012 vs Texas A&M: Loss 48-3...in front of pro Aggie crowd.
Care to explain how these games were beneficial for SMU?

help us by...tickets sales, food sales, beer, parking and if it is a 2 for 1 you might still make money. Remember the big 10 is no longer playing fcs. Big 12 may be following, especially since they don't have a championship game. This in turn can " put the ball in our court" when it comes to negotiating. etc etc.

Also, Is it really different then losing to them on the road and not having them at home. Or better yet, better then losing to utsa at home? We haven't yet to sell out Apogee. A P5 regional school might help us do that. If we are going to play a "body bag game" @ least get 1 at home and bring people in to Apogee.

Cr1028 · August 4, 2015

help us by...tickets sales, food sales, beer, parking and if it is a 2 for 1 you might still make money. Remember the big 10 is no longer playing fcs. Big 12 may be following, especially since they don't have a championship game. This in turn can " put the ball in our court" when it comes to negotiating. etc etc.

Also, Is it really different then losing to them on the road and not having them at home. Or better yet, better then losing to utsa at home? We haven't yet to sell out Apogee. A P5 regional school might help us do that. If we are going to play a "body bag game" @ least get 1 at home and bring people in to Apogee.

I don't want to be outnumbered in our own stadium like the ponies.

mgfan · August 4, 2015

I don't want to be outnumbered in our own stadium like the ponies.

There would be a lot of other fans, but I don't believe we would be out numbered. Again, we average around 20,000 without a P5 school which is more then half. This is all really a moot point anyway until RV actually tries it.

None of those schools have anything to gain by playing us in our stadium. They play in much larger games at Jerry World or the Cotton Bowl. They also don't want to end up like K-State and skate out of our stadium with a slim victory. You same rationale for not playing TxSt is theirs for not playing us. Tech won't play us because we beat them in Lubbock, and Baylor won't because we beat them in our place. They would only schedule us if it is a guaranteed W. I think that is the coward's way out and we should face all-comers

They benefit by filling thier schedules, but you make a good point. I believe those reasons are why we don't play tcu. Just like we don't have a metroplex tourney/ round robin in bball with TCU, UTA and SMU.

Edited August 4, 2015 by mgfan

MeanGreenTexan · August 4, 2015

To those clammoring for TX St 'instead of' the myriad of FCS games we have lined up, you're all showing ignorance on multiple levels.

1. The FCS games are the games we get to counter for the paycheck games we have to schedule to balance the budget. They are affordable to bring in & easy to beat.

2. The FCS games are preferred by McCarney. He's made it very clear he wants them if we're gonna have paycheck games, and we have paycheck games through 2020. I have a feeling McCarney has his reasons for the FCS games.

3. TX St would likely want a home/home, not a paycheck from us. If the return to San Marcos was scheduled before 2020, Voila! We have another 5-home game schedule. Interested in that?

Cr1028 · August 4, 2015

2. The FCS games are preferred by McCarney. He's made it very clear he wants them if we're gonna have paycheck games, and we have paycheck games through 2020. I have a feeling McCarney has his reasons for the FCS games.

Yea, they conceal our piss-poor quarterback play for one week.

MeanGreenTexan · August 5, 2015

Yea, they conceal our piss-poor quarterback play for one week.

Apparently SMU does as well!

DallasGreen · August 5, 2015

Losing to a regional P5 doesn't hurt recruiting? Based on your rationale, we shouldn't even be in CUSA where we could lose to UTSA and Rice. Guess it is back to the Sun Belt for us, oh wait, SWTSU-SM is there. Mountain West anybody? Conversely, if we play and beat Tx State, it could only help our recruiting, no?
I want to play Texas teams because it is exciting and gets more Texans (hello, our recruiting base) talking about us than beating a bad FCS school or getting smoked by a P5 team a thousand miles away.

I would say with our current funding for athletics the SLC is where we belong! Get a comparable student athletic fee to TXST@San Macos and a home and home series would be good for us both. Since you can never depend on the city of Denton or its tight fisted merchants for support, it takes giving from interested alumni and student fees to compete in our own backyard. I again ask the rhetorical question " Why does our BOR fear the students?" Especially when other state schools in Texas charge a reasonable student athletic fee of $20 to $25 per semester hour.

Harry · August 5, 2015

. I again ask the rhetorical question " Why does our BOR fear the students?" Especially when other state schools in Texas charge a reasonable student athletic fee of $20 to $25 per semester hour.

You and UNT90 been beating this drum for awhile now and I will have to tell you it's starting to really get traction with me and others.

UNT90 · August 5, 2015

No it wouldn't. How is a butt kicking from OU at Apogee in front of a 50/50 crowd (at best) more beneficial than a competitive game against another in-state G5 school?

I agree, RV sucks at putting together good schedules, but it's not because we don't play the likes of UT and A&M at home. Lets examine SMU's last two attempts:
2007 vs Texas Tech: Loss 49-9...by the 2nd half the stadium was echoing with the "Raider Power" chant
2012 vs Texas A&M: Loss 48-3...in front of pro Aggie crowd.
Care to explain how these games were beneficial for SMU?

Who cares how it benefits SMU. Let's talk about how those same 2 opponents with those same 2 scores would benefit UNT.

See, we didn't used to be in the SWC. Our alumni, fans, and students aren't used to seeing any better opponent than Houston come to Denton in the history of Apogee stadium (yes, this includes a terrible Indiana team).

The credibility we would earn with our own freaking alumns just by hosting a major P5 is worth the beating we MIGHT take. We are definitely going to take that beating on the road. There is a MUCH greater chance of a breakthrough win at home than on the road.

A lot of our own alumni point and laugh at UNT football. Having what they consider a "real" opponent will turn their heads. It will also turn the heads of students and neutral alums who are only used to seeing no names when checking UNT's home schedule.

So don't compare us to SMU. We are vastly different animals.

UNTcrazy727 · August 5, 2015

Who cares how it benefits SMU. Let's talk about how those same 2 opponents with those same 2 scores would benefit UNT.

See, we didn't used to be in the SWC. Our alumni, fans, and students aren't used to seeing any better opponent than Houston come to Denton in the history of Apogee stadium (yes, this includes a terrible Indiana team).

The credibility we would earn with our own freaking alumns just by hosting a major P5 is worth the beating we MIGHT take. We are definitely going to take that beating on the road. There is a MUCH greater chance of a breakthrough win at home than on the road.

A lot of our own alumni point and laugh at UNT football. Having what they consider a "real" opponent will turn their heads. It will also turn the heads of students and neutral alums who are only used to seeing no names when checking UNT's home schedule.

So don't compare us to SMU. We are vastly different animals.

I'm sorry, but getting killed by 40 pts at Apogee isn't going to change anyone's mind about UNT. This is what would happen, casual UNT alum/fan sees OU is coming to Apogee and thinks, "Oh, that's really cool! UNT is hosting OU at Apogee, I might go!" But when OU fans buy up most of the tickets and the secondary market prices go up to $60-$80 most of our fans don't think it's worth it because they can watch it on TV for free. On a positive note, we do finally sellout Apogee...with the help of about 12K to 15K OU fans. Once the game starts we put up a good fight for 1 or 2 quarters before OU kicks our heads in during the 2nd half. By the 4th quarter most of the fans left are cheering for OU, with "Boomer Sooner" chants echoing throughout Apogee. You're right, that sounds like a sure fire way to build credibility with alumni and casual fans...

Edited August 5, 2015 by UNTcrazy727

Army of Dad · August 5, 2015

I'm sorry, but getting killed by 40 pts at Apogee isn't going to change anyone's mind about UNT. This is what would happen, casual UNT alum/fan sees OU is coming to Apogee and thinks, "Oh, that's really cool! UNT is hosting OU at Apogee, I might go!" But when OU fans buy up most of the tickets and the secondary market prices go up to $60-$80 most of our fans don't think it's worth it because they can watch it on TV for free. On a positive note, we do finally sellout Apogee...with the help of about 12K to 15K OU fans. Once the game starts we put up a good fight for 1 or 2 quarters before OU kicks our heads in during the 2nd half. By the 4th quarter most of the fans left are cheering for OU, with "Boomer Sooner" chants echoing throughout Apogee. You're right, that sounds like a sure fire way to build credibility with alumni and casual fans...

I think Mac pointed out that he's 16-7 at Apogee. It isn't just Buick 2.0, most teams win more at home than on the road, even when paying "superior" opponent.

UNTcrazy727 · August 5, 2015

I think Mac pointed out that he's 16-7 at Apogee. It isn't just Buick 2.0, most teams win more at home than on the road, even when paying "superior" opponent.

I agree, so our chances go from about 5% to 10%. I love those odds!!

Cr1028 · August 5, 2015

Who cares how it benefits SMU. Let's talk about how those same 2 opponents with those same 2 scores would benefit UNT.

See, we didn't used to be in the SWC. Our alumni, fans, and students aren't used to seeing any better opponent than Houston come to Denton in the history of Apogee stadium (yes, this includes a terrible Indiana team).

The credibility we would earn with our own freaking alumns just by hosting a major P5 is worth the beating we MIGHT take. We are definitely going to take that beating on the road. There is a MUCH greater chance of a breakthrough win at home than on the road.

A lot of our own alumni point and laugh at UNT football. Having what they consider a "real" opponent will turn their heads. It will also turn the heads of students and neutral alums who are only used to seeing no names when checking UNT's home schedule.

So don't compare us to SMU. We are vastly different animals.

I think taking a pounding in our own stadium against an OU/UT type would just reinforce the thoughts of the few OU/UT tshirt fans that hang around our campus.

We are diehards but we are the few. Getting our teeth kicked in at home would not make fringe fans want to root for our team one bit.

A lot of our own alumni point and laugh at UNT football. Having what they consider a "real" opponent will turn their heads. It will also turn the heads of students and neutral alums who are only used to seeing no names when checking UNT's home schedule.

You don't think they would point and laugh at a NT team getting beat by 5 or 6 touchdowns in its home stadium? You are right about the head turning. They would turn their head away from NT football and never look back. They would just cheer for the school the grew up cheering for because they would be embarrassed to be a NT fan.

UNT90 · August 5, 2015

Those fans are NEVER going to support UNT, anyway.

But you are right, let's keep doing what we have been doing, because that has worked out SO well.

Eagle1855 · August 5, 2015

How about more NT fan attendance for one? SWTSU-SM would bring more folks to our stadium than Portland State, Liberty, and Incarnate Word combined. Also, we would take more fans to their stadium than we would to Iowa, Tennessee, Florida, and Army combined.

Yes. And the fact that we've historically played SWTSU-SM more than any other program. For a fanbase that is starved for a true rival, I'm surprised so many people are quick to dismiss rekindling this series...

oldguystudent · August 5, 2015

You and UNT90 been beating this drum for awhile now and I will have to tell you it's starting to really get traction with me and others.

Unilaterally squeeze the students for every drop we can get out of them, then turn around and piss on the athletes; tell them to suck it up and accept their scholarships without medical recompense, ability to acquire anything in the way of subsistence outside provided cafeteria food, or ability to move freely about the country as if they were conscripted to government service.

Take money from students, give no money to other students. To what end? What do we want? Nick Saban? Corruption? Cheating?

The reality of college football is that it is something that belongs to the alumni. We are the ones who primarily consume it. We are the ones who demanded a better stadium (don't tell me it was a student vote. Alumni drove that). We are the ones who demand club seats. We are the ones who demand pre-bowl parties at the Omni hotel. We are the ones who demand everything be first class, top level, competitive with the semi-pros of the SEC. We are the ones who enjoy the benefit of that. We are the ones who get to stroke our fragile little egos at the water cooler when we stomp the ponies into the mud.

We are, therefore, the ones who should be paying for this. Us. The alumni. The consumers who demand that everything be bigger, better, shinier.

Surely my situation is unique, but presence or lack of a football team is going to have ZERO effect on choice of college for my kid. ZERO. In fact, if I see some exorbitant athletic fee, it'll be a negative factor in our decision. But that's cool. We want sports fans here in Denton, because that makes...US...the alumni, happy. Back to square one. Who is this whole thing really for? Us. The alumni. But F the students. Make THEM pay for it.

Harry · August 5, 2015

Unilaterally squeeze the students for every drop we can get out of them, then turn around and piss on the athletes; tell them to suck it up and accept their scholarships without medical recompense, ability to acquire anything in the way of subsistence outside provided cafeteria food, or ability to move freely about the country as if they were conscripted to government service.
Take money from students, give no money to other students. To what end? What do we want? Nick Saban? Corruption? Cheating?
The reality of college football is that it is something that belongs to the alumni. We are the ones who primarily consume it. We are the ones who demanded a better stadium (don't tell me it was a student vote. Alumni drove that). We are the ones who demand club seats. We are the ones who demand pre-bowl parties at the Omni hotel. We are the ones who demand everything be first class, top level, competitive with the semi-pros of the SEC. We are the ones who enjoy the benefit of that. We are the ones who get to stroke our fragile little egos at the water cooler when we stomp the ponies into the mud.
We are, therefore, the ones who should be paying for this. Us. The alumni. The consumers who demand that everything be bigger, better, shinier.
Surely my situation is unique, but presence or lack of a football team is going to have ZERO effect on choice of college for my kid. ZERO. In fact, if I see some exorbitant athletic fee, it'll be a negative factor in our decision. But that's cool. We want sports fans here in Denton, because that makes...US...the alumni, happy. Back to square one. Who is this whole thing really for? Us. The alumni. But F the students. Make THEM pay for it.

The problem with your theory is had our administration supported the athletic programs in a respectable way over the many decades prior we would not have such issues with alumni. They did not. Hell man we dropped down to I-AA, look at our counterparts who stuck with I-A like Louisville etc..

The good news is they are now supporting athletics at a reasonable level, have upgraded facilities etc. That does not erase the sins of the past.

The student fee is a way to help us catch up to other programs we are competing against for recruits, facilities, marketing etc.

And no one wants to see us charging more than what other schools of our size are.

We just want to see them invest in the product and hopefully be in a better position to connect with our alumni and donors. They are out there believe me but they have spent much of their adult life being programmed that UNT wasn't really serious about competing at the highest levels.

oldguystudent · August 5, 2015

The problem with your theory is had our administration supported the athletic programs in a respectable way over the many decades prior we would not have such issues with alumni. They did not. Hell man we dropped down to I-AA, look at our counterparts who stuck with I-A like Louisville etc..
The good news is they are now supporting athletics at a reasonable level, have upgraded facilities etc. That does not erase the sins of the past.
The student fee is a way to help us catch up to other programs we are competing against for recruits, facilities, marketing etc.
And no one wants to see us charging more than what other schools of our size are.
We just want to see them invest in the product and hopefully be in a better position to connect with our alumni and donors. They are out there believe me but they have spent much of their adult life being programmed that UNT wasn't really serious about competing at the highest levels.

Let's do a little test. $20 per semester hour for 15 hours per semester = $600 per year, per student. Let's casually ask every member of the mean green club (the defined die hards) to increase their annual contribution by just half that amount and see how they react. So the gainfully employed would most certainly balk at an additional $300 a year, but putting twice that on a bunch of teenagers already straddling themselves with suffocating student debt that will follow them (and potentially their parents' social security payments) for decades to come. Yep. Seems fair and legit. We got ours, right? F 'em!

So, I get the past sins of the administration, but I don't get making the new generations facing exorbitant education costs already pay for those sins. We who lived through and enjoyed the benefits of those sins via debt free education ought to be ponying up today.

Edited August 5, 2015 by oldguystudent

UNTnewbie · August 5, 2015

... Let's casually ask every member of the mean green club (the defined die hards) to increase their annual contribution by just half that amount and see how they react...

This will be happening in the very near future, for HUB Club Members, due to the fact that most of the original Stadium Donations will be paid off within the next year.

GrandGreen · August 5, 2015

@Harry , this would be a GREAT topic to bring up with RV whenever he comes on the podcast. Why are we bringing in the likes of Liberty and Incarnate Word when we have TXST trying to play us?

Comparing apples and oranges unless you think TSt would take a contract to play at Denton only.

GMG24 · August 5, 2015

Let's do a little test. $20 per semester hour for 15 hours per semester = $600 per year, per student. Let's casually ask every member of the mean green club (the defined die hards) to increase their annual contribution by just half that amount and see how they react. So the gainfully employed would most certainly balk at an additional $300 a year, but putting twice that on a bunch of teenagers already straddling themselves with suffocating student debt that will follow them (and potentially their parents' social security payments) for decades to come. Yep. Seems fair and legit. We got ours, right? F 'em!
So, I get the past sins of the administration, but I don't get making the new generations facing exorbitant education costs already pay for those sins. We who lived through and enjoyed the benefits of those sins via debt free education ought to be ponying up today.

um...Student fees went up when I attended, I had 0 problem with it, college athletics is a HUGE part of the college experience even for "normal" students, they want to be able to go enjoy a good tailgate, game, and game day experience even at little ole UNT.

Ben Gooding · August 5, 2015

Let's do a little test. $20 per semester hour for 15 hours per semester = $600 per year, per student. Let's casually ask every member of the mean green club (the defined die hards) to increase their annual contribution by just half that amount and see how they react. So the gainfully employed would most certainly balk at an additional $300 a year, but putting twice that on a bunch of teenagers already straddling themselves with suffocating student debt that will follow them (and potentially their parents' social security payments) for decades to come. Yep. Seems fair and legit. We got ours, right? F 'em!
So, I get the past sins of the administration, but I don't get making the new generations facing exorbitant education costs already pay for those sins. We who lived through and enjoyed the benefits of those sins via debt free education ought to be ponying up today.

Raising the student fee would be matching our conference peers. Nothing more. Please quit acting like this increase is going to increase our tuition to Dartmouth-type tuition. We're an inexpensive university that will still remain inexpensive with an increase.

oldguystudent · August 6, 2015

I challenge anyone here to prove to me that a student fee increase is not a big deal by matching any increase, dollar for dollar, based on two 15-hour semesters per year, above and beyond what you currently give.

Put your money where your mouth is, and your argument will hold more water.

"Everybody else is doing it" is one of the weakest arguments of rationale in the books.

GMG24 · August 6, 2015

I challenge anyone here to prove to me that a student fee increase is not a big deal by matching any increase, dollar for dollar, based on two 15-hour semesters per year, above and beyond what you currently give.
Put your money where your mouth is, and your argument will hold more water.
"Everybody else is doing it" is one of the weakest arguments of rationale in the books.

yeah... And feeling bad for a college student isn't?? Give me a break. You on the same fence that says screw the athlete and cost of attendance too?? The argument for raising student fees has ZERO to do with my giving level, and where my current income level dictates what I give. Raising the student fee by 20 bucks raises our schools tuition by x amount 300 bucks a semester you say. You telling me the grant/scholarship/loan money out there won't see the rise in cost and the students situation to dictate what financial assistance they need? Be serious.

Also, I would LOVE for the university paper to ask the students vote on raising student fees to be able to bump our facilities etc for student athletes and what percentage would be in favor of approximately 300 per semester, ASSUMING they take 15 hours. Seriously, anyone got a connection at the Daily?? As much buy in as the previous 3 freshman classes have had, I would be willing to bet a pretty penny Mac has won over that vote by a landslide.

Edited August 6, 2015 by GMG24

oldguystudent · August 6, 2015

my current income level dictates what I give.

We shall, however, take zero consideration as to the overall cost of attendance and average income for the students though, right? F 'em. We got ours. $300 ain't that big of an increase. Let's see you match it, big spender.

Edit: Aw, Harry, did you go and delete the fun posts that followed this one? It was just getting exciting around here!

Edited August 6, 2015 by oldguystudent