UNT will determine COA stipends soon

GMG24 · July 26, 2015

http://web.stanford.edu/~islander/jobrules.html

to me it reads they can bring home 2,000 during an academic year, and this is stanfords website I pulled, couldn't find anything on our website. So, you're in favor of having them work and set up a Rhett Bomar situation for the big P5 bullies. Instead of a numerical value that's a determined fixed rate (per school)? Hmm.

Graddean · July 26, 2015

You want to feel sorry for abused students then look at the TAs. They actually produce money for the general budget. They get no perks. Obviously, athletes have plenty of extra time. We have had several with plenty of time to shop at WalMart. Most athletic programs don't pa their. And contribute very little to the educational budget. I will save my sympathy for the single mother getting no child support and holding down two par time jobs.

GMG24 · July 26, 2015

You want to feel sorry for abused students then look at the TAs. They actually produce money for the general budget. They get no perks. Obviously, athletes have plenty of extra time. We have had several with plenty of time to shop at WalMart. Most athletic programs don't pa their. And contribute very little to the educational budget. I will save my sympathy for the single mother getting no child support and holding down two par time jobs.

yes, that's what we've compared it to.

UNT90 · July 26, 2015

They are already being paid, what, 12k a year here? 30-40k at schools like SMU and TCU? Is that what tuition costs now a days?

Now, let's talk about what the players are getting in the opportunity (they don't always take it) to greatly increase their future earning potential by obtaining a college degree, something some could not have done without having the bills paid, and all of them had the choice to play or not play.

Now, throw on top of that the cost of free tutoring sessions received (which I don't ever recall receiving as a regular college student).

So, ya, guys getting a free education to play a game are making out pretty well.

And meanwhile, while we fight about this, the P5s are already finding ways to increase the "cost of attendance," or whatever they are calling paying amateur athletes nowadays.

On 7/26/2015 at 2:56 PM, Cerebus said:

I'll be for the players having to do that as soon as RV, Coach Mac and College Gameday Crew also have to.

they did. When they were in college. And what they learned, experienced in college helped get them to the position they are today.

So...

oldguystudent · July 26, 2015

Players use to be kind of hesitant to decommit from us for the likes of Tech, Colorado, IA St., Indiana etc. This all but ensures we will NEVER get any of those players, ever again.

This is what this entire argument really boils down to, right? In our heart of hearts, we know with certainty that UNT is never gonna be the school to pay the big bucks. This stipend thing is a near guarantee that we well never be able to play with the big boys. That hurts our fandom water cooler ego, and dammit, we deserve better!

Ben Gooding · July 26, 2015

This is what this entire argument really boils down to, right? In our heart of hearts, we know with certainty that UNT is never gonna be the school to pay the big bucks. This stipend thing is a near guarantee that we well never be able to play with the big boys. That hurts our fandom water cooler ego, and dammit, we deserve better!

Not our ego, but our chances of ever being relevant. Every program in the G5 hopes and dreams and making it to the big show, this solidifies it will never happen. To hell with ego, this is bigger than that.

UNT90 · July 26, 2015

http://web.stanford.edu/~islander/jobrules.html

to me it reads they can bring home 2,000 during an academic year, and this is stanfords website I pulled, couldn't find anything on our website. So, you're in favor of having them work and set up a Rhett Bomar situation for the big P5 bullies. Instead of a numerical value that's a determined fixed rate (per school)? Hmm.

no, I'm in favor of the G5s getting together and filing a class action lawsuit against the P5 AND the NCAA for allowing the establishment of a monopoly.

But it will never happen because G5s care more about whoring themselves for a paycheck and hoping to be given some crumbs instead of standing up as a group to the bullies (P5) and the enablers (NCAA). Look no further than UNT's 2015 schedule for proof.

Edited July 26, 2015 by UNT90

ChristopherRyanWilkes · July 26, 2015

They already have...when THEY were in college, paying they're dues.

They in turn, used they're education, experiences and life lessons learned to land they're chosen careers.

Rick

Are you doing this on purpose or what's going on here?

FirefightnRick · July 26, 2015

Drama Queen much? College isn't supposed to be easy. The life lessons learned by, I don't know, working a job in the offseason and saving money to have during the season just aren't that important, eh?

True, regular students may be able to work more, but then again they aren't getting FREE TUITION! Something you must have forgotten.

This is has nothing to do with "providing for" athletes and everything to do with starting a salary system that can be increased once the media accepts it. The P5 will then use it to drive G5s to drop a level and thus make sure the P5 gets every crumb of the college pie.

Those who buy the crap that this is about college athletes finally getting what is coming to them are falling for this BS hook, line, and sinker.

Yes, athletes will eventually end up getting paid, but only athletes that play for P5 programs. So what you are clamoring for will end up hurting the majority of college athletes. G5s will lose support, they will drop down to FCS (who offer less scholarships) or they will form an in between sub division that will no doubt offer less scholarships.

Sure, it's great for the super athlete who will get paid, but what about the low income athlete that is a marginal talent? He not only doesn't get paid, but doesn't get the opportunity to go to college.

But, by all means, keep on believing this is about the injustice done to the college athlete. While you are at it, you ought to just go ahead and purchase season tickets for UT football, because that is who you are ultimately supporting with this opinion.

Excellent post.

Are you doing this on purpose or what's going on here?

Yes.

Rick

Edited July 26, 2015 by FirefightnRick

Zeleny' Orel · July 27, 2015

Just wanted to add some items to the discussion.

Cost of college attendance and a full ride scholarship are not usually the same thing. When the federal government computes the financial need of a student, it uses the cost of college attendance amount. This is why the financial aid offers to students differ from college to college. The U.S Government uses this basic fact:

Cost of College Attendance (varies by college)

MINUS Family's Ability to Pay (constant regardless of college choice)

EQUALS Financial Need (varies by college) and the amount for which financial aid is sought (financial aid package may include scholarships, loans, work study or a combination of them). Personally I always considered student athletes as technically being the same as "work/study students" as they "work" for the university).

While a full ride scholarship usually includes only tuition and fees, room and board and books, the U.S. Department of Education includes the following when determining Cost of College Attendance:

Tuition

Books and School Supplies (i.e. book bags, notebooks, pens and pencils, paper and computer paper, desk accessories, such as folders, trays, ad pen holders)

Fees (activity, parking, lab, etc.)

Equipment and Room Materials (i.e. computer and printer, reading lamps, microwave, refrigerator, bed sheets, towels)

Travel (transportation costs for commuters, transportation home during school breaks for campus residents)

Misc. Expenses (i.e. clothing, toiletries, mobile phone costs)

Colleges normally compute their own costs of attendance, publish, and submit them and that figure is used for all students applying for financial aid to that college. I am assuming that this is the amount being used to determine the stipend being offered by each college (the cost of attending their college minus what the amount they have been giving as a "full ride scholarship"). That would explain why there is a different stipend amount for different colleges.

Not sure this changes anyone's opinion on the matter, but I do believe it shows there are some basic methods being used to determine the stipend amount.

UNT90 · July 27, 2015

no we won't. But we will only be giving out 65-70 scholarships after a G5 drop down or creation of an in between classification.

Oh, and one of the things the new classification won't do is pay a COA. So, again, you are basically cheering for the P5 conferences when you don't see the bigger picture of what is inevitably coming.

Remember the OU court decision that said they could negotiate their own contract? Or when the BCS was first formed? Who took full advantage and did everything to lock the G5s out? This is just a much bolder expansion of the breakaway plan. What will we do for budget when we can't whore ourselves anymore? We cut schollies and move down.

So how about the 10-15 kids that get screwed out of an education every year?

Ben Gooding · July 27, 2015

no we won't. But we will only be giving out 65-70 scholarships after a G5 drop down or creation of an in between classification.

Oh, and one of the things the new classification won't do is pay a COA. So, again, you are basically cheering for the P5 conferences when you don't see the bigger picture of what is inevitably coming.

Remember the OU court decision that said they could negotiate their own contract? Or when the BCS was first formed? Who took full advantage and did everything to lock the G5s out? This is just a much bolder expansion of the breakaway plan. What will we do for budget when we can't whore ourselves anymore? We cut schollies and move down.

So how about the 10-15 kids that get screwed out of an education every year?

They don't understand the magnitude of this whole ordeal.

Harry · July 27, 2015

A few thoughts from Vito:

First off, it’s not going to be the end of the world for UNT — and it could help the program. UNT is in the position to offer full-cost-of-attendance scholarships to all its athletes. There is a good chance that the scholarships UNT offers will come in with a higher value than some of its competitors in Conference USA and beyond.

read more: http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/07/coa-stipends-my-take.html/

FirefightnRick · July 27, 2015

The idea of athletes playing for nothing more than the glory of their school is an antiquated notion.

Who has ever claimed this notion? Certainly not the decades of NCAA advertising ads giving example after example of the "Student Athlete" who studied, played for their school to pay for their education then parlayed that education into some profession...(doctors, lawyers, researchers, teachers...etc).

Rick

Censored by Laurie · July 27, 2015

No. Paying players money is dumb. Most of your oponions are likewise.
These dudes (specifically at football factories, but not exclusively though) can't seem to stay out of serious trouble as is. Now we're going to start giving them money to use for their shanannigans? It's bullshit. Universities do not need one player. Every single one of them are replaceable at the drop of a hat. They (the players & universities) need to realize that. If a player doesn't like it, bye Felicia.

needs more machismo and cussin'.

oldguystudent · July 27, 2015

needs more machismo and cussin'.

My but how angry we get over a few teenage boys tossing around an inflated pig bladder.

Censored by Laurie · July 27, 2015

Who has ever claimed this notion? Certainly not the decades of NCAA advertising ads giving example after example of the "Student Athlete" who studied, played for their school to pay for their education then parlayed that education into some profession...(doctors, lawyers, researchers, teachers...etc).

Rick

I wonder how much the NCAA advertising budget is...

forevereagle · July 27, 2015

Who has ever claimed this notion? Certainly not the decades of NCAA advertising ads giving example after example of the "Student Athlete" who studied, played for their school to pay for their education then parlayed that education into some profession...(doctors, lawyers, researchers, teachers...etc).
Rick

And the NCAA has proven to be so honest, even handed, and transparent about the situation, so why wouldn't we trust them?

GrandGreen · July 27, 2015

I keep seeing this stipend issue as being something many oppose on this board and the typical rationale is that athletes don't deserve or need it. Support for that view is that I and most students did not have any help and I salved my way through school.

Number one unless you played college athletics, you have a limited idea of what goes into it. Anyone who thinks a D1 athlete has time to work meaningful hours is not being realistic. Summer school and workouts are for all practical purposes now mandatory.

Yes, major league baseball players once had to work off season to earn a living. Also in the past, you could actually earn enough money while going through college to pay for your education. Those days are long gone.

The debate whether athletes deserve or need additional payouts is over. The decision has been made and now there is only one choice if an university wants to remain in D1 and that is to pay a competitive stipend. Athletes overall don't have to have stipends as the truly needy already get Pell grants and even travel money, but that is no longer the question.

Aldo · July 27, 2015

What kind of money are we talking about here? $1,800 to $5,000 per student, per year in Conference USA?

How much is that a month...a cell phone bill?

UNT90 · July 27, 2015

I keep seeing this stipend issue as being something many oppose on this board and the typical rationale is that athletes don't deserve or need it. Support for that view is that I and most students did not have any help and I salved my way through school.
Number one unless you played college athletics, you have a limited idea of what goes into it. Anyone who thinks a D1 athlete has time to work meaningful hours is not being realistic. Summer school and workouts are for all practical purposes now mandatory.
Yes, major league baseball players once had to work off season to earn a living. Also in the past, you could actually earn enough money while going through college to pay for your education. Those days are long gone.
The debate whether athletes deserve or need additional payouts is over. The decision has been made and now there is only one choice if an university wants to remain in D1 and that is to pay a competitive stipend. Athletes overall don't have to have stipends as the truly needy already get Pell grants and even travel money, but that is no longer the question.

so all walk ons have rich parents? Life is hard. Suck it up and do what you have to do in order to do what you want to do.

And let's be crystal clear. I don't oppose it because I think athletes are lazy. I oppose it because it will be used eventually as a way to pay a salary to college players and drive G5s to a lower division.

Jeez, next thing you know people will want to give college athletes welfare payments.

oldguystudent · July 27, 2015

Step 1) Players don't deserve shit.

Step 2) RAISE THE STUDENT ATHLETIC FEE!

Step 3) ?????

Step 4) National Championship BABY!

forevereagle · July 27, 2015

Jeez, next thing you know people will want to give college athletes welfare payments.

Hooray for unrealistic logic leaps!

TIgreen01 · July 27, 2015

So...4 pages into this....has UNT publicly disclosed what our COA will be or even when they will make the announcement??

Cerebus · July 27, 2015

They already have...when THEY were in college, paying they're dues.

They in turn, used they're education, experiences and life lessons learned to land they're chosen careers.

Rick

RV was never a scholarship athlete and Mac played before NCAA v. Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma (1984). The money in the sport was entirely different before the schools themselves could sell their TV rights.

Coach Mac played for Frank Lauterbur, now I can't find any salary info for Coach Lauterbur, but I can tell you that in 1973 Barry Switzer was being paid $24,000 by the University of Oklahoma.

This is now a BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY, it's not the same sport. Billions are being made, the players deserve a little tiny piece of it.

-----

Just to add:

Barry Switzer's 1973 $24,000 salary is CPI inflation adjusted to $128,993.51 in today dollars. Bob Stoops current salary is is forty one times higher than that CPI adjustment. Even Coach Mac at little ol North Texas gets paid five times as much.

The money is completely different now. Yes, in the sixties getting a paid education was probably a fair trade. Now, with everyone else but the players making a ton of money, it's not.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Cerebus