Gary Patterson Foundation fundraiser at Joe T's

UNT90 · July 14, 2015

Fort Wort mayor Betsy Price in attendance.

Wondering when the last time the mayor of Denton supported UNT athletics in any way.

Maybe he does and no one ever talks about it?

Edited July 14, 2015 by UNT90

drex · July 14, 2015

Mayor Bob Castleberry did a lot for us when he was Mayor in the late 80's...let us use him in newspaper ads, gave a full scholarship each year to UNT and TWU, hosted and gave a welcoming address to the Kilgore Rangerettes and the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders when they performed at halftime of a basketball game and was always at our athletic auctions. I think that Mayor Brock and her husband are good donors to athletics, as well...not much lately, I'd guess.

KRAM1 · July 14, 2015

Mayor Bob Castleberry did a lot for us when he was Mayor in the late 80's...let us use him in newspaper ads, gave a full scholarship each year to UNT and TWU, hosted and gave a welcoming address to the Kilgore Rangerettes and the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders when they performed at halftime of a basketball game and was always at our athletic auctions. I think that Mayor Brock and her husband are good donors to athletics, as well...not much lately, I'd guess.

the Brock's remain VERY active in and supportive of the Mean Green to this day...and in many other areas of UNT.

If UNT90 spent more time being involved and less time trying to point out deficiencies with HIS University he would know that about the Brocks and know that Denton Mayors appear at many UNT sponsored events...not just athletics. But, that would not fit his agenda of all bad all the time at UNT.

UNT90 · July 14, 2015

the Brock's remain VERY active in and supportive of the Mean Green to this day...and in many other areas of UNT.
If UNT90 spent more time being involved and less time trying to point out deficiencies with HIS University he would know that about the Brocks and know that Denton Mayors appear at many UNT sponsored events...not just athletics. But, that would not fit his agenda of all bad all the time at UNT.

actually just a question.

Don't be so defensive.

I used to be more involved. Became discouraged with the VAST acceptance of the status quo, so I moved on.

Not like it hasn't happened before.

Edited July 14, 2015 by UNT90

greenjoe · July 14, 2015

Mayor Chris Watts is an NT alum and lives just down Bonnie Brae from Apogee. I'll find out how involved he is now and report back.

GO MEAN GREEN

foutsrouts · July 14, 2015

I have a cousin who was formerly on the city council for several years, and he and his family have always been strong supporters of NT athletics. I saw some of them at a family reunion the other day, and they did say that they haven't really been much into NT basketball since JJ left, but I don't think that's exactly breaking news where most are concerned.

I do feel though that the overall support from the city and population in general has always been weak at best. It sure would be nice if we could figure out a way to mobilize that large and ever growing citizenry of Denton County. I know that if I lived in or around Denton and had no affiliation to the university, that I would at least catch some weekday basketball games just to see some basketball, but maybe that's just me.

Side Show Joe · July 14, 2015

Fort Wort mayor Betsy Price in attendance.

Wondering when the last time the mayor of Denton supported UNT athletics in any way.

Maybe he does and no one ever talks about it?

I'm sure the mayor of Denton publicly supports UNT every chance he gets. The difference is Denton doesn't have television stations to report it.

Side Show Joe · July 14, 2015

Said this before and will say it again...
Until UNT embraces Denton culture and stops being adversarial with the arty culture of the town, we will simply not draw Denton. Until UNT is willing to embrace the bearded hipster clientele, we will never draw the casual fan in the city. And DFW is a lost cause.
That is why my marketing plan would be to aim directly at towns north of Denton who are far from DFW and OU, but will support college football. If we're not gonna have Midlake perform on the Hill and John Williams running a craft bar at Apogee, we need to tell Gainsville that we are North Texas' team.
Continuing to beg and plead to DFW to come is a waste of time, IMO.
Not what snobs like GreenMachine want to hear, but that's the reality. Why did UTSA do so well? They embrace the tejano culture. TCU has thrived by embracing the typical middle class Fort Worth suburb families. We haven't figured our target market.
It's not really a marketing problem though, it's an entire direction problem. I do think we will be taking baby steps towards becoming one with Denton's culture this season, but that's just a rumor.
Just my two cents.

I agree with some of your post. I don't want North Texas to pander to the artsy crowd or any other non-football demographic, and get the focus away from football, but I do see the value in targeting football fans from counties around Denton. There are enough football fans in the towns of McKinney, Gainsville, Decatur, and the small towns in between. We can fill Apogee if we appeal to those football fans. As long as Apogee is selling out, North Texas will receive more positive attention from the DFW media.

UNT90 · July 14, 2015

TCU has thrived by embracing the typical middle class Fort Worth suburb families.

that's just funny right there...

GrandGreen · July 14, 2015

Said this before and will say it again...
Until UNT embraces Denton culture and stops being adversarial with the arty culture of the town, we will simply not draw Denton. Until UNT is willing to embrace the bearded hipster clientele, we will never draw the casual fan in the city. And DFW is a lost cause.
That is why my marketing plan would be to aim directly at towns north of Denton who are far from DFW and OU, but will support college football. If we're not gonna have Midlake perform on the Hill and John Williams running a craft bar at Apogee, we need to tell Gainsville that we are North Texas' team.
Continuing to beg and plead to DFW to come is a waste of time, IMO.
Not what snobs like GreenMachine want to hear, but that's the reality. Why did UTSA do so well? They embrace the tejano culture. TCU has thrived by embracing the typical middle class Fort Worth suburb families. We haven't figured our target market.
It's not really a marketing problem though, it's an entire direction problem. I do think we will be taking baby steps towards becoming one with Denton's culture this season, but that's just a rumor.
Just my two cents.

Denton's arty culture is because of NT, not the other way around. I also question your assessment of why TCU and UTSA do well. TCU has been a traditional National power in a much larger city who is winning a whole of games that appeals to most college football fans. UTSA still as to prove they are legit, they benefited from all the hype and excitement of a new program in a giant City. They did a lot of things right, but the new is already wearing off. They also won a lot more early games than most fans predicted. It also helps that they started with very cheap available tickets.

NT's attendance issues are far from unique particularly in the G5. There are some teams such as East Carolina and Boise that do well, but most are right there with NT, One problem is that almost everyone inflates their attendance, some by amazing amounts; so basing anything on announced attendance is foolish.

KRAM1 · July 14, 2015

actually just a question.
Don't be so defensive.
I used to be more involved. Became discouraged with the VAST acceptance of the status quo, so I moved on.

Not like it hasn't happened before.

So, why don't you stop trying to make everything about UNT so negative. I'm not trying to be defensive, just trying to counter your constant "everything is bad all the time at UNT and every other university does it better" crap with some facts instead of the mis-information and innuendo you like to spread.

You are like the few who still post in the meanandgreen board. They all seem to say they want nothing to do with UNT, find everything wrong they can, pat each other on the back for knowing the "true story", yet they continue to post on a UNT fan board all the same. They seem so proud to tell each other that they no longer support UNT as if that is some badge of courage or something or if they just want to justify their non-support. Why the personal need to diss your own university? Is it some sort of ego thing? Just go buy a t-shirt from some school you DO want to follow, or some high school, get on their board and tell 'em how wonderful they are. I think we all get your deal here.

Heck, my Ohio State friend has invited me to "The Shoe" for a game this year. Guess what? In upper tier seating the tickets are $150.00, and Ohio State has just started raising the prices for this one along with tickets to the Mich. St. And Penn St. games AFTER they came on the market. Yep...they are big time, so they watch demand and if it looks good they just raise ticket prices AFTER announcing original prices. Cool, huh? Am sure you are all for that because they do everything right. As my friend said...they can do whatever they want as the demand is there and they really don't care about the individual fan. By the way, the $150 is a bargain compared to the price for those with PSL's (personal seat licenses). no, not comparing UNT's product with OSU's, just pointing out that "big time" programs can be pretty darn fan un-friendly. Raising prices after announcing ticket sales and after sensing demand is pretty crappy to the fan in my opinion, but heck, it must be perfect in your world because it isn't UNT so it must be good. Geeeeeeezzzzzzz, Louise.

UNTexas · July 14, 2015

I don't know about all the marketing banter but there are two things that stick out to me. 1. If UNT would win, then people would come watch them play. If TCU had our record, they'd have attendance problems. Especially if they were still in CUSA. 2. Joe T Garcia's was sold to me as the greatest fajitas of all time. Total rubbish. I could have gone to Hacienda Ranch 30 seconds from my house for better fajitas. Their standard Mexican food was not good either but I'm from El Paso.

Edited July 14, 2015 by UNTexas
Correction

oldguystudent · July 14, 2015

Their standard Mexican food was not good either but I'm from El Paso.

Well there's your problem. You're used to MEXICAN food. Come out here and get this deep fried God knows what doused in liquid cheese byproduct, it simply doesn't compare.

MeanGreenTexan · July 14, 2015

Denton's arty culture is because of NT, not the other way around. I also question your assessment of why TCU and UTSA do well. TCU has been a traditional National power in a much larger city who is winning a whole of games that appeals to most college football fans. UTSA still as to prove they are legit, they benefited from all the hype and excitement of a new program in a giant City. They did a lot of things right, but the new is already wearing off. They also won a lot more early games than most fans predicted. It also helps that they started with very cheap available tickets.
NT's attendance issues are far from unique particularly in the G5. There are some teams such as East Carolina and Boise that do well, but most are right there with NT, One problem is that almost everyone inflates their attendance, some by amazing amounts; so basing anything on announced attendance is foolish.

I thought this was generally understood. Guess not.

I always kindof thought that since Denton had 2 Universities, the City could not throw their public support behind 1 moreso than the other, for fear of being unjust.
I don't know if it's still a possibility, but the sooner UNT buys out or otherwise brings TWU into the UNT System, the quicker this problem may be alleviated.

meangreen15 · July 14, 2015

I don't know about all the marketing banter but there are two things that stick out to me. 1. If UNT would win, then people would come watch them play. If TCU had our record, they'd have attendance problems. Especially if they were still in CUSA. 2. Joe T Garcia's was sold to me as the greatest fajitas of all time. Total rubbish. I could have gone to Hacienda Ranch 30 seconds from my house for better fajitas. Their standard Mexican food was not good either but I'm from El Paso.

Anyone who told you that Joe T's has the greatest fajitas of all time had a few too many margs that night. The food is good, but there's nothing that really sets it apart from other places. When you go there it's all about good drinks and a fun atmosphere.

Harry · July 14, 2015

If UNT has success you will see Denton throw more support their way. One winning season in a decade doesn't build support.

untjim1995 · July 14, 2015

I don't know that Denton would support a winner anymore than they did in the Fry years or the Dickey SBC run or even in 2013. Each season had one game that drew a pretty nice crowd, but the others were fairly average to below average in attendance. Of course, we don't know until we do win, and maybe the CUSA teams will bring more folks out if we were to ever win consistently. We certainly know it didn't happen in the SBC. But again, at the G5 level, it all really boils down to who you play at home that drives attendance. You get a local or state school in here, we draw well. You get a small time, directional school from the Southeast, not so much. Until the entire G5 realizes this, you are going to continue seeing teams chasing the P5 carrot that probably isn't ever going to be caught.

What I think is that the G5s will eventually get some Big XII teams added to their mix--probably Baylor, TCU, and ISU, with KSU, OSU, and Texas Tech as possible additions, as well, although not probable. I can see the Big XII conference staying around, just not as a Power League anymore, but siphoning off teams from the AAC and CUSA. A conference up of TCU, Baylor, Houston, Iowa State, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, UTSA, UTEP, Memphis, Cincy, USF, UCF and any other leftover(s) from the old Big XII. It would be a great non-power league and cut down on the travel that the AAC and CUSA teams face.

You'd probably see the AAC and CUSA combine after this, to split between two divisions, and UConn will probably get added to a Power League, while Navy would probably go back to being independent. AACUSA would like this:

American Division

Marshall, Temple, ODU, ECU, Charlotte, FIU, FAU

CUSA Divsion

UAB, USM, MUTS, Rice, UNT, WKU, La Tech

Possible additions would include Texas State and ULL, which would move MUTS and WKU to the American Division.

SilverEagle · July 14, 2015

Denton's arty culture is because of NT, not the other way around.

Ding, ding, ding......good assessment. I'll say this again for the umpteenth time.....IT'S OUR CULTURE FOLKS! UNT has FOR DECADES been led/administered by Presidents/BOR's who regarded sports as just a step above (if that) intramural sports. IMHO, UNT has historically presented itself to the community as a source of education-for-the-masses, and free cultural events. And while there is nothing wrong with providing the community with free cultural events, the problem is that sports has always been part of the package.

I always kindof thought that since Denton had 2 Universities, the City could not throw their public support behind 1 moreso than the other, for fear of being unjust.

This has always been the line we get from some businesses in Denton when they are approached to do something even as simple as displaying a NT football schedule. My wife is a TWU grad. She lived on campus and was the editor of the school paper during her senior year. Every time she hears that line/excuse put out by the local business people she always says that that is pure rationalizing bull$hit. She just thinks they are just lazy and/or indifferent. While she does believe that all college sports should be intramural sports, she says that until such time that TWU also fields a football team, TWU does not resent any support that the local community might provide for NT sports.

but I do see the value in targeting football fans from counties around Denton. There are enough football fans in the towns of McKinney, Gainsville, Decatur, and the small towns in between. We can fill Apogee if we appeal to those football fans.

Ding, ding, ding! I have also stated many times before that this was the attitude of Hayden Fry when he took over. And towards that end, he would have spirit caravans go out to the various local communities, set up on their town square, and have a mini pep-rally. And then have the cheerleaders go around to all the businesses on the square passing out schedules and applications for season tickets. The message was always "we are YOUR University, and we want you to be part of our football program. We want, and need, your support!"

Hayden Fry had the same philosophy as my mother, who used to say "you'll never get what you really want unless you speak up and ask for it." And I would add "again and again and again....."

greenit · July 14, 2015

Even TCU has problems with attendance. You can't believe what you read with regards to reported attendance. Schools that have large season ticket bases are somewhat shielded because they reports some variation off of tickets sold + some fudge factor. If season ticket sales are high enough then it does not hurt too bad when people don't show up. The problem is not unique to UNT. It does not good to constantly belittle our own university and then complain that outsiders don't respect us.

Here is a link to a Star Telegram story about TCU's awesome attendance not getting in line with their winning ways.

http://sportsblogs.star-telegram.com/mac-engel/2014/08/how-tcus-players-see-the-attendance-issue.html

untjim1995 · July 14, 2015

TCU, by itself, and even with Ft. Worth's help, won't ever average more than about 30k in attendance, as evidenced by their MWCUSA days. But now that they get Texas, OU, Texas Tech, Baylor, and Okie Lite every other year to visit FW, they will continue to see bigger attendance figues, especially if it means getting into the playoff. Add in biannual visits from SMU, which their students,alumni, and the citizens of FW still care about and hate, they get about 3-4 home games a year against teams that either bring fans or get the public's interest in going to AGC Stadium.

Winning is obviously the first part of the equation, but the second part is who you play. They get revenue just from all of the other conference school's fans coming into town.

I like TCU--I grew up in FW, watched them struggle mightily in the SWC, then watched them rise from the SWC ashes to prominence that miraculously got them in the Big XII. How long that lasts, who knows. But they are the poster child, along with Utah, of how winning big in football can truly change the entire university's status among the public. Without question, they are the two biggest winners in conference realignment, along with Rutgers and Louisville. I've always felt that their MWC halcyon days could be duplicated again by a Texas school playing teams out west that are respected names in college football but don't have the talent on their rosters that a Texas school would have. I guess it remians to be seen if that is true or if it was just a perfect situation for TCU only to take advantage of back then.

SilverEagle · July 14, 2015

Heck, my Ohio State friend has invited me to "The Shoe" for a game this year. Guess what? In upper tier seating the tickets are $150.00, and Ohio State has just started raising the prices for this one along with tickets to the Mich. St. And Penn St. games AFTER they came on the market. Yep...they are big time, so they watch demand and if it looks good they just raise ticket prices AFTER announcing original prices.

$150 is ridiculous, but on the other hand you get a REAL college football show (game day, pre-game, and half time) for your money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B047IxMn5ak

....and their signature "script"

greenjoe · July 14, 2015

Gosh that's cool. With over 400 members in the Green Brigade, we could script out the "University of North Texas, Denton, Texas 76201."

Edited July 14, 2015 by greenjoe
opps

SilverEagle · July 14, 2015

Gosh that's cool. With over 400 members in the Green Brigade, we could script out the "University of North Texas, Denton, Texas 76201."

Funny. However, they can't even come up with a real college band grand entrance, much less a signature/iconic formation. BUT as long as they mainly regard their participation at the football game as practice for their participation in some band contest in the fall rather than providing the North Texas students and alumni with a true game day experience/celebration, they will always underachieve as a true spirit organization for our University.

Side Show Joe · July 14, 2015

It's true, though.
50,000 fans, plenty who have not gone to TCU, who root for TCU as if they're their team.
I guess I don't see the big deal with making football games a part of an all day party. I think if we want Denton to embrace us, we need to do that.

I believe any community "party" could be part of the "Game Day Experience". See in my view, allowing any of the home football games to take a second billing to another event in Denton, would equate to diminishing the value of a game day at Apogee. And, that sounds bad to me.

A game day at Apogee is the best weekend value in Denton. It's cheap, and it's fun. We don't need to pander to other events. We just need to get people out to tailgate and watch our games. Once they stand on their feet and scream as loud as they can during a critical 3rd down and watch the Mean Green defense get a stop, all the real football fans will be hooked. Just ask anyone that was there on Halloween for the Rice game.

I guess we just have different opinions.