Remind me of why it's impossible again

greenminer · July 2, 2015

What would our attendance figures have to be like to equate to these road paycheck games? What is the max revenue we could possibly generate off of ticket sales alone?

Other questions come to mind:

What % of total seating are season ticket holders for high-revenue programs? 50%? 90%? How do we compare as of 2014 sales?

Ben Gooding · July 2, 2015

You're not in the minority or at least you shouldn't be. UTSA is sacrificing a potential 5 home game schedule in the future to play these quality opponents. We are on the brink of having two 5 home game schedules in 4 years with little to show for it. I would much rather be in utsa's scheduling dilemma than ours.

Withers940 · July 2, 2015

This is UTSA's home out of conference opponents the last three years.
2013- Ok State, Houston
2014- Arizona, New Mexico
2015- Kansas State, Colorado State
"But Emmitt, it's from 2 for 1's that will give them an unbalanced schedule.."
SIX home games every one of those years. And we can't (don't) manage that with a schedule that includes Portland State?!

I nominate Emmitt for President!!

Side Show Joe · July 2, 2015

We could accomplish the same against Idaho, NMSU, or maybe San Jose St.

I think those teams would want return games now. Idaho was desperate to fill their schedule back when we hosted them. But, like I stated, we need name P5s playing us on our turf too.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Side Show Joe

Rudy · July 3, 2015

I'm fine with return games. I think that would be a good replacement for the Portland States of the world. And I agree, we do need some P5s coming to Apogee.

UTSA Fan · July 3, 2015

Reading this thread is terrifying. You'r dependent on ticket sales for revenue for the program. You can't sell tickets because you don't get good teams, you can't get good teams because you can't sell tickets. I just think about that in context of 65k seats. Wow.

UNTexas · July 3, 2015

The bottom line is the AD is awful at setting up games.

That is all.

HoustonEagle · July 3, 2015

2015 LOUISIANA MONROE WARHAWKS SCHEDULE
DATE	OPPONENT	RESULT/TIME	RECORD/TICKETS
Sat, Sept 5	@ Georgia	12:00 PM ET	1,319 available from $52
Sat, Sept 12	vs Nicholls State	7:00 PM ET	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Sept 26	@ Alabama	TBD	1,160 available from $57
Sat, Oct 3	vs Ga Southern	7:00 PM ET	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 10	@ Tulsa	TBD	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 17	vs Appalachian St	7:00 PM ET	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 24	@ Idaho	5:00 PM ET	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 31	@ LA-Lafayette	TBD	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Nov 7	@ Troy	TBD	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Nov 14	vs Arkansas State	3:00 PM ET	Buy on StubHub
Thu, Nov 19	@ Texas State	9:30 PM ET	Buy on StubHub
Sat, Nov 28	@ Hawaii	TBD	49 available from $85
Sat, Dec 5	vs New Mexico St	3:00 PM ET	Buy on StubHub

I just post this because everyone loves to point to ULM and some of the P5 home games they have secured. How does this years schedule look for them? Would you like to switch? It does not change the fact that our schedule sucks this year, I know. Still bad schedules happen and the only thing that will consistently fix the problem is money. Something we have never found in large quantities.

Edited July 3, 2015 by HoustonEagle

North Texas Shep · July 5, 2015

RV is busy with his fancy car and mustache to do any real ADing.

Greendylan · July 5, 2015

I'm fine with return games. I think that would be a good replacement for the Portland States of the world. And I agree, we do need some P5s coming to Apogee.

I understand this sentiment, but personally I rank scheduling criteria in this order of importance:

1. Winnable

2. Number of home games

3. Quality of home opponent

If you approach scheduling in this manner, it might mean that you have to play the "Portland States of the world" once or twice a year for a few seasons, but long term I think that's a formula for success and one that will eventually increase season ticket sales and, subsequently, overall revenue. Ultimately, we could avoid paycheck games altogether, but it first would take a commitment from the AD to go into the red for a couple years while stacking up wins and building a fan base. The AD also has to have confidence in students and alumni to come through with their time and money once the wins start rolling in. Basically, it would take guts and a leap of faith, but it's that kind of risk that I think is now necessary when you're not already an established, P5 program.

UNT90 · July 5, 2015

What is so frustrating is the complete give up by the AD on the upcoming football season. The willingness to accept another losing season just so you can get 2 money games and get a pat on the head by the BOR for balancing your budget would never happen at a real, self-respecting FBS program.

Its pretty clear we aren't that, and don't really have the desire to ever be that.

2015 LOUISIANA MONROE WARHAWKS SCHEDULE
DATE OPPONENT RESULT/TIME RECORD/TICKETS
Sat, Sept 5
@

Georgia
12:00 PM ET 1,319 available from $52
Sat, Sept 12
vs

Nicholls State
7:00 PM ET Buy on StubHub
Sat, Sept 26
@

Alabama
TBD 1,160 available from $57
Sat, Oct 3
vs

Ga Southern
7:00 PM ET Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 10
@

Tulsa
TBD Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 17
vs

Appalachian St
7:00 PM ET Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 24
@

Idaho
5:00 PM ET Buy on StubHub
Sat, Oct 31
@

LA-Lafayette
TBD Buy on StubHub
Sat, Nov 7
@

Troy
TBD Buy on StubHub
Sat, Nov 14
vs

Arkansas State
3:00 PM ET Buy on StubHub
Thu, Nov 19
@

Texas State
9:30 PM ET Buy on StubHub
Sat, Nov 28
@

Hawaii
TBD 49 available from $85
Sat, Dec 5
vs

New Mexico St
3:00 PM ET Buy on StubHub

I just post this because everyone loves to point to ULM and some of the P5 home games they have secured. How does this years schedule look for them? Would you like to switch? It does not change the fact that our schedule sucks this year, I know. Still bad schedules happen and the only thing that will consistently fix the problem is money. Something we have never found in large quantities.

the problem is we have these same type of schedules WITHOUT THE P5 HOME GAMES THAT ULM GETS! Is that really so hard to understand?

HoustonEagle · July 5, 2015

What is so frustrating is the complete give up by the AD on the upcoming football season. The willingness to accept another losing season just so you can get 2 money games and get a pat on the head by the BOR for balancing your budget would never happen at a real, self-respecting FBS program.

Its pretty clear we aren't that, and don't really have the desire to ever be that.
the problem is we have these same type of schedules WITHOUT THE P5 HOME GAMES THAT ULM GETS! Is that really so hard to understand?

Well for the sake of comparison lets analyze ULM’s schedule some more. ESPN shows their schedule back to 2002. If someone was to look quickly across those past years you would gather that you are indeed right. ULM has a P5 home game listed every other year. Impressive. Until you look a little deeper and notice that 5 of these P5 home games were against Arkansas at a neutral site. No big deal right? They needed a bigger venue for such a large draw. So where was the neutral site for this home game for ULM fans? That would be Little Rock. That must feel very cozy for ULM fans being square in the middle of Arkansas for their Home game. What’s more? ULM since 2002 has had 4 seasons with 6 home games. But, if we subtract out the Little Rock game they have had ZERO. With two seasons of only 4 home games. So basically ULM never plays 6 home games and the only true P5 homes games they have played to date have been Baylor and Wake Forest. Their fans have it so good.

Edited July 5, 2015 by HoustonEagle

greenit · July 5, 2015

Let's please not use ULM, the worst funded school in all of FBS as our measuring stick.

HoustonEagle · July 5, 2015

Let's please not use ULM, the worst funded school in all of FBS as our measuring stick.

I'm with you. They are just a program that gets tossed out there a lot in scheduling conversations. I think you could plug in the majority of G5 schools in ULM's place and see similar results.

UNT90 · July 5, 2015

Let's please not use ULM, the worst funded school in all of FBS as our measuring stick.

and this is the crux of it. We find ourselves comparing schedules with the worst funded team in FBS.

UNT needs to decide whether they want a lifetime AD and want to continue to be the laughing stock of FBS football in the metroplex or whether they want to be a respectable G5 program. If they choose the latter, they need to hire an AD that can get them there.

This AD has 14 years to get it done.

He hasn't. And can't.

UNTFan23 · July 6, 2015

This fan base needs to decide which is more important -- Six home games or better "quality" opponents. At this time we can't have both because are not high enough on the G5 food chain.

UNT90 · July 6, 2015

This fan base needs to decide which is more important -- Six home games or better "quality" opponents. At this time we can't have both because are not high enough on the G5 food chain.

because, lord forbid, we have any expectations of a 14 year AD to have figured out how to do both by now, right?

Or, heaven forbid, have expectations to be higher up the G5 food chain in the 14TH YEAR of the current AD's tenure, right?

GTWT · July 6, 2015

and this is the crux of it. We find ourselves comparing schedules with the worst funded team in FBS.

UNT needs to decide whether they want a lifetime AD and want to continue to be the laughing stock of FBS football in the metroplex or whether they want to be a respectable G5 program. If they choose the latter, they need to hire an AD that can get them there.

This AD has 14 years to get it done.

He hasn't. And can't.

Compare UNT in 2001 with UNT 2015. Apogee, cUSA, 4 conference FB titles, 5 bowl games, improving student athlete academics. I'm pretty happy with the progress made under RV.

Of course, my favorite movies are Disney.

Edited July 6, 2015 by GTWT

GreenMachine · July 6, 2015

I'm pretty happy with the progress made under RV.

That right there is a HUGE problem. We as alumni and a fanbase MUST have higher expectations.

MeanGreenTexan · July 6, 2015

None of this is relevant until 2019-or-so. Contracts are signed. Done deal.

We have our 8-game conference slate. After this, there are only 4 other games we could play.

We have home/home with Army through 2024.

We have home/home with SMU through 2023.

We have paycheck games through 2020. These MUST be played because we cannot afford to NOT play them. That's the sad reality.

We have purchased home games VS FCS opponents through 2019.

So, we could possibly start a home/home with someone in 2020, but we would need to be home first or we would have a 5-home game schedule in 2020. If I were RV, I would hesitate to schedule anything that far ahead because we don't know if we can afford it. No one (outside of the 1-2k die-hards and the students who aren't paying for tickets _{(i understand they're paying the student fees and that's plenty)}) is showing up. Maybe something changes in these next few years. But I think we can all expect that nothing will change.

In effect, we need to prove we can be financially viable without the paycheck games so the home/home opportunities open up. Otherwise, expect more of the same.

@Emmitt01: UTSA apparently has the boosters and the fan support to allow them to make this kind of schedule. UNT doesn't.
And why was @oldguystudent jumped for stating what I thought was widely-known? Coach McCarney wants these FCS games if we're going to play the paycheck games.

greenminer · July 6, 2015

Compare UNT in 2001 with UNT 2015. Apogee, cUSA, 4 conference FB titles, 5 bowl games, improving student athlete academics. I'm pretty happy with the progress made under RV.

Of course, my favorite movies are Disney.

I'm very happy about the facilities we have, whether it is to RV's credit or not. I also love that we are playing some Texas teams in CUSA, but I do miss LaLa and long for the tension that playing NMSU/MTSU brought.

Other than that, I'm about as apathetic as I was in 2006: Asking myself, "WTF are we doing?" and feeling like the title from 2 years prior was a fluke and not the expectation. Home scheduling is not really my talking point because I'm lucky to make 2 games in the same season anyways.

But, you know, YAY APOGEE.

UNT90 · July 6, 2015

Compare UNT in 2001 with UNT 2015. Apogee, cUSA, 4 conference FB titles, 5 bowl games, improving student athlete academics. I'm pretty happy with the progress made under RV.

Of course, my favorite movies are Disney.

well then, be happy being a middle to lower of the pack CUSA team forever.

How did your AD follow up on those "successes?" By hiring people who quickly deconstructed all of it.

Every last brick.

But again, you are fine with the crumbs that are thrown your way. Ever consider that other alumni aren't, which is the reason this program has had a basically flat growth line for the entire 14 years of this AD's tenure? While college football has exploded as a spectator sport throughout the U.S and especially in Texas?

There is a reason A LOT of our own alumni laugh at this program, much less the snickers from other FBS programs (if they even notice us at all). But, hey, everything is fine, right?

untjim1995 · July 6, 2015

well then, be happy being a middle to lower of the pack CUSA team forever.

How did your AD follow up on those "successes?" By hiring people who quickly deconstructed all of it.

Every last brick.

But again, you are fine with the crumbs that are thrown your way. Ever consider that other alumni aren't, which is the reason this program has had a basically flat growth line for the entire 14 years of this AD's tenure? While college football has exploded as a spectator sport throughout the U.S and especially in Texas?

There is a reason A LOT of our own alumni laugh at this program, much less the snickers from other FBS programs (if they even notice us at all). But, hey, everything is fine, right?

The problem is that the alumni and local citizenry don't give two $hits about the program--and never have. That's how you get an AD that gets to stay on the job forever. Winning doesn't matter here, obviously, or he would've been gone after the Todd Dodge debacle. You're only hope is for the recent alumni and current student body to grow up and continue their follwoing of the program, which they have certainly shown more attendance support than any other alumni/student group in our history. The problem with that is that it will take 20-30 years for those alumni to be at a financial place to support this thing fully. By that point, who even knows if football is allowed to be played for health reasons and at what level we will be playing at in the college football universe. But if everything was to hold constant, that the G5 remains like it currently does and the P5s reamin like they are, we could turn this thing into something really solid as a winning program because of the recent support from the younger alums and current student body. I just don't think there's a prayer that it will stay as is, even in the next 5 years.

What we did in 2011 should have really been done in 1981. Instead, we went the exact opposite direction, causing the 2011 improvements to just really be "too little, too late" for a stay at the top levels of college football. The i-aa fiasco just appears to be too much to overcome--we lost too many generations of alumni and fans to other schools by playing at a level that was really looked down upon by the media and local fans for 12 years. Even by the time we got back up to I-A in 1995, we just did the bare mnimum by adding 10k alumnium end zone seats to a terrible stadium, playing in conferences that were far-flung that no one cares about around here, and scheduled bodybag games over and over to pay for it, which allowed all of those potential fans from the 80s and 90s to feel even better about their decision to just follow Texas, OU, A&M, LSU, etc...

Edited July 6, 2015 by untjim1995

UNTFan23 · July 6, 2015

People are fooling themselves if they think bringing in a new AD is the cure all to our ills. Sure, some fans might come back because they don't like RV but what about the thousands upon thousands of other fans that don't come for any number of reasons? I don't foresee our scheduling getting much better either. If we got rid of RV today I see us having 5 home games a season with a banner P5 school in Apogee starting in either 2019 or 2020.

MeanGreenTexan · July 6, 2015

People are fooling themselves if they think bringing in a new AD is the cure all to our ills. Sure, some fans might come back because they don't like RV but what about the thousands upon thousands of other fans that don't come for any number of reasons? I don't foresee our scheduling getting much better either. If we got rid of RV today I see us having 5 home games a season with a banner P5 school in Apogee starting in either 2019 or 2020.

If we got rid of RV today, whoever is next will have 4 years to get this thing off the ground... or run it further into the ground. But the schedule ain't changing, that's for sure... unless someone buys out of any of those games, and we know that's NOT going to be UNT, because our Athletic Department is not wealthy enough to do so.

Who knows if the replacement would be good at opening up the wallets of big-money donors... if we even have any more? That along with drumming up more support (re: marketing) would be the major measuring sticks for anyone new.

Is the Devil you know better than the Devil you don't?