Remind me of why it's impossible again

MeanGreenTexan · July 8, 2015

Are you happy with where we are as an AD?

I love where we are in the non-revenue sports.
I love where we are facilities-wise.
I loved where we were football-wise 1.5 yrs ago.
I can't stand where we are basketball-wise.

Overall, yes. But the issues are gigantic.

Ben Gooding · July 8, 2015

I love where we are in the non-revenue sports.I love where we are facilities-wise.
I loved where we were football-wise 1.5 yrs ago.
I can't stand where we are basketball-wise.

Overall, yes. But the issues are gigantic.

I like where we are in the non revenue sports. I'll love it when golf isn't carrying the torch in non revenues.

I like where we are facility wise. The pit is about 10 years behind from needing a face lift. Also, the outside of the athletic complex is much nicer than the inside. They need to jazz up the inside much more. Also, our bball team practices inside of a dollar general. They need to get on top of the lovelace renovation project.

I too loved where the football program stood almost 2 years ago. But that is starting to look more and more like an outlier than a norm.

Basketball program...well...it sucks.

So, overall, no. There have obviously been much needed upgrades take place, but there are still open wounds that need serious attention.

MeanGreenTexan · July 8, 2015

I like where we are in the non revenue sports. I'll love it when golf isn't carrying the torch in non revenues.
I like where we are facility wise. The pit is about 10 years behind from needing a face lift. Also, the outside of the athletic complex is much nicer than the inside. They need to jazz up the inside much more. Also, our bball team practices inside of a dollar general. They need to get on top of the lovelace renovation project.
I too loved where the football program stood almost 2 years ago. But that is starting to look more and more like an outlier than a norm.
Basketball program...well...it sucks.
So, overall, no. There have obviously been much needed upgrades take place, but there are still open wounds that need serious attention.

The mantle has been carried for over a decade by the soccer ladies, but yes, the arrival of coach Stracke has elevated the golf program lately.

untjim1995 · July 8, 2015

I love where we are in the non-revenue sports.I love where we are facilities-wise.
I loved where we were football-wise 1.5 yrs ago.
I can't stand where we are basketball-wise.

Overall, yes. But the issues are gigantic.

I am in whole-hearted agreement with you on all of this...especially the last sentence--the issues are gigantic, and quite frankly, bigger than this AD can handle, imo.

And I think it is an ostrich-level, sticking your head in the ground view to think the buck stops at the President of the university for athletics. He reports to the Chancellor, who reports to the BOR. The BOR has extended said chancellor, even after the accounting fiasco. The AD has been extended several times in 14 years, with a football program that has gone 64-107 under his watch. When you combine the two basketball programs into the mix, his winning percentage is .456 in the big three. If someone wants to trumpet our non-revenue sports, go for it. The local media and national media don't talk about soccer, softball, volleyball, track & field, tennis, golf, or cross country at the collegiate level. They do talk about football and mens basketball, with a smidgen of coverage for womens basketball.

If we care more about the teams winning than the university's leadership does, it shouldn't surprise anyone to see the abysmal numbers we see here for season tickets or MGC members. Amazingly, though, there are people that are shocked that these numbers don't grow. And comparing them to OSU or Baylor right now is apples to oranges. Yes, they are both fruit, but that's it. They are P5 money, we are G5 broke. Compare us to San Jose State (who we most resemble), UH, UTEP, UTSA, USF, UCF, MUTS, FAU, or FIU, but please don't compare us to P5s.

I love the Mean Green, but I loathe the way we run our athletic department. The thing is that it would take a commitment of about $2 million to get out of bad contracts, hire a coach who has had success as a head coach before, and make winning an expectation. If we cannot expand our budget for athletics by $2 million dollars to buyout bad contracts, hire an AD who can actually pick coaches that know how to win, and bring in better opponents for years down the road, we really should be playing in the Southland again--because that is what needs to be done. If Louisiana Tech can do it, we can do it. If Lousiana-Lafayette or podunk Arkansas State can do it, we should be able to do it. I'm freaking tired of being UTSA's hydrant, but I also know that they take this serious for the betterment of their entire university. I don't see how anyone can say that same thing with full confidence about our leadership, which, ahem, goes above the President.

TIgreen01 · July 8, 2015

This is all so tiring. I don't know how some of you can stay so riled up for (literally) years posting the same posts over and over and over and over. 10k+ times?! Sheesh.

It's pretty simple. FBS level athletics programs live off of $$. If you want a better product, and with it, more wins, you MUST feed the beast more and more money. If you don't like the product, or a coach/AD/etc, someone has to step up and fund the buyout and hiring of a new coach (+staff). Stop complaining that other people (BOR, whoever) aren't putting up the money and START PUTTING IT UP YOURSELF. Or, realize where we are in the big picture and start comparing us to our true peers.

Trying to get the AD fired by posting about it 10,000 times may eventually get you your wish in another 5-10-15 years....but more than likely, and DEFINITELY more immediately its just going to make this site a MISERABLE place to visit and just run off the true fans we're trying to cultivate here. I really miss the days of Tina Yothers. At least when we were losing we had some comedy on here to cheer us up. Now all we have are the same 4-5 posters bitching NON-FREAKING-STOP about stuff that they can't or won't take action to fix other than to keep bitching.

</rant>

UNTFan23 · July 8, 2015

This is all so tiring. I don't know how some of you can stay so riled up for (literally) years posting the same posts over and over and over and over. 10k+ times?! Sheesh.
It's pretty simple. FBS level athletics programs live off of $$. If you want a better product, and with it, more wins, you MUST feed the beast more and more money. If you don't like the product, or a coach/AD/etc, someone has to step up and fund the buyout and hiring of a new coach (+staff). Stop complaining that other people (BOR, whoever) aren't putting up the money and START PUTTING IT UP YOURSELF. Or, realize where we are in the big picture and start comparing us to our true peers.
Trying to get the AD fired by posting about it 10,000 times may eventually get you your wish in another 5-10-15 years....but more than likely, and DEFINITELY more immediately its just going to make this site a MISERABLE place to visit and just run off the true fans we're trying to cultivate here. I really miss the days of Tina Yothers. At least when we were losing we had some comedy on here to cheer us up. Now all we have are the same 4-5 posters bitching NON-FREAKING-STOP about stuff that they can't or won't take action to fix other than to keep bitching.
</rant>

Thank you!

I must say that the constant negativity lead by a small number of our fans does more to drag down my excitement about the programs here at NT then the lack of winning. I'll still keep going to games, buying season tickets, donating to the Mean Green Club but good gosh it's hard to get excited about anything with the constant pessimism.

Harry · July 8, 2015

@UNTFan23 I hear you on the negativity and it bugs me sometimes as well. In their defense, we have had 10 years of losing football with only 1 winning season inside of it. Rewind the board to before and after the bowl win in the 2013 season and you would see a different place with a lot of optimism. In the early years, when we rejoined I-A fans were more patient and willing to give it more time. We've had some major positive milestones in that decade which include our facility growth which has been phenomenal when you look at it historically.

I do expect that we will see some more optimism and excitement as we near the start of the upcoming season.

Quoner · July 8, 2015

I really miss the days of Tina Yothers. At least when we were losing we had some comedy on here to cheer us up. Now all we have are the same 4-5 posters bitching NON-FREAKING-STOP about stuff that they can't or won't take action to fix other than to keep bitching.

Nah. That crap ruined the board and we were right to blame it for the infighting and other ills, especially with the benefit of hindsight.

Green P1 · July 8, 2015

Thank you!
I must say that the constant negativity lead by a small number of our fans does more to drag down my excitement about the programs here at NT then the lack of winning. I'll still keep going to games, buying season tickets, donating to the Mean Green Club but good gosh it's hard to get excited about anything with the constant pessimism.

Isnt it chicken/egg?

For me it was a combination of last year's football fiasco and the Tony Benford trail of tears that destroyed my willingness to keep coming back from the crotch kicks.

I've just about lost the will to post anymore, but not from the constant negativity, the fewer and fewer "negative" posters at least want/wanted something better... It's the defeated masses accepting the status quo that have served to kill my Mean Green Boner.

greenit · July 8, 2015

Isnt it chicken/egg?

For me it was a combination of last year's football fiasco and the Tony Benford trail of tears that destroyed my willingness to keep coming back from the crotch kicks.
I've just about lost the will to post anymore, but not from the constant negativity, the fewer and fewer "negative" posters at least want/wanted something better... It's the defeated masses accepting the status quo that have served to kill my Mean Green Boner.

Circle of life/UNT fandom

UNT90 · July 9, 2015

This is all so tiring. I don't know how some of you can stay so riled up for (literally) years posting the same posts over and over and over and over. 10k+ times?! Sheesh.
It's pretty simple. FBS level athletics programs live off of $$. If you want a better product, and with it, more wins, you MUST feed the beast more and more money. If you don't like the product, or a coach/AD/etc, someone has to step up and fund the buyout and hiring of a new coach (+staff). Stop complaining that other people (BOR, whoever) aren't putting up the money and START PUTTING IT UP YOURSELF. Or, realize where we are in the big picture and start comparing us to our true peers.
Trying to get the AD fired by posting about it 10,000 times may eventually get you your wish in another 5-10-15 years....but more than likely, and DEFINITELY more immediately its just going to make this site a MISERABLE place to visit and just run off the true fans we're trying to cultivate here. I really miss the days of Tina Yothers. At least when we were losing we had some comedy on here to cheer us up. Now all we have are the same 4-5 posters bitching NON-FREAKING-STOP about stuff that they can't or won't take action to fix other than to keep bitching.
</rant>

Lol.

First, it's pretty clear that NOTHING can get this AD fired, because the BOR doesn't care enough and big money supporters (all 5 of them) value friendship and special priviledge over production.

But don't worry, I'm caring less and less by the day and am very close to simply walking away.

Like so many before me.

Tell me, is it ok for the AD to blatantly lie about the current 5 home game schedule? Cause that's what he did.

Thank you!
I must say that the constant negativity lead by a small number of our fans does more to drag down my excitement about the programs here at NT then the lack of winning. I'll still keep going to games, buying season tickets, donating to the Mean Green Club but good gosh it's hard to get excited about anything with the constant pessimism.

funny, it's the constant losing that zaps the excitement out of me...

Ben Gooding · July 9, 2015

If more people bitched rather than just accepting it with pants down and hands on the ankles then there would be change. That is a monumental problem at UNT, apathy. But all of you already know that. I will walk away for good before I become an apathetic, acceptance of absolute dog shit fan. Not. Gone. Happen.

Censored by Laurie · July 9, 2015

If more people bitched rather than just accepting it with pants down and hands on the ankles then there would be change. That is a monumental problem at UNT, apathy. But all of you already know that. I will walk away for good before I become an apathetic, acceptance of absolute dog shit fan. Not. Gone. Happen.

Ben Gooding...changing North Texas Culture...one machismo, profanity-laden internet rant at a time.

Ben Gooding · July 9, 2015

Ben Gooding...changing North Texas Culture...one machismo, profanity-laden internet rant at a time.

Sensitive much?

Censored by Laurie · July 9, 2015

Sensitive much?

fuck nah, brah

Ben Gooding · July 9, 2015

Well good

TIgreen01 · July 9, 2015

If more people bitched rather than just accepting it with pants down and hands on the ankles then there would be change. That is a monumental problem at UNT, apathy. But all of you already know that. I will walk away for good before I become an apathetic, acceptance of absolute dog shit fan. Not. Gone. Happen.

Wrong. The kind of change that you want requires money. All the bitching in the world isn't going to buy out anyone's contract. The so called "apathy" problem is really a money problem. Most people don't have the kind of money to enact that kind of change. So, when the same group of posters constantly complaining that the BOR won't fund the program at higher levels or our big money donors are just satisfied with being "friends" and getting access, what they are really doing is complaining that what other people are doing with THEIR money isn't benefiting them. "It's not fair! Whaaa!" If you really want to see change, find a way to get some money and/or power/influence and take action. Then post about the positive impact you're making.

Edited July 9, 2015 by TIgreen01

Side Show Joe · July 9, 2015

We all know there are certain financial constraints and alumni support issues that keep North Texas from being able accomplish some things. But, in many areas our athletic department has gone far beyond what some of us could have dreamed of just 10 seasons ago. Apogee Stadium is amazing. Being in C-USA West with Rice, UTEP, LA Tech, Southern Miss, and even UTSA is a huge improvement over the old Sun Belt. And, any reasonable person will concede Mac is a far better coach then Dodge.

Of course there are things we still need to improve on. OOC scheduling is not what many would expect it to be at this point. Attendance is not what many had hoped it would be. And worst of all, we are coming off a terrible 4-8 season after winning the HOD. Many on this board look at the schedule, look at the seniors we lost, and look at the QB situation and they have concerns about the upcoming season. No one is going to change any opinions on these issues. This season is going to be what it is going to be.

Arguing with each other won't change anything. We should focus on what we have in common, our support of the Mean Green, even if we have different ideas about how we think things should be done. Fall camp is about to start, and maybe it is time to refocus on the positives and get ready to support our team.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Side Show Joe

Harry · July 9, 2015

@Side Show Joe good post. There comes a time starting when camp opens up in the fall that you put the past issues behind and clean the slate. For us this cannot come soon enough!

I have followed the program for awhile now and I can promise you UNT and many other programs and their fans will clean the slate soon. It's the natural progression of things.

You are correct, if you look at the program historically we have had a great run in facilities and conference affiliation and student support.

GMG

Cerebus · July 9, 2015

Please put on your AD cap and share with the group what you want done differently. You do an excellent job of telling all that's wrong, I'm curious to hear what success looks like to you. I'm not talking about 6 home games with OU coming to Apogee; I'm talking about how you'd go about getting us there.

*digs around in his Things We Have gone Over 500 Times Already bag*

*finds the post, blows dust off of it, and reposts*

I am really tired of this argument. Let me explain once again. We are customers, the coaches are contractors we have hired. Now I hire contractors because they have skills I don't have. I don't know how to do major plumbing, but if the plumber I hire does some work that causes the toilet to flush directly out of the shower head, despite the fact I am not a plumber I have every right to complain about the work and fire the contractor.
I don't know how to coach college football, I am helping to pay paying for a contractor to come in to do that. I am very unhappy with the work the contractor has delivered so far.
The sub contractor (MAC) had better figure out how to fix his crew (other coaches/recruiters) or I am going to lose faith in that subcontractor, and start to wonder why the general contractor (RV) doesn't get more blame for hiring so many subpar sub contractors (Dodge, Benford, etc).

forevereagle · July 9, 2015

*digs around in his Things We Have gone Over 500 Times Already bag*

Isn't that this entire thread? Let's go ahead and just apply this to the original post as well as most of the replies.

UNT90 · July 9, 2015

Wrong. The kind of change that you want requires money. All the bitching in the world isn't going to buy out anyone's contract. The so called "apathy" problem is really a money problem. Most people don't have the kind of money to enact that kind of change. So, when the same group of posters constantly complaining that the BOR won't fund the program at higher levels or our big money donors are just satisfied with being "friends" and getting access, what they are really doing is complaining that what other people are doing with THEIR money isn't benefiting them. "It's not fair! Whaaa!" If you really want to see change, find a way to get some money and/or power/influence and take action. Then post about the positive impact you're making.

Under this brilliant college football theory, there would only be about 10k big donors present at every UT home game.

And only 5 at every UNT home game...

because what you are saying is that if you don't have money to affect change, you have no right to be a fan.

Edited July 9, 2015 by UNT90

TIgreen01 · July 9, 2015

@UNT90 That's quite the leap you just made. Here's the definition of a fan. Maybe you want to be something different?

³fan

noun

Definition of FAN

1

: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator

2

: an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans>

GrandGreen · July 9, 2015

Well, according to some; money and fan apathy are the problems not leadership. Forget that budget-wise NT stacks up fairly well with CUSU members and other g5 peers; it is still the AD's responsibility to both generate donations and excite the fans. It is particularly peculiar to not equate the lack of fan support to an AD that has been in charge for over a decade.

Many, but a lot less every year, praise RV for the facilities and overall upgrade of athletics from were NT was when he was employed. Those improvements are real, but I fail to understand why anyone thinks that those achievements and perhaps a lot more couldn't have been accomplished under different leadership.

Edited July 9, 2015 by GrandGreen

UNT90 · July 10, 2015

@UNT90 That's quite the leap you just made. Here's the definition of a fan. Maybe you want to be something different?
³fan
noun
Definition of FAN
1
: an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator
2
: an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans>