UNT vs. SMU 2015 juco comparison

Harry · June 22, 2015

It is interesting to note that I count 2 junior college transfers on SMU's roster while I count 13 on UNT's roster.

SMU did not historically take juco's due to academics and then June Jones got them to soften the requirements to allow some. I don't see Morris being a big juco guy either since he really plays up to his high school coaching connections (even though he has been a college assistant coach for some time and probably has more money than most of them put together).. if anything it appears SMU is distancing from the juco transfer. They had a corner out of Navarro who had committed early but he ended up signing with Tulsa.

I think it is worth noting this discrepancy as we inch closer to the game. SMU had a nice 1st class under Morris but it is highly unlikely this all high school group will make an immediate impact on the field. It's going to take a few games.

Morris is going to build SMU the right way, and he will not let go of the high school connections he has in Texas until he is forced to... he has a sweet contract and can build.

Mac on the other hand needs to win now. He has one winning season in four years. Mac would prefer to do exactly what Morris is doing now but he doesn't have that luxury.

You would think this would bode well for UNT in this 2015 game. It will be interesting to see the early line.

For the record, I have no issue with what Mac is doing and I think it makes sense given the circumstances. Let's hope that it works.

drex · June 22, 2015

A very critical time for Mac and Benford, not denying it.

untjim1995 · June 22, 2015

It is interesting to note that I count 2 junior college transfers on SMU's roster while I count 13 on UNT's roster.
SMU did not historically take juco's due to academics and then June Jones got them to soften the requirements to allow some. I don't see Morris being a big juco guy either since he really plays up to his high school coaching connections (even though he has been a college assistant coach for some time and probably has more money than most of them put together).. if anything it appears SMU is distancing from the juco transfer. They had a corner out of Navarro who had committed early but he ended up signing with Tulsa.
I think it is worth noting this discrepancy as we inch closer to the game. SMU had a nice 1st class under Morris but it is highly unlikely this all high school group will make an immediate impact on the field. It's going to take a few games.
Morris is going to build SMU the right way, and he will not let go of the high school connections he has in Texas until he is forced to... he has a sweet contract and can build.
Mac on the other hand needs to win now. He has one winning season in four years. Mac would prefer to do exactly what Morris is doing now but he doesn't have that luxury.
You would think this would bode well for UNT in this 2015 game. It will be interesting to see the early line.
For the record, I have no issue with what Mac is doing and I think it makes sense given the circumstances. Let's hope that it works.

I think its brilliant that Mac or Dodge before him have made several solid in-roads with JUCOs. Getting the JUCO recruits is far easier than it is to get Texas HS recruits to come here, for many of the reasons that have been pointed out around here for decades. JUCO kids often want to come and play immediately and they want to finish their degrees on scholarship. They aren't stuck behind decades-old beliefs and thoughts about our program. This may be the only area that we can reasonably expect to emulate Snyder and Kansas State in regards to building up a solid winner. Hell, the only two QBs we have gotten that could compete for a starting job against the current guys on the squad were from JUCOs, Greer and Damarcus Smith. HS QBs won't even give us a sniff, but JUCO QBs are still interested...

Mean Green 93-98 · June 22, 2015

Fair point, but do we hit on a higher average with HS recruits or Juco recruits? I.e., which group has a higher percentage of players to make an impact during their time here? I don't claim to know the answer, but I would think that most of our high-impact players (e.g., Zach Orr, Brelan Chancellor, Lance Dunbar) have come out of the high school ranks. James Jones may have been the best player we landed out of a Juco in recent years, and I wouldn't put him on the same level as those other three.

oldguystudent · June 22, 2015

Somebody remind me of the rules. Doesn't too much reliance on Jucos mess up your long-term scholarship count? If I'm correct on this, when I see such a heavy reliance on Jucos here at UNT (again), I smell desperation.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 22, 2015

Somebody remind me of the rules. Doesn't too much reliance on Jucos mess up your long-term scholarship count? If I'm correct on this, when I see such a heavy reliance on Jucos here at UNT (again), I smell desperation.

I don't know that it's a matter of the rules per se...but you are only allowed to sign 25 players per class. If a high percentage of those are juco recruits, you're only getting 2 years per signee, whereas with HS recruits you're getting 4 years per signee. Ultimately, the math works out better to have more players on scholarship (read "depth") if you sign more HS recruits.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Mean Green 93-98

untjim1995 · June 22, 2015

Bill Snyder has made a living out of getting JUCO kids to come his way, with his program being a great fit for them even with only two years of eligibility. No reason that UNT and McCarney can't do the same.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 22, 2015

Bill Snyder has made a living out of getting JUCO kids to come his way

That comment is repeated ad nauseum, but I believe it's an overstatement. Look at his last class--only 3 of his commits were Juco recruits. He builds his teams primarily with high school recruits. HOWEVER...his Juco recruits have been major hits that make a tremendous impact--see Jake Waters.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Mean Green 93-98

BillySee58 · June 23, 2015

I still think our biggest disadvantage against SMU will be that they'll have a game of experience under their belt. That really helps them out with being able to play fast, having had live-game action and not just scrimmages against each other.

As far as the JUCOs go, they are expected to contribute more than true freshman, obviously, but one thing I think people overrate is how ready they are. It's still their first year of D1 ball, or at least first year on our team. I've been talking about my "all-CUSA formula" for a while, but one thing all of our 1st and 2nd team guys have been is at least a second-year starter. Even Marcus Trice definitely needed a year of starting on our team before becoming an all-conference guy. And he had a decent amount of D1 experience. Expecting these guys, and Sam Rice, to come in and start and/or contribute is one thing. Expecting these to be our all-conference guys is another.

Back to the original topic, that SMU game is going to be their first D1 action, freshman or junior.

Harry · June 23, 2015

I still think our biggest disadvantage against SMU will be that they'll have a game of experience under their belt. That really helps them out with being able to play fast, having had live-game action and not just scrimmages against each other.
As far as the JUCOs go, they are expected to contribute more than true freshman, obviously, but one thing I think people overrate is how ready they are. It's still their first year of D1 ball, or at least first year on our team. I've been talking about my "all-CUSA formula" for a while, but one thing all of our 1st and 2nd team guys have been is at least a second-year starter. Even Marcus Trice definitely needed a year of starting on our team before becoming an all-conference guy. And he had a decent amount of D1 experience. Expecting these guys, and Sam Rice, to come in and start and/or contribute is one thing. Expecting these to be our all-conference guys is another.
Back to the original topic, that SMU game is going to be their first D1 action, freshman or junior.

I think that's a valid point Billy. I would qualify that by what happens in that Baylor game. If Baylor trounces the ponies as they have in the past it could have a negative effect on their psyche.

UNT will probably have some stage fright and make some early miscues with this being their first game. In fact. I think McNulty starting this game may not be a bad thing because he is not as apt to make a mistake. In typical Mac fashion I expect us to try and pound it out on them.

People forget we did not win the SMU game last year with our offense...it was defense and special teams that broke that game open for us.

BillySee58 · June 23, 2015

I think that's a valid point Billy. I would qualify that by what happens in that Baylor game. If Baylor trounces the ponies as they have in the past it could have a negative effect on their psyche.
UNT will probably have some stage fright and make some early miscues with this being their first game. In fact. I think McNulty starting this game may not be a bad thing because he is not as apt to make a mistake. In typical Mac fashion I expect us to try and pound it out on them.
People forget we did not win the SMU game last year with our offense...it was defense and special teams that broke that game open for us.

Whether or not SMU is affected negatively psychologically by what happens against Baylor is up to their players and that coaching staff. But if I have a choice I'm taking having a game under my belt as opposed to going into the game without having played against a team that has played a game, regardless of how that game actually plays out.

It has everything to do with getting up to game speed. That makes it a very tough task for us.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 23, 2015

Whether or not SMU is affected negatively psychologically by what happens against Baylor is up to their players and that coaching staff. But if I have a choice I'm taking having a game under my belt as opposed to going into the game without having played against a team that has played a game, regardless of how that game actually plays out.
It has everything to do with getting up to game speed. That makes it a very tough task for us.

Not denying any of that, but something that hasn't been brought up yet is that this will give us current game film of SMU, while they will have none of us. It's not much, especially considering their playbook against Baylor will look a little different than their playbook against us, but it's a little something in our favor.

BillySee58 · June 23, 2015

Not denying any of that, but something that hasn't been brought up yet is that this will give us current game film of SMU, while they will have none of us. It's not much, especially considering their playbook against Baylor will look a little different than their playbook against us, but it's a little something in our favor.

Just my opinion, but I don't think it compares at all to the advantage that being more up to game speed gives. I'd gladly give a team a game's worth of film in exchange for being able to play faster (than we would without a game played).

I normally don't like the whole "you had to have played to understand" argument because I think there are plenty of smart minds who didn't play who can evaluate the sport better than many people blessed with the body to play. But playing definitely taught me how the process of getting to playing fast goes, and the limits of how far practice alone can take you in that regard. Until the ball is snapped and we start playing well against them, that will be my biggest concern with that game.

If Mcnulty is our starter then there isn't much less our game against UTSA last year will tell them about us than their game against Baylor will tell us about them. If Smith gets the nod, on the other hand..

Edited June 23, 2015 by BillySee58

GOMG2013 · June 23, 2015

Just my opinion, but I don't think it compares at all to the advantage that being more up to game speed gives. I'd gladly give a team a game's worth of film in exchange for being able to play faster (than we would without a game played).
I normally don't like the whole "you had to have played to understand" argument because I think there are plenty of smart minds who didn't play who can evaluate the sport better than many people blessed with the body to play. But playing definitely taught me how the process of getting to playing fast goes, and the limits of how far practice alone can take you in that regard. Until the ball is snapped and we start playing well against them, that will be my biggest concern with that game.
If Mcnulty is our starter then there isn't much less our game against UTSA last year will tell them about us than their game against Baylor will tell us about them. If Smith gets the nod, on the other hand..

I think having a live game can be an advantage, but it depends on how that game goes. If you are competitive and can take away positives from it, then it can be a plus. If you are destroyed, it can definently have a negative effect.

SMU is preparing for Baylor. They are telling themselves the year is going to be different than last year. Some will trick themselves into thinking they can hang with Baylor, and the new coach will make a difference. If they play decent, they come into the game with us with confidence knowing we are not even close to being as good as Baylor. If they get smashed, especially to the point where Baylor's 2nd unit comes in and continues the beating, then there is nothing positive. Yes, they played full game speed, but it means nothing if you show you were not ready after months of prep. Injuries can also be a factor.

the advantage we will have is we have months to prepare for SMU, with one game to scout. Our offense has some changes, and if smith is the QB, they really won't have much to go on.

Aldo · June 23, 2015

We really won't know who's starting for SMU at QB until we find out what that Baylor D-line does to them.

BillySee58 · June 24, 2015

I think having a live game can be an advantage, but it depends on how that game goes. If you are competitive and can take away positives from it, then it can be a plus. If you are destroyed, it can definently have a negative effect.

SMU is preparing for Baylor. They are telling themselves the year is going to be different than last year. Some will trick themselves into thinking they can hang with Baylor, and the new coach will make a difference. If they play decent, they come into the game with us with confidence knowing we are not even close to being as good as Baylor. If they get smashed, especially to the point where Baylor's 2nd unit comes in and continues the beating, then there is nothing positive. Yes, they played full game speed, but it means nothing if you show you were not ready after months of prep. Injuries can also be a factor.

the advantage we will have is we have months to prepare for SMU, with one game to scout. Our offense has some changes, and if smith is the QB, they really won't have much to go on.

How well you play and what you take away from the first game really doesn't have much to do with the fact that you're just playing faster by the second game than you are the first. From a playing standpoint, not a scheming standpoint.

greenit · June 24, 2015

All coaches say that a team improves the most between its first and second game.

Unless we are able to schedule a super secret game before smoo, they will have that factor working in their favor.

malonish · June 24, 2015

The SMOO Baylurr game will be a train wreck so expect us to try out a lot of different people to find a good-ish fit. The one game of experience is going to work wonders for the True Frosh who will win playing time over the meh returning players.

PonySup · June 29, 2015

Notice we will be hosting a top-10 team at home to open the season. When's the last time a top ten team played in dumpy Denton?

Got5onIt · June 29, 2015

Notice we will be hosting a top-10 team at home to open the season. When's the last time a top ten team played in dumpy Denton?

It sure as hell wasn't and won't be SMU during this millennium.

greenit · June 29, 2015

Our OOC home scheduling has been bad. Last year the best team that came to Apogee was Nicholls State.

untjim1995 · June 29, 2015

Notice we will be hosting a top-10 team at home to open the season. When's the last time a top ten team played in dumpy Denton?

2011--Houston was ranked as high as 7th that year.

Congrats on getting fellow SWC private school Baylor to come to Dallas and giving their fanbase an easy game to travel to and watch an easy win. Kinda like yall do for TCU every year, as well as when A&M or Tech have come to town.

I do think its really awesome that we replaced A&M and Tech on your schedule for OOC games against Texas public schools going forward. Its really a great opportunity for us to get some easy wins again, just like last year.