DCTF argues Houston, SMU should be top G5 progra

Harry · June 13, 2015

One of the big offseason stories in Texas college football has been the arrival of new head coaches at SMU (Chad Morris) and Houston (Tom Herman).

Each comes with an impressive pedigree and landed at schools with some inherent advantages due to location and something to sell as a member of the American Athletic Conference.

Whether or not it’s true, each will tell recruits the American is the best conference in America outside of the Power Five.

I bring it up because Dave Campbell’s Texas Football made the argument that the pair will end up ruling Texas college football outside the power leagues. …

read more: http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/06/dctf-argues-houston-smu-should-be-top-g5-programs-in-state.html/

HoustonEagle · June 13, 2015

Unless we figure out how to raise funds they are right. The money has yet to come in a big way. That is our biggest problem.

Ben Gooding · June 13, 2015

Maybe, Maybe not. The beauty of this article is that they both lost to in state CUSA teams last year. This is just money being shuffled to whoever it needed to be for an article of this nature to be published for the public to see.

On the field performance is what talks and CUSA proved it was a superior football conference. Bowl record was better as was W/L record in OOC play. The media sees the AAC as a better athletic conference bc of the money to be made in basketball so they will spew whatever garbage they are told to spew.

NTXCoog · June 13, 2015

Maybe, Maybe not. The beauty of this article is that they both lost to in state CUSA teams last year. This is just money being shuffled to whoever it needed to be for an article of this nature to be published for the public to see.
On the field performance is what talks and CUSA proved it was a superior football conference. Bowl record was better as was W/L record in OOC play. The media sees the AAC as a better athletic conference bc of the money to be made in basketball so they will spew whatever garbage they are told to spew.

Don't bet everything on 1 game or even 1 season. Yes, both lost to in state CUSA teams last year. That helped get UH's coach fired. But don't forget, the year before UH beat 2 in state CUSA teams including the CUSA champ. And while UTSA may have beat UH last year, UH had as good or better overall record than all of the Texas CUSA teams and beat a P5 team in its bowl.

UH in the last 10 years vs CUSA TX teams:

Rice - 7-2

UTSA - 1-1

UNT - 2-0

UTEP - 6-1

Combined - 16-4

I don't think there's much argument that UH has been and will continue to be the top G5 school in Texas

Coach Bill Lewis · June 13, 2015

Don't bet everything on 1 game or even 1 season. Yes, both lost to in state CUSA teams last year. That helped get UH's coach fired. But don't forget, the year before UH beat 2 in state CUSA teams including the CUSA champ. And while UTSA may have beat UH last year, UH had as good or better overall record than all of the Texas CUSA teams and beat a P5 team in its bowl.
UH in the last 10 years vs CUSA TX teams:
Rice - 7-2
UTSA - 1-1
UNT - 2-0
UTEP - 6-1
Combined - 16-4

I don't think there's much argument that UH has been and will continue to be the top G5 school in Texas

mac hasnt faired too well against houston

oldguystudent · June 13, 2015

mac hasnt faired too well against ~~houston~~ anybody in particular in FBS.

Side Show Joe · June 13, 2015

I don't think Houston or SMU will see any advantage to playing football in the AAC. Their new division is not really Texas friendly. Aside from Houston and SMU the rest of the new AAC Western division is made up of out of state programs (Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, and Navy- they have no business in the AAC West). With the exception of Navy, I don't see those teams doing much to excite fans or help improve attendance numbers. Personally, with 4 major Texas markets in C-USA West, I like our division better, and believe our programs will develop stronger and more exciting divisional rivalries, with overall better attendance then SMU's and Houston's divisional home games.

I just don't see Houston and SMU improving their attendance numbers when Tulsa or Tulane visit Houston or SMU. Last season Houston drew 23,500 for their game against Tulsa. Respectable but not outstanding. I also think you can expect those types of numbers in a normal year. SMU reported 19,400 last season for their game against Memphis, and we all know that's probably twice the number that actually went to the game.

We just need to focus on recruiting, developing players, and winning games. If we do that, everything else will take care of itself.

UNTexas · June 13, 2015

So, they are talking up hopes of being big fish in a little pond. Gotcha. It's the off season for sure.

UTSA Fan · June 13, 2015

I was disappointed UH didn't continue to schedule UTSA after last season. It made it really nice to have Houston, Rice, UNT with San Marcos under contract. In state games that are good for recruiting and inexpensive travel. For some reason, UH and SMU just wouln't schedule. We have Baylor and A&M scheduled, but those guys want nothing to do with it. Feel happy you have SMU, I.e. AAC opponent, who is willing to schedule with you.

Ben Gooding · June 13, 2015

I was disappointed UH didn't continue to schedule UTSA after last season. It made it really nice to have Houston, Rice, UNT with San Marcos under contract. In state games that are good for recruiting and inexpensive travel. For some reason, UH and SMU just wouln't schedule. We have Baylor and A&M scheduled, but those guys want nothing to do with it. Feel happy you have SMU, I.e. AAC opponent, who is willing to schedule with you.

They were willing to schedule, let's see if they are willing to continue the series after a couple more beatings. Yeah, they are out recruiting us, but haven't they always? They are in store for another pounding, possibly 2 more before the game becomes fiercely competitive. 3 straight losses to us and smu might pull out though.

NTXCoog · June 13, 2015

I don't think Houston or SMU will see any advantage to playing football in the AAC. Their new division is not really Texas friendly. Aside from Houston and SMU the rest of the new AAC Western division is made up of out of state programs (Memphis, Tulsa, Tulane, and Navy- they have no business in the AAC West). With the exception of Navy, I don't see those teams doing much to excite fans or help improve attendance numbers. Personally, with 4 major Texas markets in C-USA West, I like our division better, and believe our programs will develop stronger and more exciting divisional rivalries, with overall better attendance then SMU's and Houston's divisional home games.
I just don't see Houston and SMU improving their attendance numbers when Tulsa or Tulane visit Houston or SMU. Last season Houston drew 23,500 for their game against Tulsa. Respectable but not outstanding. I also think you can expect those types of numbers in a normal year.

Again, I think you're reading too much into 1 game with Tulsa. That game was after an embarrassing loss to Tulane the week before, after an embarrassing loss in the season/stadium opener earlier in the season. Fans were disappointed in the season and wanted the coach fired, so they stayed home for Tulane. I notice that you didn't state that the week before against Tulane, UH had 32k there. Hell we had 30k vs Grambling after that UTSA loss. Maybe we should join the SWAC.

But the biggest problem with your argument might be the biggest problem with the UNT fanbase. If you're relying on opposing fans to fill your stadium or for other teams to excite your own fanbase to show up, you'll always have problems unless you somehow manage to join a P5 conference. Attendance has to come from being excited about your own team first. I'm not saying that "big name" opponents won't sell more tickets or cause more excitement, but ticket sells need to come from within first.

And BTW: if you think UNT would be a bigger draw, just look at UH's 2012 schedule. UNT was the 2nd lowest attended home game of the year. Only UAB was lower with about 250 less in attendance. Tulane and Tulsa both had higher attendance, and those were the last 2 home games of a 5-7 season when the attendance should be lowest. In the future, UH fans would consider UTSA to be similar. UTEP might be an exception because they do bring quite a few fans around the state. Rice is definitely an exception for UH just because the younger alums and students love when we beat them. But again, It's not the team you play. It's the home team you support.

NTXCoog · June 13, 2015

I was disappointed UH didn't continue to schedule UTSA after last season. It made it really nice to have Houston, Rice, UNT with San Marcos under contract. In state games that are good for recruiting and inexpensive travel. For some reason, UH and SMU just wouln't schedule. We have Baylor and A&M scheduled, but those guys want nothing to do with it. Feel happy you have SMU, I.e. AAC opponent, who is willing to schedule with you.

I'm sure it all comes down to money. I'm guessing a lot of teams got nice deals to play home and homes your first couple of years. In 2015 and 2016 UH has Texas State instead of UTSA. I'm guessing we got a better financial deal on our home game with them than we could get out of UTSA.

So let's talk scheduling strategy: 1) We're going to have the paycheck FCS games so we can have 7 home/Houston games (OU is at NRG Stadium). 2) We'll probably have a Texas G5 team with a decent financial deal. The next 2 years, that's TX State. In the future, Rice is back on the schedule to fill that role. 3) We're toughening our schedule up with P5 schools. 2015 - Louisville and Vanderbilt, 2016 - OU and Louisville, 2017 - Texas Tech and Arizona.

I just don't think there was room on the schedule with that strategy.

NTXCoog · June 13, 2015

And I do want it noted that I'd love for UH to play UNT because UNT is the 2nd team I follow. I just don't think the instate argument is a strong point to make.

Side Show Joe · June 13, 2015

Again, I think you're reading too much into 1 game with Tulsa. That game was after an embarrassing loss to Tulane the week before, after an embarrassing loss in the season/stadium opener earlier in the season. Fans were disappointed in the season and wanted the coach fired, so they stayed home for Tulane. I notice that you didn't state that the week before against Tulane, UH had 32k there. Hell we had 30k vs Grambling after that UTSA loss. Maybe we should join the SWAC.
But the biggest problem with your argument might be the biggest problem with the UNT fanbase. If you're relying on opposing fans to fill your stadium or for other teams to excite your own fanbase to show up, you'll always have problems unless you somehow manage to join a P5 conference. Attendance has to come from being excited about your own team first. I'm not saying that "big name" opponents won't sell more tickets or cause more excitement, but ticket sells need to come from within first.
And BTW: if you think UNT would be a bigger draw, just look at UH's 2012 schedule. UNT was the 2nd lowest attended home game of the year. Only UAB was lower with about 250 less in attendance. Tulane and Tulsa both had higher attendance, and those were the last 2 home games of a 5-7 season when the attendance should be lowest. In the future, UH fans would consider UTSA to be similar. UTEP might be an exception because they do bring quite a few fans around the state. Rice is definitely an exception for UH just because the younger alums and students love when we beat them. But again, It's not the team you play. It's the home team you support.

In one sentence you state attendance must come from your fan base, and then in another sentence you claim you couldn't get your fans to the Tulsa game. Just saying...

I didn't mention last season's Tulane game, but I didn't bring up the 15,000 (reported) that watched Houston play at SMU either.

I think you misunderstand what I'm arguing. I believe playing games against Rice, UTEP, and UTSA will interest the UNT fan base more, and result in more of our fans attending home games in larger numbers. I wasn't counting on visiting fans to drive attendance, though I do think those programs travel well. The AAC West is saddled with 3 small private schools. I just don't see that as an advantage. Again, as a fan, I prefer the line-up of C-USA West better. It is just my opinion.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Side Show Joe

Ben Gooding · June 14, 2015

And I do want it noted that I'd love for UH to play UNT because UNT is the 2nd team I follow. I just don't think the instate argument is a strong point to make.

In G5, the in state argument is 100% valid. In state divisional opponents are going to draw more fans. As a matter of fact... in AAC's case, in state conference games are irrelevant in regards to attendance...

Prime example... North Texas (bad year in 2014) at UTSA (bad year in 2014) 24k attendance

UH (bad year in 14') at SMU (bad year in 14') 15k attendance

Both games were regular season finales...so....all excitement had been sucked out of all 4 programs...

UH is going to struggle like most metroplex universities... there are professional teams hogging up everything...sponsors, fans, TV placement, advertising space, etc, etc...

There is a reason most blue blood powerhouses are tucked away in little corners of their respective states. They want to create a game day atmosphere, advertising space, faithful fans, demands in TV placement etc. etc. that they don't have to share anything with no one... Of course there are a few exceptions few and far between with that such as USC, Miami, etc. But the norm is to be in a little college town of maybe 40k in the summer and 100k come school time. Why do you think there is not a single professional sport in the city of Austin?? There is over 2 million people in the Austin "area." UT will do anything it takes to ensure a professional team of any sport stays within arms reach, anything.

NTXCoog · June 14, 2015

My point about the Tulsa game is it wouldn't have mattered who the opponent was (possible exception big P5). Your point was that Tulsa didn't bring out the UH fan. Do you think it would have been more if it was UNT? Texas State? UTEP? No. The opponent didn't matter. We were going to have poor attendance regardless because of the bad season. If UH had won against Tulane and UTSA and been 9-3 instead of 7-5, it would have been much higher attendance whether it was Tulsa or UNT, but probably higher for Tulsa because we have a long history with them. Did you know that after this season, Tulsa will tie Rice for team that UH has played the most?

Go ahead and mention SMU's poor attendance. It sucks. And UH fans weren't coming to Dallas at the end of a poor season if they weren't going to the last home game. But the UH/SMU attendance hurts your argument. It just goes to show because an opponent is in state, it does not necessarily improve attendance.

And I understand your point that you think in state teams will improve interest. I just completely disagree. UH has more history with SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa than with UNT, UTSA, and UTEP. We've played the former 30, 19, and 39 times. We've played the latter we've played 14, 2, and 10 times. Maybe for UNT CUSA West is a better choice because you have no history with either. But UH has a history with AAC West that it doesn't have with CUSA West.

NTXCoog · June 14, 2015

In G5, the in state argument is 100% valid. In state divisional opponents are going to draw more fans. As a matter of fact... in AAC's case, in state conference games are irrelevant in regards to attendance...
Prime example... North Texas (bad year in 2014) at UTSA (bad year in 2014) 24k attendance
UH (bad year in 14') at SMU (bad year in 14') 15k attendance
Both games were regular season finales...so....all excitement had been sucked out of all 4 programs...
UH is going to struggle like most metroplex universities... there are professional teams hogging up everything...sponsors, fans, TV placement, advertising space, etc, etc...
There is a reason most blue blood powerhouses are tucked away in little corners of their respective states. They want to create a game day atmosphere, advertising space, faithful fans, demands in TV placement etc. etc. that they don't have to share anything with no one... Of course there are a few exceptions few and far between with that such as USC, Miami, etc. But the norm is to be in a little college town of maybe 40k in the summer and 100k come school time. Why do you think there is not a single professional sport in the city of Austin?? There is over 2 million people in the Austin "area." UT will do anything it takes to ensure a professional team of any sport stays within arms reach, anything.

Again look at UH in 2012. UNT not better than Tulsa or Tulane. It may make a difference for UNT, but not for UH.

Not sure I get your point about Austin... Why doesn't have any pro teams? Because it has the 49th TV market, behind markets like Birmingham, Raleigh, Grand Rapids, Albuquerque, etc.

NTXCoog · June 14, 2015

BTW: Everyone throwing around the SMU 15k number. It definitely sucks. But what do you think UNT's attendance would be playing a day game on Black Friday when you're 0-10 against UTSA? Do you think you would hit 15k? Considering you didn't hit 15k on one Saturday last season, it's quite possible.

Side Show Joe · June 14, 2015

My point about the Tulsa game is it wouldn't have mattered who the opponent was (possible exception big P5). Your point was that Tulsa didn't bring out the UH fan. Do you think it would have been more if it was UNT? Texas State? UTEP? No. The opponent didn't matter. We were going to have poor attendance regardless because of the bad season. If UH had won against Tulane and UTSA and been 9-3 instead of 7-5, it would have been much higher attendance whether it was Tulsa or UNT, but probably higher for Tulsa because we have a long history with them. Did you know that after this season, Tulsa will tie Rice for team that UH has played the most?
Go ahead and mention SMU's poor attendance. It sucks. And UH fans weren't coming to Dallas at the end of a poor season if they weren't going to the last home game. But the UH/SMU attendance hurts your argument. It just goes to show because an opponent is in state, it does not necessarily improve attendance.
And I understand your point that you think in state teams will improve interest. I just completely disagree. UH has more history with SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa than with UNT, UTSA, and UTEP. We've played the former 30, 19, and 39 times. We've played the latter we've played 14, 2, and 10 times. Maybe for UNT CUSA West is a better choice because you have no history with either. But UH has a history with AAC West that it doesn't have with CUSA West.

I can't speak to U of H's history with the other teams in the AAC West, but...

Houston only has one other Texas program in the AAC West, and 3 of the 5 other members of the division are small private universities. Those sounds more like disadvantages to me. The AAC is not the Big East and on the field offers no advantage over C-USA. I just don't see where Houston or SMU have advantages in the age of the P5s and G5s.

Ben Gooding · June 14, 2015

No, we didn't. But that is apples and oranges. You must be the kind of person that points to the exception to everything. That "one" game was against traditionally the worst team (FIU) in athletics in our conference and is located further from Denton than anyone else in our conference. It was also raining and cold all game. But, good on you to point out that our attendance vs a team 1400 miles away was about 3-400 people less than an instate AAC game, Houston vs SMU.

UNTexas · June 14, 2015

I was disappointed UH didn't continue to schedule UTSA after last season. It made it really nice to have Houston, Rice, UNT with San Marcos under contract. In state games that are good for recruiting and inexpensive travel. For some reason, UH and SMU just wouln't schedule. We have Baylor and A&M scheduled, but those guys want nothing to do with it. Feel happy you have SMU, I.e. AAC opponent, who is willing to schedule with you.

They don't want you beating up on them again. I watched that game. They were in shock. I loved it.

Edited June 14, 2015 by UNTexas

Cougar King · June 14, 2015

Stop wasting your time NTXCoog. These people don't want to hear you speak the truth. Why do you think the admins have me on double secret probation?

Edited June 14, 2015 by Cougar King

wardly · June 14, 2015

Houston should be best of the rest,SMU could be. Our focus should be on our program and ways to increase attendance. In my business experience, increased sales solved most problems. In football, increased wins should increase attendance. However, I see little in any difference between Mac's offense and Dickey's, hence our inability to recruit top quarterbacks and receivers. High schools today play a different game that they did 15 years ago, but we are stuck in the past. Time to replace Mac.

oldguystudent · June 14, 2015

However, I see little in any difference between Mac's offense and Dickey's, hence our inability to recruit top quarterbacks and receivers. High schools today play a different game that they did 15 years ago, but we are stuck in the past. Time to replace Mac.

Replace him with what? Seems to me that no coach in the universe has an understanding that football has both offense and defense. Exhibit A: The Sultan of Southlake and his utter disregard for the other team running up 56 points by halftime every game.

I'm pretty frustrated watching some of the most impotent offense ever to set foot on the field, but I really have no idea what a viable replacement would be. Sure, everybody here can post wishlists of Nick Saban coming to Denton, but we have to be realistic about what the job is and who it attracts as candidates.

UTSA Fan · June 14, 2015

I'm sure it all comes down to money. I'm guessing a lot of teams got nice deals to play home and homes your first couple of years. In 2015 and 2016 UH has Texas State instead of UTSA. I'm guessing we got a better financial deal on our home game with them than we could get out of UTSA.
So let's talk scheduling strategy: 1) We're going to have the paycheck FCS games so we can have 7 home/Houston games (OU is at NRG Stadium). 2) We'll probably have a Texas G5 team with a decent financial deal. The next 2 years, that's TX State. In the future, Rice is back on the schedule to fill that role. 3) We're toughening our schedule up with P5 schools. 2015 - Louisville and Vanderbilt, 2016 - OU and Louisville, 2017 - Texas Tech and Arizona.
I just don't think there was room on the schedule with that strategy.

Thanks for the insight. I'm still new to how a program runs so I appreciate your input. Don't let C.K. dissuade your efforts. He has earned his black listing on multiple sites for presenting himself as a neurotic blow-hard.

Edited June 14, 2015 by UTSA Fan