Denton Caravan

ColoradoEagle · June 1, 2015

First of all, if you've been to a game at TCU, I don't know what you're lauding their little erector set bandbox for. It's a unique design, but it's shitty construction and the berm has zero view of the infield. The seating in the grandstand feels not unlike the endzone bleachers of Fouts, you're shoulders compressed inward the whole time because the horizontal space allotted to each seat makes economy class on Spirit Airlines look like a day at the spa.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying TCU is an amazing facility. The difference between it and Baylor is a pretty large gap. What I'm referring to is those initial designs being shopped around for funding and how absolutely cut rate they look, even next to average facilities like TCU.

Now then, on to doing this on the cheap. Give me an example of RV backed construction that has been on the cheap. If anything, facilities are the one thing he can really be proud of. I'm fairly certain that efforts are in place to raise private capital for the stadium, and that those private funds demand a certain standard of construction.

Apogee is amazing... and paid for by students. I wouldn't consider any of our other facilities acquired during RV's tenure as all that hot.

Edited June 1, 2015 by ColoradoEagle

oldguystudent · June 1, 2015

What I'm referring to is those initial designs being shopped around for funding and how absolutely cut rate they look, even next to average facilities like TCU.

When the campaign was still on before the whole accounting scandal, the drawings making the rounds looked nothing like what you've posted here. The drawings you posted here remind me of the initial drawings for Apogee which looked like nothing more than an oval with benches in it.

ColoradoEagle · June 1, 2015

Good to hear. Don't suppose you have an image? Are you referring to these?

oldguystudent · June 1, 2015

That would be them. Those are more recent than what you posted.

There are some others out there somewhere that show a little more detail on the seating and concourse. I've been to a lot of college ballparks in my life. If ours looks anything like those pictures, it's gonna really be something to be proud of.

Edited June 1, 2015 by oldguystudent

ColoradoEagle · June 1, 2015

Looking at those, assuming it's 3k+, it's hard not to get excited. Just too burned out on being teased with it. I would hope that they make the whole thing chairback instead of just the middle seats as shown.

Edited June 1, 2015 by ColoradoEagle

oldguystudent · June 1, 2015

I am more optimistic this week than I was last week. I mean, I'm not gonna commit to sealing a plastic bag over my head, depriving myself of sweet, sweet oxygen in anticipation of taking the field for first pitch 2016, but neither am I resigned to 1988 being the last year UNT would ever field a team.

Harry · June 1, 2015

@oldguystudent is right. The facilities built under RV have gone beyond expectations given the budget. Apogee being the primary example.

GMG24 · June 1, 2015

Could they flip this field around so we can sit in the shade? Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Army of Dad · June 1, 2015

Could they flip this field around so we can sit in the shade? Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Despite this orientation being my personal preference, no, they (probably) can't.

The size and shape of the lot dictates the stadium footprint will be as it appears in the most recent pictures Coloradoeagle posted.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Army of Dad

untjim1995 · June 1, 2015

@oldguystudent is right. The facilities built under RV have gone beyond expectations given the budget. Apogee being the primary example.

Obviously, no one would call me RV's biggest fan, but Harry is dead-on about this. The MG Village and Apogee are absolutely wonderful, which did happen on RV's watch. I suspect that if baseball does happen here, a new stadium will be small, but will still look very nice.

I worry about putting too many eggs into baseball here. The sport doesn't draw terribly high attendance numbers, its rarely on TV, and did fail at UNT back in the 80s. I think people look at UTAs program back in the day, as well as Dallas Baptist's today and think we should be able to duplicate their success. I'm not sure how realistic that is, at least in the first 5 years or so.

I still think that the best use of resources is to continue funding football and basketball as much as possible--meaning that we fire people when warranted, not when it is deemed affordable. I like watching college baseball right now as they prepare for the College World Series, but all I see it doing at UNT in the near future is drawing away precious financial resources that could go toward an indoor facility and toward getting better coaches's salaries/buyouts...

Travis Scott · June 1, 2015

I think we would be successful in baseball very quickly. There are a ton of really good players in the North Texas area. There is only 1 (UTA) four year public school in the area that offers baseball. To my knowledge, baseball scholarships are partial so the player would have to fund some of their schooling. Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

If the player does have to pay some of their own way, I'd bet they choose NT over UTA and the private schools that offer baseball. Plus, there are a lot of good JC programs out there that we could pull from to field a team with experience.

Ben Gooding · June 1, 2015

Obviously, no one would call me RV's biggest fan, but Harry is dead-on about this. The MG Village and Apogee are absolutely wonderful, which did happen on RV's watch. I suspect that if baseball does happen here, a new stadium will be small, but will still look very nice.
I worry about putting too many eggs into baseball here. The sport doesn't draw terribly high attendance numbers, its rarely on TV, and did fail at UNT back in the 80s. I think people look at UTAs program back in the day, as well as Dallas Baptist's today and think we should be able to duplicate their success. I'm not sure how realistic that is, at least in the first 5 years or so.
I still think that the best use of resources is to continue funding football and basketball as much as possible--meaning that we fire people when warranted, not when it is deemed affordable. I like watching college baseball right now as they prepare for the College World Series, but all I see it doing at UNT in the near future is drawing away precious financial resources that could go toward an indoor facility and toward getting better coaches's salaries/buyouts...

I disagree. Baseball could be something good here and could be something good very quickly. We have a realistic shot to make national noise in baseball. That alone is more than we can currently say about any sport at North Texas. The sucess of college baseball in the state of Texas (and also surrounding areas) is unmatched.

Houston Baptist, Houston, Rice, TCU, Texas, Dallas Baptist, ATM and Texas Southern all made the college baseball tourney. Not to mention Baylor and Tech as usual solid teams. As far as regional teams there is Mizz St, Tulane, Ok St, LSU, ULL, Ark etc in this years field as well. Also, there are 26 teams in this year's field that aren't even true FBS teams. To add to this, three of our conference peers made the tourney and 2 of them made a little noise with Rice still alive, for now. If there ever was a niche to put us on the map from an athletic perspective, baseball is it. Most players stay at minimum regional when choosing their program to play at because the scholarships just aren't comparable to football. Unlike in football, being in this part of the country will pay dividends almost immediately.

untjim1995 · June 1, 2015

I disagree. Baseball could be something good here and could be something good very quickly. We have a realistic shot to make national noise in baseball. That alone is more than we can currently say about any sport at North Texas. The sucess of college baseball in the state of Texas (and also surrounding areas) is unmatched.
Houston Baptist, Houston, Rice, TCU, Texas, Dallas Baptist, ATM and Texas Southern all made the college baseball tourney. Not to mention Baylor and Tech as usual solid teams. As far as regional teams there is Mizz St, Tulane, Ok St, LSU, ULL, Ark etc in this years field as well. Also, there are 26 teams in this year's field that aren't even true FBS teams. To add to this, three of our conference peers made the tourney and 2 of them made a little noise with Rice still alive, for now. If there ever was a niche to put us on the map from an athletic perspective, baseball is it. Most players stay at minimum regional when choosing their program to play at because the scholarships just aren't comparable to football. Unlike in football, being in this part of the country will pay dividends almost immediately.

I'd sure like to believe this, but I also know that we didn't support baseball at all when we had it in the 80s, according to students and alumni who were around during that time. Maybe we will do it better this time, hopefully? I just don't want another sport taking resources from the revenue programs that we need to win in now.

GMG24 · June 1, 2015

I only kid, I knew they wouldnt pay to turn the field around more cost effective to leave it as it was when LCS was there and add the nice stands etc around.

MeanGreenTexan · June 1, 2015

I am more optimistic this week than I was last week. I mean, I'm not gonna commit to sealing a plastic bag over my head, depriving myself of sweet, sweet oxygen in anticipation of taking the field for first pitch 2016, but neither am I resigned to 1988 being the last year UNT would ever field a team.

Give me the plastic bag. I need some NT Baseball, and I need it NOW!

Army of Dad · June 1, 2015

Give me the plastic bag. I need some NT Baseball, and I need it NOW!

Wait, are you going to put it on oldguystudent or yourself?

MeanGreenTexan · June 1, 2015

Wait, are you going to put it on oldguystudent or yourself?

I'm all in on the anticipation of 2016 baseball at North Texas.

He's farting around.

Mean Green 93-98 · June 1, 2015

I'd sure like to believe this, but I also know that we didn't support baseball at all when we had it in the 80s, according to students and alumni who were around during that time. Maybe we will do it better this time, hopefully? I just don't want another sport taking resources from the revenue programs that we need to win in now.

We didn't have an actual stadium. If I remember right, the UNT team played at a little league field up at Northlakes Park(?). It's debatable as to whether what we had could be called at legitimate NCAA baseball program. So it's no surprise that it wasn't well supported by students, alumni, or the community.

And based on everything RV has said, we're only going to start baseball up if we can fund it properly.

Additionally, how much attendance is football bringing in these days compared to the 80's? We may not be close to Big XII-level, but I think it's fair to say that people are more interested in UNT athletics overall than they were in the 80's.

As far as the concerns about baseball taking funding from other programs, that's fair. But it does seem that baseball will open up some new revenue sources presently not going into NT athletics at all.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Mean Green 93-98

untcampbell · June 1, 2015

We played at Mack Park, on the same field I played church league softball. Let's just say that stadium amenities were lacking. In spite of that, I enjoyed watching my team play and say 4-5 games/season while I was there. My recall is that the team was allotted 2 scholarships, split amongst the players. That is basically a Big Chief notepad and coupons to McDonalds.

I would not support another underfunded effort to field baseball, just for the sake of funding another collegiate sport. But these days, we seem to figure out a way to provide adequate or better facilities and to be competitive in the non-revenue sports.

GMG

oldguystudent · June 1, 2015

I would not support another underfunded effort to field baseball, just for the sake of funding another collegiate sport. But these days, we seem to figure out a way to provide adequate or better facilities and to be competitive in the non-revenue sports.
GMG

All baseball is underfunded. 11.7 scholarships for 30 players. That's why there's so much parity. That's why Dallas Baptist is on the verge of a super regional after knocking out mighty Texas. That's why UNT has a great chance at being successful quickly.

meangreen15 · June 29, 2015

"The big question remains when UNT will move forward with its plans to restart its baseball program. I first wrote the story that the program is just around the corner in 2004. Well, Rick Villarreal reiterated that there could be some news in the next few days that will set the stage for UNT to move forward with its plans. My assumption is that could involve a resolution to the accounting fiasco that has UNT waiting to see how much money it will have to pay back to the state. There are enough big money boosters who could step in once that is settled and put the program on the fast track."

Has there been any update on the news about the baseball program? RV said a month ago that'd we'd get news in a few days, and we all know how his word is as good as gold....

untcampbell · June 29, 2015

Not an official source but I am hearing 3-5 years. And yes, apparently it is at least partly related to the unraveling of the above-mentioned fiasco.

GMG

10Eagle10 · June 29, 2015

A couple of thoughts:

1. For the person who thought being a public school was a scholarship advantage. Actually, it appears that under the current rules private schools have an advantage due to being able to provide more scholarship money. See TCU, Vanderbilt, Miami in CWS. See Rice, DBU as well. Additionally, LSU has a unique advantage because te state of Louisiana provides free tuition to Louisiana kids that maintain a 3.0 in hs. They're really able to stretch those 11.7 scholarships.

2. With the current legislation and new rules for the P5, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see baseball scholarships increased to 20-25 per team. If this happens, the parity talked about in this thread will begin to erode an then disappear

untjim1995 · June 29, 2015

A couple of thoughts:
1. For the person who thought being a public school was a scholarship advantage. Actually, it appears that under the current rules private schools have an advantage due to being able to provide more scholarship money. See TCU, Vanderbilt, Miami in CWS. See Rice, DBU as well. Additionally, LSU has a unique advantage because te state of Louisiana provides free tuition to Louisiana kids that maintain a 3.0 in hs. They're really able to stretch those 11.7 scholarships.

2. With the current legislation and new rules for the P5, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see baseball scholarships increased to 20-25 per team. If this happens, the parity talked about in this thread will begin to erode an then disappear

I agree, especially on the last point. Frankly, I cannot understand how P5s schools cannot make money with baseball. It seems like it would be an easy sell. You only have a weekend series at home about every other week, as well as the odd in-week game. I think that sport has as much a chance as college basketball did of making a huge leap up in the sports conscience. Networks are starting to carry the games more often, the ESPN coverage of the regionals and super-regionals, as well as the CWS, is fantastic in my opinon, very similar to the great NCAA Tournament coverage they had back in the 80's.

I still think that Title IX's biggest fault is allowing football to be considered as a component. Take football away from Title IX and set a floor, whether in % or $$$, that ensures appropriate funding for the womens programs and other non-revenue programs for the men. Then, if that was the case, you could easiily increase scholarships in baseball, softball, etc...as stating compliant with Title IX would be much easier.