Growth in MGC and Season Tickets 2002-2014

[DallasGreen]

So no blame falls on the AD for not capitalizing on 2013? Just blame all the fence sitting fans for not doing all the work to get tickets? I know you're BFFs with a lot of higher ups so you'll never publicly criticize them, but don't come on here and guilt trip the people who do. Because the vast majority of people here are in the MGC and buy season tickets. It's not our job to grow season ticket sales, that's what the AD gets PAID to do. The season tickets numbers are an absolute embarrassment, especially after 2013, and the AD has no one to blame but themselves. RV saying that they've done everything needed to attract fans is absolute BS when you look at our records in football and basketball the past 5 years.

Yep...only at UNT will the athletic department deflect the blame on fans for their failures.

According to MAC at spring signing gathering IT IS OUR JOB TO SELL SEASON TICKETS AND MGC MEMBERSHIPS. And he had lots of curse word adjectives and hollering to let that be known.

[oldguystudent]

You see...that is EXACTLY the problem. It is not about a sticker and you are not selling a sticker. Until our so-called fans understand that simple fact progress will be vey very slow in coming. Such attitude of "what do I get" is exactly what is keeping us behind our peers in fundraising, support and progress. Only at Nirth Texas are folks more interested in what they "get" than who/what they are supporting.

I am interested in what I am selling. I know exactly zero people who are going to cough up $25 for the sake of coughing up $25. None. We aren't selling children dying of cancer or make-a-wish or building playgrounds in disadvantaged neighborhoods. We are selling people on becoming supporters of a football team and an overall athletic program. The vast majority of people, nay, nearly the entirety of the population that isn't already here are going to see that as an entertainment expenditure. What entertainment are they getting for their $25?

I am interested in getting more people to buy season tickets. I have had some modicum of success and failure on that over the past couple years.

I was excited about the $25 thing because I knew some people who were interested in dipping their toe in the water, but not for whatever it costs to get full-blown season tickets.

This is not an "Only at North Texas" thing. That phrase is only useful when passively deriding others who are already fully on board here.

This is a "know your market" thing. Before you get people giving gifts to the university, they need to be able to see what they're giving to.

[SilverEagle]

You know, I'm kind of surprised that you even acknowledge the fact that winning, just by itself, doesn't do it for fans/students/alumni of NT. Since I authored the "wrinkled $100 bill" saying about NT students and their fondness for bitching about anything and everything (circa 1974), I'll have to agree with you about your "fans are more fond of bitching than looking for solutions" stance.

I think you and I also agree that new facilities and a higher profile coach doesn't seem to be (by themselves) "doing it" for the fans/students/alumni.

So the question presents itself. What the hell does, (or could possibly), do it for fans/students/alumni?

I'll start off by saying "there is no silver bullet/microwave" solution.

So................

[KRAM1]

Who are our true peers, and what numbers are they hitting that are better than ours? Honest question.

Also, this line is just frustration boiling over and doesn't help anyone: "Only at Nirth Texas are folks more interested in what they "get" than who/what they are supporting."

That would be Only at NORTH TEXAS not Nirth Texas. Sorry...bad typing skills. And, I use the "Only at North Texas" line in direct response to those who use it to deride UNT and anything they can. If you don't even know who are peers are, well, I simply can't help you. Honest answer.

[UNTFan23]

I think where the "value" of the Mean Green Club donation (and to a certain degree season tickets) doesn't come in for a lot of people is that there is not a scarcity of resources (seats) in Apogee or the Super Pit and so there is no real need to cough up money to move closer to the front of the line to get decent seats. That right there might be the biggest obstacle to overcome in increasing both season ticket sales and MGC donor levels.

[Cerebus]

I am dumbfounded by some of the reactions in this thread. There are just some basic disconnects with reality that feel need to be address:

1) People who have attend/graduate from NT have ZERO OBLIGATION TO GIVE MONEY TO THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT. Just like they have no obligation to give to the College of Engineering, or the Emerald Eagle Program, or Teach North Texas, etc. I am a MGC member and I pay the stadium donation to sit in the club level, but in the last few years the wife and I have found ourselves giving more money to COBA than to athletics, why?

* COBA clearly communicates goals and objectives.

* They clearly demonstrate what your money is being used for.

* They continue to update you on the performance of both their new goals and objectives and continuing business.

* They hold people accountable and enact change when either new goals or continuing processes fail to meet expectations.

2) The University has assigned someone the obligation of raising funds for the athletic department and increasing giving and attendance. RV IS THE PERSON WITH THE OBLIGATION WHEN IT COMES TO AD FUNDRAISING.

3) RV isn't doing this out of the goodness of his heart. Some of you act like he is a self less volunteer. RV is paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Every one of those reasons is an obligation.

4) APATHY AND A HISTORY OF APATHY IS NO LONGER AN EXCUSE FOR RV. It was at the start, it was five years after he was here, after a decade it starts to weaken. By now, the CONTINUED apathy is a mark on him, not a excuse for under performance as it was in the beginning.

[KRAM1]

I am interested in what I am selling. I know exactly zero people who are going to cough up $25 for the sake of coughing up $25. None. We aren't selling children dying of cancer or make-a-wish or building playgrounds in disadvantaged neighborhoods. We are selling people on becoming supporters of a football team and an overall athletic program. The vast majority of people, nay, nearly the entirety of the population that isn't already here are going to see that as an entertainment expenditure. What entertainment are they getting for their $25?

I am interested in getting more people to buy season tickets. I have had some modicum of success and failure on that over the past couple years.

I was excited about the $25 thing because I knew some people who were interested in dipping their toe in the water, but not for whatever it costs to get full-blown season tickets.

This is not an "Only at North Texas" thing. That phrase is only useful when passively deriding others who are already fully on board here.

This is a "know your market" thing. Before you get people giving gifts to the university, they need to be able to see what they're giving to.

I know you understand, Tony, it's to those who are upset they get a sticker and that's all for their $25 donation....it's called a donation for a reason....that I am referring to in my post. It has ZERO to do with entertainment and 100% to do with support for UNT student-athletes. It's support for one's university, not a retail sale. Those of us, the few...the proud, who actually do try to help increase membership need to "sell" that...not the prize, not the retail value of the sticker or anything else other than the fact that it is your university and you are helping provide an education for some 300+ scholarship athletes...many of whom even in this day and age will be the first to graduate college in their entire families. You are providing support for many student-athletes who would not be in college without these scholarships in addition to helping some who would definitely otherwise be able to attend college without the help.

Maybe it's a younger generation thing in making this very real and important distinction between "buying a retail product" and supporting one's university through a donation...not a purchase. I really don't know if it is a younger generation thing or just a North Texas thing, but I do not get that attitude when I raise funds for any of the other three universities I help volunteer with. It is "only at North Texas" that this attitude of "what's in it for me" and "what do I get" seems to manifest itself so often....even at an ask of $25. The other schools "targets" just seems to be happy that I am not hitting them up for multi-hundred dollar donations regularly.

The benefits of membership are nice, of course, but the support for our students is THE point and the only important point in this whole Mean Green Club thing. The benefits to the university and to the student and, yes, to the athletic department go way beyond the "what do I get" thing. It I saddens me that so many of our so-called fans do not grasp this very basic of concepts.

If folks who graduated from North Texas, have students attending North Texas, have student-athletes at North Texas, or who live in

Denton and the surrounding area cannot "see" or understand what they are giving to, well, then the battle is lost before it even begins. As is said...there none so blind as they who will not see.

[Censored by Laurie]

I don't understand why people continue to post in a thread after Cerebus has written a paragraphed, bullet-pointed, multi-font response.

it's always right.

[Cerebus]

So let's say we do (hypothetically speaking) get new leadership in the Athletic Department. I doubt the goals will change very much. This board might blow up if the new leader actually lowers those goals but it could be whoever is in charge feels a lower goal is more attainable/realistic. What exactly would change that gets more people to buy season tickets? Become Mean Green Club donors? Get more schools to want to play us both home and away for even 2-game series?

This is the "If you can't tell me exactly how to fix it, you don't get to complain excuse." It's nonsensical. When was Dodge was here running this program into the ground I could not tell you exactly how to fix it. I am not a college football coach. I don't know how to reorganize recruiting grounds, or bring in coordinators, or how to make outreaches to local HS coaches.

But I did know what Dodge was doing was not impressive, and I was ready for a change. Same thing here. RV is paid hundreds of thousands of dollars, and for that he has in creased MGC members ship by 864 OVER 12 YEARS. Those numbers look even worse when you notice that 114 of them are of the $25 min Recent Graduate level, that didn't even exist in 2002.

I just see people saying that getting new leadership will suddenly make everything better. I could name a couple companies where getting a new CEO actually put the company in a worse position than before (Plano's JCPenney for one!). No one knows who would be the Athletic Department's new CEO and what that person will do and whether it will be beneficial or hurtful for all the programs here at North Texas.

I'm just tired of seeing people saying to get rid of RV and bringing in someone new as our next silver bullet when in truth no one knows what will actually happen.

This is the "the new guy might not be any better" argument, again nonsensical to me. Why did we even get rid of Dodge in that case? Why did we get rid of Dickey? Isn't that an exact example getting rid of someone (DD) and then getting someone even worse (TD)?

You do it because you think the current guy is under performing. You don't know if the next guy will do better or worse, but you know under performance when you see it. I don't know what else you could call those numbers.

I think where the "value" of the Mean Green Club donation (and to a certain degree season tickets) doesn't come in for a lot of people is that there is not a scarcity of resources (seats) in Apogee or the Super Pit and so there is no real need to cough up money to move closer to the front of the line to get decent seats. That right there might be the biggest obstacle to overcome in increasing both season ticket sales and MGC donor levels.

No one in CUSA, with the exception of ODU has scarcity pressure. Despite that, and despite the fact we have a larger alumni base than those schools, they are whipping us on ticket sales.

[Cerebus]

If folks who graduated from North Texas, have students attending North Texas, have student-athletes at North Texas, or who live in

Denton and the surrounding area cannot "see" or understand what they are giving to, well, then the battle is lost before it even begins. As is said...there none so blind as they who will not see.

If only there was someone who the University paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to convince those alumni to see or understand...

[Ben Gooding]

I agree with Cerebus entirely. I agree with KRAM on the aspects of giving to your university is a donation and should not be considered a purchase in any manner. I personally believe that one's donataion should coincide with the stability of the athletic program. That is seemingly the only voice we may have.

[Cerebus]

I agree with Cerebus entirely.

Wait... I'm starting to re-think some things...

[Ben Gooding]

Haha

[KRAM1]

If only there was someone who the University paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to convince those alumni to see or understand...

That's right. I forgot that UNT alums need to be led by the hand to understand or see any of this. Geeezzzz...Only at North Texas do so many give so many cover for their lack of support. I guess I give our alums much more credit.

Your post is a perfect example of "none so blind as they who will not see". I just too often forget it is Only at North Texas. Thanks for the reminder.

[KRAM1]

I am dumbfounded by some of the reactions in this thread. There are just some basic disconnects with reality that feel need to be address:

1) People who have attend/graduate from NT have ZERO OBLIGATION TO GIVE MONEY TO THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT. Just like they have no obligation to give to the College of Engineering, or the Emerald Eagle Program, or Teach North Texas, etc. I am a MGC member and I pay the stadium donation to sit in the club level, but in the last few years the wife and I have found ourselves giving more money to COBA than to athletics, why?

* COBA clearly communicates goals and objectives.

* They clearly demonstrate what your money is being used for.

* They continue to update you on the performance of both their new goals and objectives and continuing business.

* They hold people accountable and enact change when either new goals or continuing processes fail to meet expectations.

2) The University has assigned someone the obligation of raising funds for the athletic department and increasing giving and attendance. RV IS THE PERSON WITH THE OBLIGATION WHEN IT COMES TO AD FUNDRAISING.

3) RV isn't doing this out of the goodness of his heart. Some of you act like he is a self less volunteer. RV is paid hundreds of thousands of dollars. Every one of those reasons is an obligation.

4) APATHY AND A HISTORY OF APATHY IS NO LONGER AN EXCUSE FOR RV. It was at the start, it was five years after he was here, after a decade it starts to weaken. By now, the CONTINUED apathy is a mark on him, not a excuse for under performance as it was in the beginning.

Your opinions and you are more than welcome to them. And, you should be commended for your support of UNT overall. Glad you also give to COBRA as I agree with every point you made regarding that college. I don't care where or how much one donates to any program...I only care "if" they donate. Where is their choice completely. But, There is a point to be made about Mean Green Club donations. They go to support student-athletes who span the reach of the colleges at UNT...many of whom are COBRA students by the way. So, you support COBRA as well as Arts and Sciences, Engineering, etc. when you donate to the Mean Green Club. Your stadium donation for your club seats did go to athletics, of course, Mean Green Club donations support students. So while you are "dumbfounded by the disconnect" perhaps you might not want to throw all athletic donations in the same pot. Some care to support COBRA and other College's at UNT through their MGC donations. One definitely has no "obligation" to donate to any cause of any kind much less their university.

Question...is apathy and history still an excuse for our so-called fans? You hammer apathy that your perceive among others, but fail to grasp that it is a two-way street. Okie State did not start winning until it's donors had had enough of being a lower tier conference program and helped provide the funds and support necessary to move forward. And, it was in no way all Boone. Go to Stillwater and see for yourself on game day how many club seats and skybox seats are filled and then check what they cost. UNT has probably a forth the number of club seats as OSU and every club seat at OSU is full on game day as are the boxes and the bowl. The new indoor practice facility is not named for Boone either. Talk to Mike Holder and Mike Gundy and Coach Ford about how much the smaller donations have fueled OSU's rise. So, I ask, is it only your perceived apathy of other than the fans that needs to change? Is it in any sense a two-way street?

Apathy...support...got it. Here's a fact for you...over one-half of the folks who RSVP'd for the Dallas Caravan event today failed to show up. How's that for apathy? Really sets the stage for folks wanting to keep beating their collective heads against the wall, right? So, after over 200 calls to local fans and Mean Green Club members by athletic department staff, after numerous Facebook posts and re-posts, along with MGC emails it appears that after RSVP's some 100+ folks will attend in Dallas. Less than half of the RSVP's show! Don't want to come, too busy, too far away, too apathetic...no problem. Don't come. But to RSVP and not show is pretty shameful. Sure there are legit reasons and "stuff happens", but not to 50% of an RSVP list. Shameful.

Folks, you want change? Then make it happen. The way that is done is through support. Not through sitting around on some message board and finding every lame excuse and reason why you won't support.

[KRAM1]

I don't understand why people continue to post in a thread after Cerebus has written a paragraphed, bullet-pointed, multi-font response.

it's always right.

Indeed he thinks he is....I simply keep forgetting that point.

[KRAM1]

I agree with Cerebus entirely. I agree with KRAM on the aspects of giving to your university is a donation and should not be considered a purchase in any manner. I personally believe that one's donataion should coincide with the stability of the athletic program. That is seemingly the only voice we may have.

OK, the sky really is falling...Ben has agreed with Cerebus and me in the same post! The rapture is surely upon us!

Thanks, Ben.

[Cerebus]

That's right. I forgot that UNT alums need to be led by the hand to understand or see any of this. Geeezzzz...Only at North Texas do so many give so many cover for their lack of support. I guess I give our alums much more credit.

What and awful, entitled view. There are thousands of programs at UNT every alum can support. No one can support them all. To have the gall to say "every alum owes my organization money and if they don't give it's their fault" is just a abject failure of leadership.

NO ONE OWES THE ALUMNI ASSOCIATION OR THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT A DIME.

If a group can't convince someone to support their organization of the thousands on campus, or millions off campus, then the failure is on them.

[TIgreen01]

What and awful, entitled view. There are thousands of programs at UNT every alum can support. No one can support them all. To have the gall to say "every alum owes my organization money and if they don't give it's their fault" is just a abject failure of leadership.

NO ONE OWES THE ALUMNI ASSOCIATION OR THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT A DIME.

If a group can't convince someone to support their organization of the thousands on campus, or millions off campus, then the failure is on them.

I'm with CBL. This thread is done. As is this topic, forevermore. Cerebus wins.

[Cerebus]

Glad you also give to COBRA as I agree with every point you made regarding that college.

If you agree with the fact that COB (their preferred name) is doing an exemplary job, why not ask for the athletic department to be run to the same standard?

Question...is apathy and history still an excuse for our so-called fans? You hammer apathy that your perceive among others, but fail to grasp that it is a two-way street.

It's only a two way street if you think everyone OWES money to the athletic department. I do agree that those that style themselves "fans" should support the program to the best of their ability. The disconnect between me and you is that you don't seem to realize that the VAST MAJORITY of alumni do not consider themselves to be fans.

RV is tasked with making as many alumni fans and donors as possible. He's had 15 years to do it. I do think the current levels are the top percentage we could get. It seems to me someone else should get a shot to improve the situation.

Folks, you want change? Then make it happen. The way that is done is through support. Not through sitting around on some message board and finding every lame excuse and reason why you won't support.

Once again you, like RV and MAC, seem to be tone deaf to the audience. The people on the board are not the problem, we are for the most part people who give.

Second, you only "have to find an excuse" if you have an obligation to avoid. Get it in your head, alumna have NO OBLIGATION to give. Getting those alumna to become fans and give is RV's job.

[forevereagle]

YGlad you also give to COBRA as I agree with every point you made regarding that college.

...many of whom are COBRA students by the way. So, you support COBRA as well as Arts and Sciences, Engineering, etc.

Some care to support COBRA and other College's at UNT through their MGC donations.

They are pretty clear about their goals...

[KRAM1]

What and awful, entitled view. There are thousands of programs at UNT every alum can support. No one can support them all. To have the gall to say "every alum owes my organization money and if they don't give it's their fault" is just a abject failure of leadership.

NO ONE OWES THE ALUMNI ASSOCIATION OR THE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT A DIME.

If a group can't convince someone to support their organization of the thousands on campus, or millions off campus, then the failure is on them.

Preach on! You certainly have the right to your views. But, please show us all where anyone said anyone "owes" support. The word "owes" is the operative word here, so while you refuse to contemplate the point I try to make while railing upon any disagreement with your position, please find that "owes" word being used. I, for one, do not believe I have ever said that people "owe" anything. And, as much as you might not like them, my views are mine just as your views are yours. The "awful and entitled" concept is all yours. If my views hit you in some spot that causes such reaction and hyperbole you might just want to put me on ignore. It is a message board and opinion board as UNT90 likes to point out.

[JesseMartin]

Let me define my usual spot in the middle on this topic.

First off, Kram and others similarly aligned should remember that not everyone is as altruistic as we are. I love giving money when I can, and time and support when the money isn't available. It makes me feel great, like I've contributed and helped in a way as to be a part of something bigger and something special. Not everybody feels that way, so to recruit outside of the 10% or so that are like us, we need to give them incentives. T-shirts, beer discounts, and pretty much everything else mentioned are all great ideas. Success would help too, but developing camaraderie and excitement and fun can be a temporary substitute, though I'd rather not have any more of the embarrassing losses for newcomers to see. Disappointing losses happen to everyone, but they shouldn't regularly be 30-40 points.

On the other side of the coin, remember...altruism CAN be infectious! So if it is about 10% of us who are in the "altruistic supporter" category, fine, but let's use incentives to get people around long enough to catch our enthusiasm! Use the best parts of both sides of this disagreement to formulate better solutions! Also, incentives can be a tantalizing means by which to get people to increase their commitment level. If you're doing a couple hundred bucks, and the next level up is a sweet UNT warm-up or some other enticing option that is included with only a couple hundred dollars' more in giving, people might dig a little deeper. Plus, there are always people like me who love UNT swag, and if it's not only exclusive but also AWESOME, we might have to find a way to come up with the cash that we don't really have, just to get that extra-cool thing.

It works both ways. Don't let it divide you; it's like the whole "tastes great/less filling" or "Team Peanut Butter/Team Chocolate" debate: regardless of which you feel is the more important aspect of the scenario, the fact is that combining the two works better overall for everybody, so who really cares in the long run?

[Dr. Seuss]

People wont get all excited about one winning season, especially when you haven't had one winning season since 2004. It takes more than one bowl victory over UNLV to change that. If you cant see that, then you need to get out of the green kool-aid well.

It's not the money, people have $25 to give but they do not feel like their money is going to a useful program. Why keep giving good food to a dead horse?? At some point it's the AD responsibility to put a winning program on the field.

Those 2004 goals are very unrealistic, anyone who set that is asking to fail.

[Ben Gooding]

Let me define my usual spot in the middle on this topic.

First off, Kram and others similarly aligned should remember that not everyone is as altruistic as we are. I love giving money when I can, and time and support when the money isn't available. It makes me feel great, like I've contributed and helped in a way as to be a part of something bigger and something special. Not everybody feels that way, so to recruit outside of the 10% or so that are like us, we need to give them incentives. T-shirts, beer discounts, and pretty much everything else mentioned are all great ideas. Success would help too, but developing camaraderie and excitement and fun can be a temporary substitute, though I'd rather not have any more of the embarrassing losses for newcomers to see. Disappointing losses happen to everyone, but they shouldn't regularly be 30-40 points.

On the other side of the coin, remember...altruism CAN be infectious! So if it is about 10% of us who are in the "altruistic supporter" category, fine, but let's use incentives to get people around long enough to catch our enthusiasm! Use the best parts of both sides of this disagreement to formulate better solutions! Also, incentives can be a tantalizing means by which to get people to increase their commitment level. If you're doing a couple hundred bucks, and the next level up is a sweet UNT warm-up or some other enticing option that is included with only a couple hundred dollars' more in giving, people might dig a little deeper. Plus, there are always people like me who love UNT swag, and if it's not only exclusive but also AWESOME, we might have to find a way to come up with the cash that we don't really have, just to get that extra-cool thing.

It works both ways. Don't let it divide you; it's like the whole "tastes great/less filling" or "Team Peanut Butter/Team Chocolate" debate: regardless of which you feel is the more important aspect of the scenario, the fact is that combining the two works better overall for everybody, so who really cares in the long run?

Bravo.