MGB: Interesting report on C-USA football ticket sales

UTSA Fan · May 20, 2015

The issue is not walk up available for every game. The tipping point that starts triggering season ticket sales is when at least one game a season sells out. If you can buy decent seats every game at walk up, why not do that? But if there's one game that will sell out, you buy season tickets to make sure that you don't get shut out of that game.

But how do you get that sell out? Unfortunately it is probably a gradual process. Most likely you need that opponent that excites the fan base and/or brings in opponent fans. But how do you get that opponent to come to Apogee? You probably need to increase average attendance enough to make a decent financial offer to that opponent. You probably have to do a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 initially. Then you have to sell that game out. Otherwise you don't get the season ticket bump and you can't schedule another bigger opponent because it doesn't make sense financially for UNT or prestige wise for the opponent.

But it all comes down to getting that sell out, whatever it takes. It's probably that big opponent, but it could be an awesome winning run, good marketing, or something else. But until that sell out happens, getting season ticket sales up is tough.

I sure hope your wrong... #65K

untjim1995 · May 20, 2015

This isn't a terribly surprising number. I'll say this, when you don't play anyone that people care about for 95% of your home games, you aren't gonna get people out to the stadium if you are losing, even season ticket holders. Even when you are winning, if you are playing a team that Texans don't care anything about, you aren't going to get great attendance. Today's conference schedule is light years better than it has ever been, but you still run into the issue that CUSA's other three Texas schools all play here in the same season, meaning we then play there the next year, thus giving us three non-Texas home games for divisional opponents. The "good" news here is that the Texas schools are here in opposite seasons as our gigantic rivalry game against SMU that supposedly everyone demanded we get. Also, in the SMU years in Denton, we get Louisiana Tech, who Texans do care about way more than they ever did ULM or ULL. So that means we have two or three decent teams to get some people to come watch us play. Obviously, through the years people barely care about any other current SBCUSA team that we play. The FCS thing is even worse, but that horse is already out of the barn now with the wonderful teams like Texas Southern, Nicholls State, Portland State, Incarnate Word, Lamar, and Abilene Christian being on the schedule. Add in the fact that our OOC schedule is basically locked for years ahead, and P5 teams are predictably looking at ways to play most of their OOC non-P5 games at home going forward, it throws more toxicity into the equation . Then, combine all this with the lost generations of the UNT Alumni that don't give a rat's ass about our sports teams, and you have a mountain that almost looks too big to even try to climb, which is basically how the administration and BOR have treated athletics forever here.

But the good news is that the recent student body and alums do seem to have a much tighter appreciation for UNT Football than those of the past. And, eventually, an OOC could be built in the 2020s that could attract better names here, G5 teams that will play here if its good for them to play us--BYU, MWC teams and other AAC teams. It cannot be fixed until years from now, but it is fixable. And when the P5s do pull away permanently from the G5s, hopefully our conference affiliation will then include even more regional teams that have looked down on us for decades as potential conference mates, teams like UH, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa. That could provide substantial saving on travel, as well as the added benefits of closer universities that can bring their fas to each other's place. A BOR and administration could be ready to really demand winning and better revenues from the athletic department, especially if the P5 tit finally runs dry and you have to get revenues in to fund your program. Basically, it is conceivable that the BOR and administration could reverse their position on athletics that has been in place forever here, even it is highly doubtful.

What I hope for is that Smaetresk will be the lightning rod here and stir the pot up to get this going and the BOR buys in. He then replaces the current AD, places a huge emphasis on winning, and lets Tony Benford know he has one year to make the NCAA or NIT or in another job, then tells Dan McCarney he has until 2016 to get back to .500, since th 2015 schedule he was given is ridiculously bad for a CUSA school of our size.

What I expect is that Smaetresk was told by the BOR to give lip service to athleics, but funding will never be above where we keep it, so anything like the above scenario would result in a firing/early retirement if it was "demanded" for in public. The truism of a leopard doesn't change its spots will probably continue to rear its ugly truth to the very few UNT fans that exist. It is correctable, but the cost would be substantially higher than we have ever given to athletics and would probably result in near-riots among the UNT Family, the 98% who absolutely loathe athletics or absolutely don't care about them at all.

foutsrouts · May 20, 2015

How Mac couldn't help in pulling off at least a 2 for 1 with Iowa is beyond me. I'd certainly rather play them as a road money game than an SEC team, but other teams in our conference somehow seem to be able to schedule home games of that caliber at least every once in awhile. Seems that our scheduling strategy for the foreseeable future is Smu, Army, bodybag, and reverse bodybag. Guess we have to live with that until that ancient "sleeping giant" finally awakens. I'm starting to suspect that the old giant is going to sleep away my entire lifetime.

Ben Gooding · May 20, 2015

All points are valid. The 7-10k students showing up to most if not all home games since Apogre opened will change the trajectory of this athletic department if nothing else does. The problem with this is that it will take time and winning is very important right now to ensure that when the student body gets into their mid to late 20's they are the ones that will start raising the torch for the North Texas fan base. The underlying factor that must happen is winning in order to keep their interest up. We bring in a P5-type student attendance and that is where the future lies and the only thing that will keep theit attention is winning. Winning is a very strong deodorant for a very bad smell.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ben Gooding

UNTFan23 · May 20, 2015

I wish NT fans would get away from the "We have to play someone of interest in order for me to attend a game" mentality otherwise we'll never get this program off the launch pad. We need our fans to have the mentality of "I'm going to go see the Mean Green play" regardless of who the opponent is. That is one thing that helps lead to sell outs and not so much the opponent.

If we're going to rely on the opponent then we will continue to see the once in a decade near sell out.

greenjoe · May 20, 2015

What he said

Quoner · May 20, 2015

If we're going to rely on the opponent then we will continue to see the once in a decade near sell out.

At this point...promise?

southsideguy · May 21, 2015

Stop playing games in the afternoon in Sept.

filmerj · May 21, 2015

Stop playing games in the afternoon in Sept.

Do we want to be on TV? If so, TV and Conference makes that call. I guess you just have to decide at some point what's more important to you. For years the complaint was why aren't we on TV? Now that we are in a conference that has a decent TV deal, we don't like that TV dictates when we play? Unfortunately we are not a P5, we don't get to call those shots. If we feel being on TV only hurts us in attendance then maybe we don't need to be on TV. Another post on here points to that very fact as to why attendance is down overall in college football. So which will it be?

oldguystudent · May 21, 2015

Honestly, isn't the majority of P5 ball played during daylight hours? I mean, I don't exactly like roasting in the sun either, but it is a step in the direction of an actual football program. I just hope that these TV deals don't start to dictate more weeknight games. More than one weeknight a year, and I'd have to seriously reconsider the season ticket commitment. Not because I'd be pissed off, or not feel important enough, or any such nonsense, but I simply can't get to them, especially before October 15th.

filmerj · May 23, 2015

Honestly, isn't the majority of P5 ball played during daylight hours? I mean, I don't exactly like roasting in the sun either, but it is a step in the direction of an actual football program. I just hope that these TV deals don't start to dictate more weeknight games. More than one weeknight a year, and I'd have to seriously reconsider the season ticket commitment. Not because I'd be pissed off, or not feel important enough, or any such nonsense, but I simply can't get to them, especially before October 15th.

We're not the only conference being asked to play weeknights. There was discussion, or maybe an article I read, about how TV would love a FB game on every night of the week. Hell, the nfl started adding a Thursday night game. Now colleges have to compete with that. But if TV does get its way, and TV usually does, guess which schools and conferences will be dealt the weeknight games? It's that double edged sword. Edited May 23, 2015 by filmerj

oldguystudent · May 23, 2015

We're not the only conference being asked to play weeknights. There was discussion, or maybe an article I read, about how TV would love a FB game on every night of the week. Hell, the nfl started adding a Thursday night game. Now colleges have to compete with that. But if TV does get its way, and TV usually does, guess which schools and conferences will be dealt the weeknight games? It's that double edged sword.

Which kinda then gets to the point that there must be a LOT more money in TV because schools seem to have utter disregard that weeknight games hurt attendance. I don't just mean that for UNT, but for any program.

HoustonEagle · May 28, 2015

This isn't a terribly surprising number. I'll say this, when you don't play anyone that people care about for 95% of your home games, you aren't gonna get people out to the stadium if you are losing, even season ticket holders. Even when you are winning, if you are playing a team that Texans don't care anything about, you aren't going to get great attendance. Today's conference schedule is light years better than it has ever been, but you still run into the issue that CUSA's other three Texas schools all play here in the same season, meaning we then play there the next year, thus giving us three non-Texas home games for divisional opponents. The "good" news here is that the Texas schools are here in opposite seasons as our gigantic rivalry game against SMU that supposedly everyone demanded we get. Also, in the SMU years in Denton, we get Louisiana Tech, who Texans do care about way more than they ever did ULM or ULL. So that means we have two or three decent teams to get some people to come watch us play. Obviously, through the years people barely care about any other current SBCUSA team that we play. The FCS thing is even worse, but that horse is already out of the barn now with the wonderful teams like Texas Southern, Nicholls State, Portland State, Incarnate Word, Lamar, and Abilene Christian being on the schedule. Add in the fact that our OOC schedule is basically locked for years ahead, and P5 teams are predictably looking at ways to play most of their OOC non-P5 games at home going forward, it throws more toxicity into the equation . Then, combine all this with the lost generations of the UNT Alumni that don't give a rat's ass about our sports teams, and you have a mountain that almost looks too big to even try to climb, which is basically how the administration and BOR have treated athletics forever here.

But the good news is that the recent student body and alums do seem to have a much tighter appreciation for UNT Football than those of the past. And, eventually, an OOC could be built in the 2020s that could attract better names here, G5 teams that will play here if its good for them to play us--BYU, MWC teams and other AAC teams. It cannot be fixed until years from now, but it is fixable. And when the P5s do pull away permanently from the G5s, hopefully our conference affiliation will then include even more regional teams that have looked down on us for decades as potential conference mates, teams like UH, SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa. That could provide substantial saving on travel, as well as the added benefits of closer universities that can bring their fas to each other's place. A BOR and administration could be ready to really demand winning and better revenues from the athletic department, especially if the P5 tit finally runs dry and you have to get revenues in to fund your program. Basically, it is conceivable that the BOR and administration could reverse their position on athletics that has been in place forever here, even it is highly doubtful.

What I hope for is that Smaetresk will be the lightning rod here and stir the pot up to get this going and the BOR buys in. He then replaces the current AD, places a huge emphasis on winning, and lets Tony Benford know he has one year to make the NCAA or NIT or in another job, then tells Dan McCarney he has until 2016 to get back to .500, since th 2015 schedule he was given is ridiculously bad for a CUSA school of our size.

What I expect is that Smaetresk was told by the BOR to give lip service to athleics, but funding will never be above where we keep it, so anything like the above scenario would result in a firing/early retirement if it was "demanded" for in public. The truism of a leopard doesn't change its spots will probably continue to rear its ugly truth to the very few UNT fans that exist. It is correctable, but the cost would be substantially higher than we have ever given to athletics and would probably result in near-riots among the UNT Family, the 98% who absolutely loathe athletics or absolutely don't care about them at all.

I enjoyed your post and mostly agree with what you have said. I do wish people would quit sarcastically saying the "SMU game everyone demanded" or something similar. Frankly it's one of those things that make me want to be done with this bipolar forum. In the 22 years I have been a fan of the Mean Green there have been many prevalent themes among the fans. By far, the most unifying of all was SMU hate. It has stood the test of time as it was pulsing through our veins way before I got here. Until now. Until we signed a long term agreement with them for a yearly game. Much to my surprise we don't care so much about SMU anymore. Now we are "demanding" better out of conference opponents when we barely show up to watch us beat the cross town rival that has held us down for 50+ years.

I am in the camp that RV needs to go but the SMU series is a feather in his cap. I am thankful to him that we get an opportunity to kick their ass every year.

Harry · May 28, 2015

I enjoyed your post and mostly agree with what you have said. I do wish people would quit sarcastically saying the "SMU game everyone demanded" or something similar. Frankly it's one of those things that make me want to be done with this bipolar forum. In the 22 years I have been a fan of the Mean Green there have been many prevalent themes among the fans. By far, the most unifying of all was SMU hate. It has stood the test of time as it was pulsing through our veins way before I got here. Until now. Until we signed a long term agreement with them for a yearly game. Much to my surprise we don't care so much about SMU anymore. Now we are "demanding" better out of conference opponents when we barely show up to watch us beat the cross town rival that has held us down for 50+ years.
I am in the camp that RV needs to go but the SMU series is a feather in his cap. I am thankful to him that we get an opportunity to kick their ass every year.

Agree 100%. SMU series was a big win for the program.