MGB: Interesting report on C-USA football ticket sales

THOR · May 19, 2015

I've gotten 3-4 calls in the past month (usually during business hours so straight to VM) for renewing season tickets, Coach's Caravan, and joining MGC. Maybe they just really love me.

lucky! i didn't even get the caravan call this year...i guess i'm falling out of favor...

Brett Vito · May 19, 2015

MGB: Some follow-up thoughts on the gradual attendance climb on the fallacy of the magic bullet theory

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/05/some-thoughts-on-the-magic-bullet-theory-on-attendance.html/

BillySee58 · May 19, 2015

MGB: Some follow-up thoughts on the gradual attendance climb on the fallacy of the magic bullet theory

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/05/some-thoughts-on-the-magic-bullet-theory-on-attendance.html/

Remington?

GrandGreen · May 19, 2015

Only at NT, should progress be measured in terms of decades not years.

Ben Gooding · May 19, 2015

MGB: Some follow-up thoughts on the gradual attendance climb on the fallacy of the magic bullet theory

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/05/some-thoughts-on-the-magic-bullet-theory-on-attendance.html/

various "magic bullets".... No, not really. It's winning. People want to be around for the winning. Attendance and winning goes hand in hand in every sport at every level. That's the bottom line. Our attendance usually sucks because our team usually sucks. Kind of a theme. RV still bring employed is textbook insanity.

GRN-WHT · May 19, 2015

Winning isn't everything...ask Rice.

greenjoe · May 20, 2015

As a long time season ticket holder, I have been amazed for decades the attitude of some of our "fans." If the Athletic

dept doesn't call, do you fans just stay home ? I can't see the logic of punishing NT by not picking up the phone and ordering tickets. Especially when that sounds like what many of you want to do.

i'm sorry our recent NT alum is getting off on the wrong foot here.

GO MAN GREEN

Edited May 20, 2015 by greenjoe

Ben Gooding · May 20, 2015

Winning isn't everything...ask Rice.

This is the best answer, really? We are not Rice. Totally different dynamics in just about every way imaginable.

HoustonEagle · May 20, 2015

This is the best answer, really? We are not Rice. Totally different dynamics in just about every way imaginable.

The Rice number should embarrass us more than any of the other schools actually. They have less than 4000 undergraduates to our 36,000. What's more? Rice has less than 70,000 alumni living AND deceased. Which is less than the max seating capacity of their stadium interestingly enough. They have less than 17,000 alumni living in the Houston area currently. Without looking it up, I bet there are more UNT alumni in Houston than Rice. In DFW I believe there are over 300k UNT alumni.

We sold the same amount of season tickets.

Ben Gooding · May 20, 2015

Yeah, but don't forget to "ask Rice."

GRN-WHT · May 20, 2015

This is the best answer, really? We are not Rice. Totally different dynamics in just about every way imaginable.

I meant that more as in that we have many more problems than just W-L record. The decrease in ticket sales after the HOD win shows there are systematic dysfunctions in all facets of the RV administration.

More wins aren't going to magically improve our marketing and promotion efforts.

Ben Gooding · May 20, 2015

I meant that more as in that we have many more problems than just W-L record. The decrease in ticket sales after the HOD win shows there are systematic dysfunctions in all facets of the RV administration.

More wins aren't going to magically improve our marketing and promotion efforts.

This is all very true. So, why is RV still employed? Riddle me that. This man should've been sent kickin rocks immediately following the Dodge debacle. We are consistently losing, not making any noise in any conference race in any sport, playing in half empty stadiums/arenas, pitiful marketing strategies, little to no campus engagement, pitiful donor levels, season ticket holding numbers are laughable and the list goes on and on... So, again, what is being done about this aside from excuse making. The pro-RV folks will tell me that I should go make all of this happen. This man is making a quarter million dollars a year and people have the audacity to tell a fan to go make what this man should be doing happen. From any angle I look at this it's beyond disgraceful and in all reality astonishing that he is still the AD at UNT. Someone help me put stock in our AD, because I think I'm not seeing what some people are seeing.

UNTLifer · May 20, 2015

As a long time season ticket holder, I have been amazed for decades the attitude of some of our "fans." If the Athletic
dept doesn't call, do you fans just stay home ? I can't see the logic of punishing NT by not picking up the phone and ordering tickets. Especially when that sounds like what many of you want to do.
i'm sorry our recent NT alum is getting off on the wrong foot here.
GO MAN GREEN

I have reached out three times to fix my MGC donation and to discuss renewing my season tickets. The response? NOTHING. Sorry, but I live 5 hours away and the decision to purchase season tickets isn't easy when we play crappy teams and have one Thursday night game. How many times should I have to call? The last couple of years KRAM has stepped in and gotten things done...not his job but I appreciate his help. It is beyond ridiculous. I work with a Tech grad that is expecting her first child. Tech has already sent a gift and signed her up for some legacy program. That is how you build and keep fans, not waiting for them to call the school.

Harry, I appreciate all you do, but your defense of the AD is weak. There was no effort to increase sales after the HOD Bowl. Can't get a list of ticket buyers from Ticketmaster? How about setting up an information booth at the game? Pass out literature to attendees at the game, etc...

I might feel different if this was a one time occurrence but this has happened three years in a row! It is beyond ridiculous. McCarney might need to change his tune about the reasons why UNT is a tough sell. Maybe it is due to lack of effort by the department he works for. If I were him I would want answers from RV.

UNT15 · May 20, 2015

We need to pull a Baylor and hire our Ian McCaw, an AD who has a unique vision to build the department up and the tenacity to follow up. We need someone to come in who believes they are gonna turn this thing around. Baylor in 2003 vs Baylor in 2015...just wow

And for the record, RV makes $300,000/year + an annual retention bonus of $100,000 while Ian McCaw makes just a shade under $500,000. One of these programs is getting quite the deal, while the other is getting hoodwinked.

MeanGreenHoops · May 20, 2015

My "explanation" for the slow decline in numbers. I would bet that Apogee increased ticket sales quite a bit with many people jumping in for the first time. Since then things have generally been disappointing causing many people to slowly drop out.

forevereagle · May 20, 2015

Hasn't our average attendance been going up, or at least consistent, through these years? I know that season tickets are somewhat telling, but overall attendance seems to be doing ok. Not saying that this is encouraging news, but it also doesn't mean that we will be following UAB anytime soon.

Ben Gooding · May 20, 2015

I dunno, "ask Rice." Seems like a good enough excuse as any.

Army of Dad · May 20, 2015

Hasn't our average attendance been going up, or at least consistent, through these years? I know that season tickets are somewhat telling, but overall attendance seems to be doing ok. Not saying that this is encouraging news, but it also doesn't mean that we will be following UAB anytime soon.

Attendance counts are notoriously easy to fluff up *cough* SMU*cough* and can also reflect zero or very low revenue tickets. Season tickets are typically not given away so those seats really are purchased and are often included in official attendance even if the tickets went unused.

Basing support (and AD effectiveness) off of attendance isn't always a great metric, especially in light of the underwhelming (to be nice) Mean Green club and season ticket numbers.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Army of Dad

forevereagle · May 20, 2015

Attendance counts are notoriously easy to fluff up *cough* SMU*cough* and can also reflect zero or very low revenue tickets. Season tickets are typically not given away so those seats really are purchased and are often included in official attendance even if the tickets went unused.
Basing support (and AD effectiveness) off of attendance isn't always a great metric, especially in light of the underwhelming (to be nice) Mean Green club and season ticket numbers.

The tickets themselves may be lower revenue, but any person that comes into the stadium may buy merchandise and/or concessions. I am not saying that attendance numbers are infallible, but we are getting decent attendance. There is a need to convert gate purchasers to season ticket holders, but as was pointed out earlier, there is little incentive to buy season tickets when I can walk up and buy a good seat.

Harry · May 20, 2015

The tickets themselves may be lower revenue, but any person that comes into the stadium may buy merchandise and/or concessions. I am not saying that attendance numbers are infallible, but we are getting decent attendance. There is a need to convert gate purchasers to season ticket holders, but as was pointed out earlier, there is little incentive to buy season tickets when I can walk up and buy a good seat.

Season ticket holders are like purchasers of stock. They believe in the product and they see it becoming more successful over time. This allows them to put more of their hard earned dollars into it. As stated there has been no consistent winning over a long period of time here. I still believe in Coach Mac, but in 4 years he has had one winning season. I see season ticket sales as an indication of hope for the future. It shouldn't be like giving to a charity but even donations to a charity have expectations. As I have stated before it is not easy here, it's not a slam dunk. In simple terms it's the product. Once we start winning games consistently, I think you will see these numbers rise. I also believe it takes a commitment to building relationships in the community.

I think the frustration is finally, after long decades of neglect, the administration is supporting the programs more than at any point in our history. That portion of the equation is solved however winning and converting the masses of alumni we have who are detached remains a mystery.

Ben Gooding · May 20, 2015

Most programs in the country have room for people to walk up and buy seats. Even the majority of the blue bloods have people that just walk up and in a worst case scenario walk up and scalp tickets how be it far more expensive. The walk up excuse is a bad one. It is a practical admittance that this AD can't market to people to invest in the program and the product sure as hell isn't selling itself.

Good point, Harry. Other than this caravan what is the coaching staff and their players doing out in the community? I can't recall a time that the team was put out into the community for really anything.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ben Gooding

Cerebus · May 20, 2015

CHOKE ON YOUR LIES.

Sorry. Huge security incident I had to take care of at work. There is such as thing as bad publicity, let me tell you.

I am holding the numbers in my hands right now, I will do my best to post them tonight.

NTXCoog · May 20, 2015

Most programs in the country have room for people to walk up and buy seats. Even the majority of the blue bloods have people that just walk up and in a worst case scenario walk up and scalp tickets how be it far more expensive. The walk up excuse is a bad one. It is a practical admittance that this AD can't market to people to invest in the program and the product sure as hell isn't selling itself.

The issue is not walk up available for every game. The tipping point that starts triggering season ticket sales is when at least one game a season sells out. If you can buy decent seats every game at walk up, why not do that? But if there's one game that will sell out, you buy season tickets to make sure that you don't get shut out of that game.

But how do you get that sell out? Unfortunately it is probably a gradual process. Most likely you need that opponent that excites the fan base and/or brings in opponent fans. But how do you get that opponent to come to Apogee? You probably need to increase average attendance enough to make a decent financial offer to that opponent. You probably have to do a 2 for 1 or 3 for 1 initially. Then you have to sell that game out. Otherwise you don't get the season ticket bump and you can't schedule another bigger opponent because it doesn't make sense financially for UNT or prestige wise for the opponent.

But it all comes down to getting that sell out, whatever it takes. It's probably that big opponent, but it could be an awesome winning run, good marketing, or something else. But until that sell out happens, getting season ticket sales up is tough.

Cerebus · May 20, 2015

After the 2001 season the AD published the Game Plan For Success. This thirteen page booklet laid out the plans of the department to meet their mission, which included "Position(ing) the Mean Green to compete in the upper echelon of intercollegiate athletics and attract top athletes from the Metroplex...."

It went on to layout current MFG and FB season tickets numbers, and goals for each. All numbers from 2001 are taken from that booklet. The 2014 MGC numbers come from me hand counting the numbers off the AD website. The 2014 FB season ticket numbers come from the twitter link above.

Before we get into the details, here are the numbers:

Here are the header meanings:

2002 Actual: Number of MGC/FB Season ticket holders per Game Plan For Success (GPFS).

2004 Goal: Goal numbers set to be reached by GPFS.

2014 Actual: Number of MGC/FB Season ticket holders per AD Website/Twitter respectively.

Diff: How short we fell of the 2004 goal in 2014.

Avg Yearly Change: Average MGC/FB Season Ticket Holders added per year between 2002 and 2014 seasons.

YTG: Years to Goal, number of years with Avg Yearly Change to reach 2004 goals from current.

The year 2004 goals included:

*10,000 FB Season Ticket Holders.

*3,000 MGC members.

*40 MGC district directors.