MGB: Interesting report on C-USA football ticket sales

GrandGreen · May 19, 2015

Everyone knows you can buy walk up. There's no demand. No reason to get stuck with tickets when TV picks up a game and forces us to play at 11:00 am Ssturday. Thursday nights or Saturday at 2:00 or 7:00 or whatever the time is people complain about.

What team in the conference doesn't have walk up tickets? They may be limited at Marshall, but I would guess not that hard to come by. ODU has good demand and a very small stadium. I would guess there are plenty of tickets available at any Western Division member. Same goes for televised games, all CUSA members are on TV.

Edited May 19, 2015 by GrandGreen

greenit · May 19, 2015

At this point I don't really care if the AD sells an extra 5,000 tickets to people that never attend a game, but it is unacceptable to have less than 8-10k in season ticket sales based on the number of alumni.

GrandGreen · May 19, 2015

UNT can't expect big numbers in this department because the product is bad and people will find other stuff to do on a Saturday in DFW. Especially when they bring in juggernauts like Portland State. Half my buddies don't want to attend that pillow fight and I can't blame them a bit.
Add so few home games, one on a Thursday night, and a 1AA team for Homecoming and people aren't flocking to the games. Moreover, UNT is painful to watch. They gut me weekly every Fall year after year.

Season tickets are generally purchased before the season. So last year based on that premise, season tickets should have been up.

That Saturday in DFW doesn't make it for me either, like fans and potential fans of other schools don't have the same issue. The biggest competition for the sport dollars is not a night out on the town, or going to other sports events; it is the myriad of sports both college and pro available via tv or computer at every home from West Virginia to West Texas.

drex · May 19, 2015

Are you ready for this? A member of the ticket office team at NT told me that Ticketmaster would not share the data as to ticket sales through Ticketmaster to the Heart of Dallas Bowl. That could have been a huge list of new contacts for prospective season ticket holders. Sad, but apparently, true.

GRN-WHT · May 19, 2015

Are you ready for this? A member of the ticket office team at NT told me that Ticketmaster would not share the data as to ticket sales through Ticketmaster to the Heart of Dallas Bowl. That could have been a huge list of new contacts for prospective season ticket holders. Sad, but apparently, true.

Excuses.

Simple, when the BOR and those at the top don't give two craps about athletics, nobody can expect the general public to care.

HoustonEagle · May 19, 2015

Just a quick thought on this subject. Are we comparing apples to apples here? All UNT students get "free" admission to the games via the athletic fee charged to their tuition. This contrast with the discounted season tickets that many other schools offer students when they go to pay tuition. If many of the other CUSA schools take the latter approach then our numbers are not nearly as bad on a relative basis as they appear.

HoustonEagle · May 19, 2015

Nevermind. I did some searching and it appears the other CUSA schools distribute student tickets in a similar fashion to our method. We just really suck at selling season tickets.

UNTLifer · May 19, 2015

The numbers are poor because our ticket staff does not pick up the phone nor put forth the effort to sell. I had tickets last year and paid my MGC donation on a monthly draft. Nobody has called me to renew and they stopped the draft without even telling me. I called to ask why and Jessica said she would get back with me. Never did. I contacted her boss and was told this would be taken care of. It hasn't been. It is not the customer's job to track down the sales staff to make the sale. This has always been my experience. Until that changes and staff are held accountable, these numbers will always suffer...ALWAYS.

Edited May 19, 2015 by UNTLifer

filmerj · May 19, 2015

What team in the conference doesn't have walk up tickets? They may be limited at Marshall, but I would guess not that hard to come by. ODU has good demand and a very small stadium. I would guess there are plenty of tickets available at any Western Division member. Same goes for televised games, all CUSA members are on TV.

These numbers are based on season ticket sales not walk ups. people are upset at season ticket numbers. I'm not defending the poor numbers just stating the fact that they are season ticket numbers. If there was a demand, if people cared about NT sports in Denton, if alumni cared, there may be a reason to have higher season ticket sales numbers. Fact is there is no demand for season tickets when you know you can just walk up and by a $10 dollar ticket and sit wherever you want. Other schools are the only game in town, we are not. There are a myriad of reasons why we've always struggled and I don't think it can be limited to the ticket staff just doesn't care to sell you tickets, it may or may not be true, but it's not limited to that. Edited May 19, 2015 by filmerj

Harry · May 19, 2015

UNT has never had strong support in football. The key difference is now, unlike in the past, the Administration is supporting the endeavor in a reasonable manner. We have a fantastic new stadium and play in a more competitive conference, better coaching salaries etc. So the administration has stepped up their game. I think the student support/turnout is a positive as it appears to be growing but that is not reflected in this data. The sad fact is an almost decade (save 2013-14) of futility in the win loss column has not helped us build on the investment. The AD deserves some of the blame but it's not like we were selling out the stadium when this staff arrived.

To build on season ticket sales takes some type of product. We are not Marshall or UTSA who has no competition for the entertainment dollar. Let either have a 9-year run of losing and see what happens to their base of season ticket sales. The "Build it and they will come" concept sounds reasonable but it never works in practice, ask Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane etc...

What I refuse to hear is any blame assigned to the current fans who donate, buy season tickets etc. This is not their fault. The fans I know have done everything in their power to try and bring more potential fans into the stadium. They just have not had a consistently good product to sell.

In closing, I am disappointed but not surprised with numbers. We had a great opportunity to build the fanbase after the HOD Bowl win but we laid a huge egg in 2015. An opportunity we lost.

Just win.

TheWestie · May 19, 2015

You know what other number went down in this time frame?

The number of home games each season.

Arkstfan · May 19, 2015

Season ticket sales is a 246 day process. If you aren't working on it five days a week for 48 weeks (plus six home football Saturdays) you aren't going to be good at it.

2005 and 2006 AState goes 6-6 and season tickets jump 2,200 in 2007. Dipped 150 in 2008 after a 5-7 campaign but they went back to work, went up about 360 after another 6-6 campaign. Go UP 340 after a 4-7 campaign. Go UP 860 after another 4-7, go up 1,050 after 10-3, up 320 after 10-2, go up after 8-5.

It starts with the basics.

Working to get every local employer you can to do corporate tailgates and creating a super-friendly environment for the individuals tailgating. They are your host committee. Get potential fans on the grounds having a nice day whether or not you lay an egg on the field.

Convincing businesses in the area to put up signs of support. Drive down Red Wolf Boulevard or Caraway in Jonesboro and the majority of businesses have signs up supporting AState. TODAY. I'm in Jonesboro tonight and the business community is all in. It started as a football campaign, it is now 365 days a year. When we have recruits come in you think they make it out of town without the coaches mentioning all the signs and telling them to look at the other places they visit? Our chancellor told me Thursday it has helped recruiting faculty because they are amazed at the local show of support for the university.

It WAS NOT THAT WAY when I was in college and it wasn't that way 15 years ago. It was a long-term relationship building thing.

THEN we could worry about selling season tickets. You've got to build buzz and brand identity first. We sold AState as an affordable DAY with the family, not three hours, a day. Sure most people arrive around kickoff but our philosophy was you can have fun all day long for the price of a ticket.

Winning guarantees you nothing.

I remember when Tim Floyd was at UNO, they'd start the year struggling to get 1000 people in Lakefront Arena, then they would rack up win after win and the place would be near full in late February. Then next season attendance was right back at around 1000 people. They sold basketball games in a city that isn't that hoops crazy, they needed to sell something else.

That's the first step for UNT. Figure out what your "it" is that people will pay for and there is a football game as part of it. You cannot play name teams six times a year at home, you can't get six Texas teams on your home slate unless you form some sort of new conference. If those are your "it" then you are doing as well as you can. The "it" is not conference affiliation (12 of 14 CUSA schools saw season ticket sales decline).

The thing is, you have to construct your "it". MP3 players and smartphones were geek devices until Apple figured out how to make them "it" for the average consumer. People never knew they "needed" those devices until Apple explained why they needed them. Worst thing you can do is ask people not coming what they want, you have to create your "it" and show them why they want "it".

Until you get that figured out you don't have the foundation to sell season tickets.

Arkstfan · May 19, 2015

UNT has never had strong support in football. The key difference is now, unlike in the past, the Administration is supporting the endeavor in a reasonable manner. We have a fantastic new stadium and play in a more competitive conference, better coaching salaries etc. So the administration has stepped up their game. I think the student support/turnout is a positive as it appears to be growing but that is not reflected in this data. The sad fact is an almost decade (save 2013-14) of futility in the win loss column has not helped us build on the investment. The AD deserves some of the blame but it's not like we were selling out the stadium when this staff arrived.

To build on season ticket sales takes some type of product. We are not Marshall or UTSA who has no competition for the entertainment dollar. Let either have a 9-year run of losing and see what happens to their base of season ticket sales. The "Build it and they will come" concept sounds reasonable but it never works in practice, ask Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Tulane etc...

What I refuse to hear is any blame assigned to the current fans who donate, buy season tickets etc. This is not their fault. The fans I know have done everything in their power to try and bring more potential fans into the stadium. They just have not had a consistently good product to sell.

In closing, I am disappointed but not surprised with numbers. We had a great opportunity to build the fanbase after the HOD Bowl win but we laid a huge egg in 2015. An opportunity we lost.

Just win.

Losing sucks. USM lost 25% of their season ticket base by going 0-12, 1-11.

Build it and they will come is not a proven success story. Nearly every school that has moved to I-A/FBS the same year as UAB or later is below the "established" G5 level in budget subsidy and attendance with the schools starting from scratch generally faring worse.

http://arkansasstate.scout.com/story/1545609-it-s-not-easy-being-new?s=334

New facilities are fun for fans but there is a limited time when they can be new. You have to seize the interest to sell something else.

NM Green · May 19, 2015

Arky state is 100% correct. I have wanted real numbers and goals for this organization. It's the way the business world runs. I have wanted town halls and updates from the ad's desk like I get from unlv weekly. Set a goal and fall short but improve. I am flat out shocked some torchbearers are not more embarrassed by this. Have a plan work a plan and report real time updates. You do not want politicians who doublespeak with this stuff. I saw utsa business supporter signs in "all" kinds of bars in San Antonio last year. Makes me want to boil that we are not out there fighting for community and regional support every day. It is not a spring activity it is a four season activity. Season tickets show commitment and when you have slightly over 4000 you have very little commitment to this program. Smastrek cannot be happy with what is happening across the highway. Make a splash hire and get this bullet train built and moving. GMG

GreenMachine · May 19, 2015

And, remember, the economy has done nothnig but improve since our HoD Bowl win, so you cannot blame this drop on any macro-level economics.

We don't care about athletics here. Never have, never will. We like music and arts and cheap tuition.

At this point, though, I don't waht else can be done about it that the BOR will do.

yet music and art venues are mostly empty too. Guess it is more fun to drink beer, get disgustingly fat, and play video games?

THOR · May 19, 2015

i've had season tickets for about 8 years...i have yet to renew mine this year...i have received NO calls as to why or if i plan on doing it again for the upcoming season...

oldguystudent · May 19, 2015

i've had season tickets for about 8 years...i have yet to renew mine this year...i have received NO calls as to why or if i plan on doing it again for the upcoming season...

That is a serious problem. Additionally, it was like pulling teeth each time I tried to buy guest passes this past year. One criticism about the athletic department to which I will admit is that it is almost as if you're causing them a great bother when you try to give them money.

In fact, for my MGC donations and season ticket purchases, I tend to funnel those through a suite holder because it's been my experience that when I hand them checks directly those checks either lay around indefinitely uncashed until I ask why or they get allocated to something entirely different than I intended -- like here's my season ticket money -- gets allocated to my stadium gift and I get an email reminding me that my season ticket money is due.

Edited May 19, 2015 by oldguystudent

Arkstfan · May 19, 2015

Arky state is 100% correct. I have wanted real numbers and goals for this organization. It's the way the business world runs. I have wanted town halls and updates from the ad's desk like I get from unlv weekly. Set a goal and fall short but improve. I am flat out shocked some torchbearers are not more embarrassed by this. Have a plan work a plan and report real time updates. You do not want politicians who doublespeak with this stuff. I saw utsa business supporter signs in "all" kinds of bars in San Antonio last year. Makes me want to boil that we are not out there fighting for community and regional support every day. It is not a spring activity it is a four season activity. Season tickets show commitment and when you have slightly over 4000 you have very little commitment to this program. Smastrek cannot be happy with what is happening across the highway. Make a splash hire and get this bullet train built and moving. GMG

When we fired our prior AD a couple of reporters who sort of almost cover us were on Twitter asking why AState fired the guy who hired Gus Malzahn. I just tweeted them the link to an earlier story I had done on reporting booster club fund-raising over his decade at AState.

A friend shared a text exchange with our ticket sales guy. Friend wanted him to send material to his brother-in-law. Near immediate reply that he would take care of it. Within an hour a second text saying packet was in the mail. Friend says "He is a Hog ticket holder who complains about the drive and cost". Reply. "Thanks, I'll pay extra attention because I LOVE a challenge. I'm going to do my best to get him."

And yes it is common for a fan to have the cell number of at least one athletic staffer. You have an issue, they will give it to you and tell you to call any time you have a problem. I bitched out our AD because the bathrooms were locked immediately following a game. I sent the text in the stadium and within 30 minutes had a call from him wanting details.

MeanGreenHoops · May 19, 2015

Arkstfan is right. It's not a build it and they will come, or win and they will come, it's give me a reason to want to come and they will come.

Was up in Denton last week and noticed nothing related to the school. Since I didn't drive by campus, if i didn't know better I would think the college didn't exist.

People start doing things because other people are doing them. When there is essentially no visible support in town, no one wants to do it.

GrandGreen · May 19, 2015

I think a large part of NT's problem is just complacency within the AD department. A result of long term contracts, most employees being long entrenched in their jobs, and only moderate pressure from higher up.

Harry · May 19, 2015

I think a large part of NT's problem is just complacency within the AD department. A result of long term contracts, most employees being long entrenched in their jobs, and only moderate pressure from higher up.

That's fair but you also have to consider the demand side of things. We have had almost an entire decade of losing football. That is hard to offset. Mac has had one winning year out of 4. Dodge never had a winning season in 4. Dickey's boat sank in his final couple of years... can we just agree that this product may not be the easiest to sell. And yes I do believe winning is the key. People want to associate themselves with winning programs.

oldguystudent · May 19, 2015

That's fair but you also have to consider the demand side of things. We have had almost an entire decade of losing football. That is hard to offset. Mac has had one winning year out of 4. Dodge never had a winning season in 4. Dickey's boat sank in his final couple of years... can we just agree that this product may not be the easiest to sell. And yes I do believe winning is the key. People want to associate themselves with winning programs.

If I walk up to you with $1,100 in cash and try to hand it to you, are you going to pass me through five call transfers and treat me like I'm a bother to your more important existence? If I then say, "Hey, Harry! Next weekend I wanna bring a friend to this shindig! Can I please give you this $100 bill?" will you turn your back on me and walk away so that I have to physically drive to Denton and walk past the receptionist who tells me I can't be in the building so that I can line your pockets with cash?

This has been the ticket buying experience for me.

UNTcrazy727 · May 19, 2015

That's fair but you also have to consider the demand side of things. We have had almost an entire decade of losing football. That is hard to offset. Mac has had one winning year out of 4. Dodge never had a winning season in 4. Dickey's boat sank in his final couple of years... can we just agree that this product may not be the easiest to sell. And yes I do believe winning is the key. People want to associate themselves with winning programs.

I get what you're saying, but the fact we lost season ticket holders after our best season in a decade is unexplainable. Completely unacceptable.

Edited May 19, 2015 by UNTcrazy727

GRN-WHT · May 19, 2015

All these bad trends tie into each other and fall back on one person. There are no excuses for being last or near last in every measure compared to our CUSA and even our Sun Belt peers. W-L record, consistently last or near last, ticket sales consistently last or near last. All falls to RV. Bad coaching hires lead to bad teams. Bad teams lead to poor ticket sales, non-existent salesmanship leads to poor ticket sales. So on and so forth. This all falls back on RV and his complete inability to hire effective coaches and staff in his office. It has been this way for his entire 14 year run here. This trend will not be broken until the BOR decides they want to take this thing seriously and hire a forward thinking AD and staff. Time to rid Bonnie Brae of the lazy good ol' boys club.

Harry · May 19, 2015

I get what you're saying, but the fact we lost season ticket holders after our best season in a decade is unexplainable. Completely unacceptable.

I have a couple of thoughts on this. Obviously we started off 2014 with a huge egg against Texas which really dampened spirits.

Next I would submit to you, as pointed out by another poster, we did not take advantage of the fans who attended the Heart of Dallas Bowl. Somehow we were unable to get any info on these potential season ticket holders.

I don't think our home schedule helps either. We had two games at home against the Florida schools. Sorry but that is not an attractive ticket, especially when you couple it with Nichols state (yawn) and a thursday night affair with La. Tech which was televised. I'm sorry, that was not a very good home schedule. I would be a lot of fans said I will pick up a ticket for the SMU game on Ticketmaster and see how things play out.

Which brings up another subject. We have become whores to TV, which I get because it generates a lot of dough for the conference - but frankly you can pretty much watch every UNT game on TV or some type of video these days. That hasn't always been the case. if you think this, combined with HD technology on TV sets doesn't impact season ticket sales you are crazy. It's an issue

I am not saying that the AD could do a better job of trying to build season ticket sales in the community etc. I do think we need to be fair and look at all of the issues which are contributing to this disappointing number. It's more complex a problem to solve and the easy route is simply attributing it all to the AD.