Senior class comprehensive breakdown

BillySee58 · April 26, 2015

So we currently have 16 scholarship seniors on this roster, and here's a breakdown of how this senior class has been assembled.

Signed out of high school: 8

- Redshirt seniors (2011 class): 6 (A Orr, C Polk, M Thompson, M Smith, A Jimmerson, A Mcnulty)

- True seniors (2012 class): 2 (C Harris, J Marshall)

Transfers: 4

- JUCO transfers: 3 (C Loving, A Smith, M Dash)

- FBS transfer: 1 (A Wallace)

Former walkons: 4

- Transfers: 3 (K Buyers*, B Bean*, M Banogu)

- Walkon out of high school: 1 (J Lynn)

*transferred here as a walkon but from FBS school where they were on scholarship

Now here's the offense/defense breakdown.

Offense: 8

Andrew Mcnulty, Antoinne Jimmerson, Carlos Harris, Jarod Lynn, Marcus Smith, Chris Loving, Micah Thompson, Michael Banogu

Defense: 8

Chad Polk, Austin Orr, Blake Bean, Anthony Wallace, AJ Smith, Kenny Buyers, Jamal Marshall, Matthew Dash

Projected senior starters: 8-9 (Lynn is the first fullback but we usually list 3 receivers in our starting lineup)

Projected seniors in two-deep: 15

Returning full-time senior starters: 6 (Mcnulty, Jimmerson, M Smith, Harris, Polk, Buyers)

Returning multi-year senior starters: 2 (Harris, Buyers)

That's my breakdown. What are everyone's thoughts on this year's senior class? If we're going to turn things around it's going to have to start with these guys.

Edited April 26, 2015 by BillySee58

FirefightnRick · April 26, 2015

Is there anyone good enough on the D line to draw and beat a double team? If not I don't think we'll win more than 4 games. That's my thought.

Rick

Ben Gooding · April 26, 2015

My thought is that the excuse of being a "young" team will not be a valid excuse. "Young Team" should not cross Dan McCarneys tougne. If it does than the excuse flood gate has officially opened, again.

MeanGreenTexan · April 26, 2015

If Buyers is a captain again, and he probably will be, he's going to need to be more of a vocal leader, not just a 'lead by example' guy.

Mean Green 93-98 · April 26, 2015

Is there anyone good enough on the D line to draw and beat a double team?

We haven't had too many guys like that lately. Since Booger, the only one that comes to mind is Senior year Abbe.

MeanGreenTexan · April 26, 2015

We haven't had too many guys like that lately. Since Booger, the only one that comes to mind is Senior year Abbe.

Atkinson was pretty good at eating double-teams too. Not Booger good, but Abbe good.

Mean Green 93-98 · April 26, 2015

Atkinson was pretty good at eating double-teams too. Not Booger good, but Abbe good.

I don't remember Shavod having quite the ability to beat a double team and wreak havoc in the backfield that Abbe had. He was a good run-stuffer, though.

BillySee58 · April 26, 2015

If Buyers is a captain again, and he probably will be, he's going to need to be more of a vocal leader, not just a 'lead by example' guy.

You could argue he needs to be more of both. He didn't have as good a year when we were forced to lean on him, rather than allow him to lean on all-CUSA guys around him. Can he be an all-CUSA guy in his own right? That would be huge for this secondary breaking in 3 new starters.

Is there anyone good enough on the D line to draw and beat a double team? If not I don't think we'll win more than 4 games. That's my thought.
Rick

Depends what you mean by "beat" a double team. If your idea of beating a double team is getting past two 300+ lb D1 offensive linemen into the backfield then no, and yes that takes a Booger caliber DT. Actually beating a double team just requires the DT not allowing the o-linemen to combo up to the linebacker in time. Do we have someone who can do that? Maybe. We'll see, but the linebackers will have to be a lot better and quicker at reading the play than they were last year.

GMG24 · April 27, 2015

If Buyers is a captain again, and he probably will be, he's going to need to be more of a vocal leader, not just a 'lead by example' guy.

I'd prefer he lead by example and not continuously get beat by a deep post or crossing route when the QB goes away and that's your receivers only option....

GOMG2013 · April 27, 2015

I'd prefer he lead by example and not continuously get beat by a deep post or crossing route when the QB goes away and that's your receivers only option....

dbs are going to get beat from time to time. there are some things kenny b could improve on, but there were only 3 spots on that defense that performed at least average, or better...both corners and sam lb.

GMG24 · April 27, 2015

db's should never get beat DEEP, they have 1 job and that is no one behind you, now if someone catches in front makes a move and goes by fine, but to allow someone behind you is in excusable, and I coach secondary so I can say that.

You really think the corner spot was average last year?

EDIT: Did not realize it only said never get beat, it should have said deep

Edited April 27, 2015 by GMG24

Aldo · April 27, 2015

Not sure why Buyers has been getting a bad wrap. imo I saw Jones get legitimately beat on multiple occasions down the sideline or on deep crosses.

GOMG2013 · April 27, 2015

db's should never get beat, they have 1 job and that is no one behind you, now if someone catches in front makes a move and goes by fine, but to allow someone behind you is in excusable, and I coach secondary so I can say that.

You really think the corner spot was average last year?

are you serious? dbs get beat all the time on all levels unless you have a team full of darrell greens and deion sanders. even the rice db that is about to be drafted this week was beaten by carlos harris.

you also said that a db has one job, and that is to not let anyone behind you. in theory, that may be true, but its not reality. especially at UNT where the corners and safeties lead the team in tackles.

in an ideal situation, where the front 7 can stop the run, the dbs can concentrate on the pass. UNT has their dbs watching the run because of the front 7. even in 2013, the dbs had to play the run due to weaknesses and holes. as good as 2013 was, it was still a very slow defense and front 7.

i still cant get over the never get beat comment. the only way a coach can even have that expectation is coaching little league or sub varsity sports. our corners at least looked like they could hold their own on a D1 football field. at least average, and thats not saying a whole lot... if you feel bad about our corners, i cant imagine how you feel about the other areas.

FirefightnRick · April 27, 2015

Not sure why Buyers has been getting a bad wrap. imo I saw Jones get legitimately beat on multiple occasions down the sideline or on deep crosses.

Because he was asked to give more run support than the year before and cover longer due to poor D line play and our lack of ability to apply pressure on the QB. As long as the opponents' O line can have its way with our D front our secondary is going to suffer. That's what losing Abbe from one year to the next did.

Rick

GMG24 · April 27, 2015

Yes I am, they may be concerned with the run and making tackles, but there job is to not allow anything to get behind them. What is behind them if they get burned? The GOAL is to NEVER get beat deep, sure it may happen, but the amount of time he was burned last year along with Jones is RIDICULOUS.

D1, HS, Pro, MS, PeeWee. If your job is to do something and you don't do it, its not average, its far below. Everything about last year was below average to pathetic, thus the records reflection.

The DB should always be on the top side of the receiver so as to never get beat deep, that may be on a 5 yard hitch, or a 22 yard post. You are on their "top side" that way if they do catch it you can make a tackle and eliminate YAC. I understand that this will not happen every time, but the amount of times there was a receiver 4-5 yards behind one of our members of the secondary was ridiculous, particularly when we play 8 yards off. If you think thats average by all means keep thinking that, I am just telling you that it is completely ridiculous to call that effort last year AVERAGE.

Aldo,

I only said Buyers b/c he was a captain and a leader, but yes they both allowed entirely too many balls behind them. That is all. Carry on

GOMG2013 · April 27, 2015

Yes I am, they may be concerned with the run and making tackles, but there job is to not allow anything to get behind them. What is behind them if they get burned? The GOAL is to NEVER get beat deep, sure it may happen, but the amount of time he was burned last year along with Jones is RIDICULOUS.

D1, HS, Pro, MS, PeeWee. If your job is to do something and you don't do it, its not average, its far below. Everything about last year was below average to pathetic, thus the records reflection.

The DB should always be on the top side of the receiver so as to never get beat deep, that may be on a 5 yard hitch, or a 22 yard post. You are on their "top side" that way if they do catch it you can make a tackle and eliminate YAC. I understand that this will not happen every time, but the amount of times there was a receiver 4-5 yards behind one of our members of the secondary was ridiculous, particularly when we play 8 yards off. If you think thats average by all means keep thinking that, I am just telling you that it is completely ridiculous to call that effort last year AVERAGE.

Aldo,
I only said Buyers b/c he was a captain and a leader, but yes they both allowed entirely too many balls behind them. That is all. Carry on

our corners get beat on post patterns in one on one coverage. in a perfect world, there should be a safety there. maybe even two on a throw down the middle of the field. if the corner lines up on the inside, they can get a jump on that post pattern, but they are a step behind if they run an out to the sideline.

i agree that if you know you dont have safety help, you cant give that up.

i still give them at least average. a "C" 75%.

they did not get burned every game or even half the games. they were burned bad against UAB, Rice was bad, and Indiana. Rice and UAB has borderline NFL talent with Taylor and Nelson. Nelson clocked a 4.28 at the NFL combine.

and you are completely ignoring the job they do on the wr screens, rb screens, and the run game. you are only considering passing.

GMG24 · April 27, 2015

I am not ignoring that at all, as they should come up and make the tackles, and being 8 yards off starting in a shuffle shuffle run which they do, triggering on a quick pass and coming up does not affect them allowing guys to run right by them for TD's. Yes, the DL pressure was terrible, sure the QB had the ball a long time but it does not matter, just bc the DL doesn't do their job doesn't make it an excuse for the secondary to let people run by them. I don't buy that and never will, however, I do know it makes it very very tough, but get a coverage sack. Cover the receivers so well that the DL has forever to get there since that is what they need.

GOMG2013 · April 27, 2015

Because he was asked to give more run support than the year before and cover longer due to poor D line play and our lack of ability to apply pressure on the QB. As long as the opponents' O line can have its way with our D front our secondary is going to suffer. That's what losing Abbe from one year to the next did.
Rick

post patterns killed us in 2013 also. we line up 10 yards off the wr, so its hard to just flat out burn our corners running straight down the sideline.

if they were getting beat on double moves, then you could blame pressure on the QB. Our coverage and dbs played the same way in 2014 as in 2013. to stop the run. even with Orr and Abbe, our corners and safeties had to help out on the run.

pressure is an issue if you are going to have your corners manned up though. and you dont need a big ole DT to apply pressure. it would be nice if we had one, but theres this thing in football that is called a blitz when the front 4 cant get to the qb. lots of teams use it. UNT doesnt.

GOMG2013 · April 27, 2015

I am not ignoring that at all, as they should come up and make the tackles, and being 8 yards off starting in a shuffle shuffle run which they do, triggering on a quick pass and coming up does not affect them allowing guys to run right by them for TD's. Yes, the DL pressure was terrible, sure the QB had the ball a long time but it does not matter, just bc the DL doesn't do their job doesn't make it an excuse for the secondary to let people run by them. I don't buy that and never will, however, I do know it makes it very very tough, but get a coverage sack. Cover the receivers so well that the DL has forever to get there since that is what they need.

a coverage sack happens when you are in nickel or when you have the safeties helping out in coverage. hard to get a coverage sack, when your safeties are up in the box, and on top of that, they arent even blitzing.

in a lot of cases, when a corner is manned up, some type of pressure is applied and you are sending more than they can block. if your safeties arent back there, then what are they doing?

and lets not get into the lbs in coverage...

when we did go nickel, it was somewhat successful. but we were so terrified of the run beating us, we didnt go nickel enough.

GMG24 · April 27, 2015

coverage sack can happen in any package, may be more frequent in nickel but sounds good, keep making excuses. Bottom line is our corners were not good or even average. They were probably bottom 10-12 corners in all of our league if you were to rank them all out that isn't average.

GOMG2013 · April 27, 2015

Bottom line is our corners were not good or even average. They were probably bottom 10-12 corners in all of our league if you were to rank them all out that isn't average.

hmmm. the CUSA coaches seem to think differently. in 2014 James Jones was second team all conference. in 2013 Buyers was honorable mention.

so...in 2013 these corners were part of one of the best defenses in the conference, but then in 2014 they all of a sudden turn to trash? even though plenty of other variables played at a below average level...

i admit that i expected better play from this unit. they got beat a few times and were not aggressive, but i still felt like they gave us at least average play.

you must feel safety, wlb, mlb, DT and DE were not even D1 material then. they were much worse.

GMG24 · April 27, 2015

apples and oranges.

GMG24 · April 27, 2015

Bottom line is our corners were burned entirely too many times, sure the bottom 10-12 comment was unfair, but they were pretty piss poor most nights, each finished with 50 tackles or so, a few picks and I think jones had a few fumble recoveries, theres your 2nd team all c-usa numbers..

FirefightnRick · April 27, 2015

post patterns killed us in 2013 also. we line up 10 yards off the wr, so its hard to just flat out burn our corners running straight down the sideline.
if they were getting beat on double moves, then you could blame pressure on the QB. Our coverage and dbs played the same way in 2014 as in 2013. to stop the run. even with Orr and Abbe, our corners and safeties had to help out on the run.
pressure is an issue if you are going to have your corners manned up though. and you dont need a big ole DT to apply pressure. it would be nice if we had one, but theres this thing in football that is called a blitz when the front 4 cant get to the qb. lots of teams use it. UNT doesnt.

.

What changed from '13 to '14? What changed in which Kenny looked great in '13 and not so much in '14?

We lost 6 or 7 of our starting defensive front 8.

You can "if" and "but" the scenarios all you want but the lack of solid play by our front guys is the overall reason our secondary got toasted last year. And it stems from our recruiting and developement, or lack of.

Rick

Edited April 27, 2015 by FirefightnRick

GOMG2013 · April 27, 2015

Bottom line is our corners were burned entirely too many times, sure the bottom 10-12 comment was unfair, but they were pretty piss poor most nights, each finished with 50 tackles or so, a few picks and I think jones had a few fumble recoveries, theres your 2nd team all c-usa numbers..

they did their job based on the defense we are running though. we are a stop the run, bend dont break defense. uab, indiana, rice may be failing performances. there were still some games they were solid and didnt get beat at all.

i agree, they had a few below average games, but that doesnt make a whole season.

the defense we run requires our corners to be good tacklers. Hicks said on the video on the site that the #1 priority of a db is to stop the pass. it sounds good, and in most situations and teams, it would be the case. but when i look at skladany's defense, stopping the run is the main priority for every position.

kenny b might not touch the field for another team and in another system. but for what UNT wants, he did an average job.

the way our corners play is a lot different that most cases. i wish it was different, and i hope cosh changes it. all that will depend on the front 7 and if he decides to mix up the playcalling.