A Hypothetical

emmitt01 · April 26, 2015

Since it's the period between Spring and Fall, and we all know nothing of any importance will be discussed for 4 months, here's a hypothetical to ponder.

If the 2002 team played the 2013 season what would the final record be? For reference here is that 2002 roster:

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/north-texas-mean-green-team-roster?season=2002

UNT86 · April 26, 2015

The biggest differences between those teams were at QB and Special Teams.

Both could run the ball, but the 2013 team was far superior at QB and the Special Teams were a HUGE factor.

Each of those teams had superior defenses.

I would say that the 2002 team would have lost to Ball State maybe Rice too.

I say the 2002 team would have gone 7-6, with a bowl win.

emmitt01 · April 26, 2015

The biggest differences between those teams were at QB and Special Teams.

Both could run the ball, but the 2013 team was far superior at QB and the Special Teams were a HUGE factor.
Each of those teams had superior defenses.

I would say that the 2002 team would have lost to Ball State maybe Rice too.
I say the 2002 team would have gone 7-6, with a bowl win.

I'm not so sure the 2013 team was "far superior" at QB. I think the 2013 squad, like the 2002 team, leaned heavily on defense and the D erased a lt of offensive miscues.

UNT86 · April 26, 2015

Derek Thompson completed 64% for 2896 yards with 16 TD and 13 INT.

Andrew Smith completed 46% for 1206 yards with 7 TD and 9 INT.

I would call that "far superior".

greenminer · April 26, 2015

2002 would not have blown it against UTSA or Tulane.

Ohio would be a tossup.

Dickey's staff would not have kept it so close at Georgia.

Other than that, I think it's about the same.

greenminer · April 26, 2015

Derek Thompson completed 64% for 2896 yards with 16 TD and 13 INT.

Andrew Smith completed 46% for 1206 yards with 7 TD and 9 INT.

I would call that "far superior".

It's not a debate really worth trying your hand at. The dynamics between the two (game planning, offensive system, available weapons) are so different. I think both of them fit their roles pretty equally. Take all of those dynamics away and, personally, I think Smith would be a much bigger offensive threat.

MeanGreen13 · April 26, 2015

this got me thinking: imagine if we had the type of depth at receiver in 2013 that we have now.... wow! I think that DT was ready to have a monster season but once other teams figured out to cover Brelan, everything got bogged down. DT with this receiving corps (and BC3) would probably be outstanding... anyway, i never thought I would reminisce over DT but I think he figured it out his senior year. I pray that mini has an even more fantastic improvement so the stable of play makers on offense can finally be an advantage!

FirefightnRick · April 26, 2015

The '02 team was far more superior than the '13 team. No question about it.

The '02 team didn't pass the ball and for good reason. They had a top 10 defense. After the first game of the season it was forced to start a backup freshman QB, and it's running game was as dominant as any team we have ever had. The '02 team didn't want to pass the ball and it didn't have to as it won a conference championship enroute to a 9 win season while simply asking the QB to hand off and control the game and not turn it over.

The '02 team beat C-USA Co-Champion Cincinatti in their bowl game, not a weak Mountain West UNLV team that barely qualified for a bowl game. Earlier in that '02 season Cincinatti came within a few minutes of beating the eventual National Champion Ohio State.

It's not even close for me.

Rick

emmitt01 · April 26, 2015

A hypothetical: if there is no high speed chase in Houston this week, does a young lady lose her life? Sorry, but I have been ignored in the pie buffet and I would like answers.

Admins...can we put this where it belongs (do we have a purgatory board)?

CaribbeanGreen · April 26, 2015

The '02 team was far more superior than the '13 team. No question about it.
The '02 team didn't pass the ball and for good reason. They had a top 10 defense. After the first game of the season it was forced to start a backup freshman QB, and it's running game was as dominant as any team we have ever had. The '02 team didn't want to pass the ball and it didn't have to as it won a conference championship enroute to a 9 win season while simply asking the QB to hand off and control the game and not turn it over.
The '02 team beat C-USA Co-Champion Cincinatti in their bowl game, not a weak Mountain West UNLV team that barely qualified for a bowl game. Earlier in that '02 season Cincinatti came within a few minutes of beating the eventual National Champion Ohio State.
It's not even close for me.
Rick

I actually agree with almost all of this. We had those passing numbers in '02 because we didn't need anything else. That team - and those immediately before and after it - could run the ball as well as any teams in NT history. Better, probably. And that defense was just brutal and nationally ranked. That team slowly choked the life out of opponents and just flat out did not get beat by inferior or equal competition.

The bowl win was far more impressive as well. Nothing against 2013, nothing at all... but that's a double digit game to me.

cwb · April 26, 2015

Admins...can we put this where it belongs (do we have a purgatory board)?

Got rid of it. Sorry,been a little grumpy.

As for this hypothetical, I would put the line 02 minus 1.

DallasGreen · April 26, 2015

I will always remember he 2002 team's loss to TCU in Ft. Worth. The defense constantly gave the offense terrific field position and the offense would proceed to go three and out. You can't tell me that a senior laden 2013 team would not have capitalized on some of those opportunities. The bowl game was great, but Cincy did not want to be there and never really got untraced. They may have brought the smallest contingent in the history of the New Orleans Bowl!

FirefightnRick · April 26, 2015

I will always remember he 2002 team's loss to TCU in Ft. Worth. The defense constantly gave the offense terrific field position and the offense would proceed to go three and out. You can't tell me that a senior laden 2013 team would not have capitalized on some of those opportunities. The bowl game was great, but Cincy did not want to be there and never really got untraced. They may have brought the smallest contingent in the history of the New Orleans Bowl!

And without the play of LB Cody Spencer who had his elbow dislocated the week before at Alabama.

By the way, that TCU team we lost by 6 points to was pretty damn good. They finished that season 10-2. Their two losses,....East Carolina and Cincinnati.

Rick

Edited April 26, 2015 by FirefightnRick

MeanGreenTexan · April 26, 2015

Y'all are under-estimating Galbreath with Patty coming in to spell him, behind an O-line that was nastier than 2013's. The 2013 defense would be in for a long, long day. And, as much as I love Cyril, I don't think he and Kirby could handle Booger all day.

The only thing that would keep 2013 in the game would be if Baz or Kad were dumb enough to kick the ball to Brelan.

But, count on that '13 defense to win the turnover battle, and likely score, or set up a score.

Give me '02 with a mind-numbing 20-10 win.

**EDIT: Sorry Emmitt, I just re-read the question... I'll say the '02 team would not have lost in C-USA play, the OOC would likely have been the same, and UNLV's @$$-whiping in the HoD bowl would have been more severe. So give me 11-2. (of course, they would have had to play Marshall in the C-USA championship game & I don't know if they would win that one)

Edited April 26, 2015 by MeanGreenTexan

FirefightnRick · April 26, 2015

(of course, they would have had to play Marshall in the C-USA championship game & I don't know if they would win that one)

Rice beat them by 17 in the C-USA Championship, and the '13 NT team beat Rice,...so......

Rick

SilverEagle · April 27, 2015

If the 2002 team had been led by a healthy Scott Hall, then no doubt they would have been much better. Both teams relied on the defense to save their bacon in a lot of their games, but the 2013 team relied on the defense/special teams more.

Just off the top of my head, we were offensively going pretty much nowhere in the Ball St, La. Tech and the bowl game when the defense and/or special teams made several plays to get us back in the game.

In addition to the defense, the 02 OL pretty much put a beat down on our Sunbelt opponents and they all pretty much gave up in the fourth quarter. I'm not sure the 02 OL could have put the same beat down on our 2013 CUSA opponents. That's where a healthy Scott Hall would have made the difference.

Rudy · April 27, 2015

How about a combined 2002 and 2013 All Star team vs the 1984 Chicago Ditkas?

meangreendork · April 27, 2015

If the 2002 team had been led by a healthy Scott Hall, then no doubt they would have been much better. Both teams relied on the defense to save their bacon in a lot of their games, but the 2013 team relied on the defense/special teams more.

Just off the top of my head, we were offensively going pretty much nowhere in the Ball St, La. Tech and the bowl game when the defense and/or special teams made several plays to get us back in the game.

In addition to the defense, the 02 OL pretty much put a beat down on our Sunbelt opponents and they all pretty much gave up in the fourth quarter. I'm not sure the 02 OL could have put the same beat down on our 2013 CUSA opponents. That's where a healthy Scott Hall would have made the difference.

Is this where we look at the opponent W/L record for 2002 and 2013 and the overall SOS for both seasons? I'm pretty sure that would answer the 2002 vs 2013 question pretty handily.

GrandGreen · April 28, 2015

I will always remember he 2002 team's loss to TCU in Ft. Worth. The defense constantly gave the offense terrific field position and the offense would proceed to go three and out. You can't tell me that a senior laden 2013 team would not have capitalized on some of those opportunities. The bowl game was great, but Cincy did not want to be there and never really got untraced. They may have brought the smallest contingent in the history of the New Orleans Bowl!

I am not buying the victory was only because of Cincinnati indifference. The Cincy crowd was dismal, but largely because it was opposite some big Cincinnati basketball games plus the game was scheduled late leaving Cincy fans very little time to make travel arrangements.

Yes, the 2013 team might have scored more in the "throw the ball TCU game", but TCU also may have scored a lot more on that team's defense.

SilverEagle · April 29, 2015

I am not buying the victory was only because of Cincinnati indifference. The Cincy crowd was dismal, but largely because it was opposite some big Cincinnati basketball games plus the game was scheduled late leaving Cincy fans very little time to make travel arrangements.
Yes, the 2013 team might have scored more in the "throw the ball TCU game", but TCU also may have scored a lot more on that team's defense.

It was due in large part to the large number of turnovers that Cincy made.

FirefightnRick · April 29, 2015

It was due in large part to the large number of turnovers that The Mean Green defense created.

FIFY

RICK

Greendylan · April 29, 2015

That Gino Guidugli for Cincinnati was the real deal. I actually ran into his mom the night before the game and had a nice chat. Believe me, Cincinnati wanted to win.

untjim1995 · May 1, 2015

I thought the '03 team was the best one we fielded since Fry was here, even better than '02 and '13. But the '02 and '13 teams were both very similar. I just think '03s team would beat both of them--probably very easily, too.

FirefightnRick · May 1, 2015

I thought the '03 team was the best one we fielded since Fry was here, even better than '02 and '13. But the '02 and '13 teams were both very similar. I just think '03s team would beat both of them--probably very easily, too.

Good point.

Rick