Football's Value to a University

Ben Gooding · March 25, 2015

Good post, Harry. So what is it going to take to get our own administration to fully commit to this thing? P

MeanGreenWithEnvy · March 25, 2015

I feel confident that President Smatresk will get around to Athletics. He's had bigger fish to fry, but he's getting things done.

MeanMag · March 26, 2015

I agree with Cerebus and Harry.

You guys must have chosen the wrong major. There are major opportunities for engagement with very connected alums and faculty.

My sister is a current student at UNT and has many friends at UTA. She was actually thinking about transferring because UTA is VERY close to her work, which she enjoys very much. The one thing she said she could not give up was the football. I was there for the conversation when she mentioned this to her friends at UTA, and their reponse was, "Yeah, UNT has a much better student and community atmosphere and Pride about than UTA." "The students seem more engaged and connected."

If football and/or basketball combined can give students a good year to care about every 2-3 years, then they are doing their job. I certainly would not have had such a good time if I did not take trips to New Orleans and Oklahoma City and Hot Springs.

Even a little bit of success matters.

KRAM1 · March 26, 2015

I would actively discourage any hypothetical kids I have from going to UNT. Don't get me wrong, I loved my time there and Denton is a great town.

That said, the level of apathy at the school is not limited to the athletic programs, it exists at every level. Students are apathetic about going there, faculty is apathetic about being there, Denton is apathetic about the school existing, etc.

I like UNT. I'll probably always cheer for football and basketball no matter how bad they get. I do think I had a decent education. Things need to seriously change with the administration, though. Maybe the new Union will jar something loose.

You are dead wrong. When did you graduate? There has never been a better time than now to be associated with UNT. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are dead wrong. The apathy you talk about on campus has disappeared except for those who are going to be negative no matter what. Upgrades are being made everywhere you look in facilities and in professors and in research and in administrators. I give you our new President as the best example I can give...Our President is not a "placeholder", he is a dynamo and is making significant...very significant changes across the University. I sit on the search committee currently looking for our next VP for Advancemnent (arguably the second most important position at the University for the future of UNT), and the excitement from the committee members is amazing...we have a Dean, two tenured professors, our AD, the VP for Research, a student representative, two large individual donors, a member of the UNT Foundation Board and me...representing donors and UNT Alumni through my Alumni Board membership. The people applying for the position hold the position at PAC12, SEC, etc. Universities and cannot wait to be selected so they can come to UNT. Each talks of the excitement surrounding UNT on the national level...national level folks.

You speak of change in the administration..,well, I guess you haven't been paying very close attention because that change you speak of has already been happening. UNT has more Fulbright Scholars than any other Texas University, so I question your comment about professors who do not want to be "there". I interact with many UNT professors on campus and off and each one is super engaged. In addition, our professors are getting younger...you can't just fire a tenured professor, so this takes some time, but do some research and check out the new professor hires over the last 2-3 years across the disciplines. You will be very positively impressed.

So, discourage your kids all you want. That is every parents right, but try to take your blinders off regarding the current state of affairs and future tract UNT is on before you do. Because right now, your just dead wrong about YOUR University, and your comment reflects very little current knowledge or understanding. That is too bad and is one of the challenges UNT faces. Even its own alumni are ignorant about what is going on...and that is on UNT as much as it is the Alumni. UNT does not "toot it's own horn" nearly enough. Oh, know who understands that and is out to do something about it? Yep, that new Prez who is currently making change after change to bring UNT into a prominent position within the state and nation. That guy will not allow UNT to take a back seat to anyone. You can take that to the bank.

Edited March 26, 2015 by KRAM1

UNT90 · March 26, 2015

I hope you are right, Mark, and I hope he finally applies those standards and changes to athletics department.

KRAM1 · March 26, 2015

I hope you are right, Mark, and I hope he finally applies those standards and changes to athletics department.

He might even apply it to a few fans! :-)

UNT90 · March 26, 2015

He might even apply it to a few fans! :-)

If that means finally selling out the club level, I'm all for it.

FirefightnRick · March 26, 2015

Other excellent programs I know we do have.

Counseling/Play Therapy(a team from NT was sent to NYC to support post 9-11 child play therapy efforts)

Computer Science

Emergency Management

Accounting

And my favorite...Minor in Female Anatomy.

I made that last one up of course, but it could happen.

Rick

Harry · March 26, 2015

I want to thank Mean Green 93-98 for starting this thread. It got me thinking --- we really need an "Academic" section on this site... a place where prospective students could find out more about entrance requirements and programs... our alums could provide their insight from the field so to speak. Maybe even try to get an academic counselor from UNT to join in the discussions. I will put some more thought to this, but I think it has some real potential. More to come on this. Good stuff! GMG

Ryan Munthe · March 26, 2015

I want to thank Mean Green 93-98 for starting this thread. It got me thinking --- we really need an "Academic" section on this site... a place where prospective students could find out more about entrance requirements and programs... our alums could provide their insight from the field so to speak. Maybe even try to get an academic counselor from UNT to join in the discussions. I will put some more thought to this, but I think it has some real potential. More to come on this. Good stuff! GMG

I was an undergrad, about to grad with a master's, and I work I academic advising. If you need content, let me know.

HoustonEagle · March 26, 2015

US NEWS has done a great disservice to higher education.

Harry · March 26, 2015

I was an undergrad, about to grad with a master's, and I work I academic advising. If you need content, let me know.

Thank you very much RM!

GreenMachine · March 26, 2015

You are dead wrong. When did you graduate? There has never been a better time than now to be associated with UNT. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are dead wrong. The apathy you talk about on campus has disappeared except for those who are going to be negative no matter what. Upgrades are being made everywhere you look in facilities and in professors and in research and in administrators. I give you our new President as the best example I can give...Our President is not a "placeholder", he is a dynamo and is making significant...very significant changes across the University. I sit on the search committee currently looking for our next VP for Advancemnent (arguably the second most important position at the University for the future of UNT), and the excitement from the committee members is amazing...we have a Dean, two tenured professors, our AD, the VP for Research, a student representative, two large individual donors, a member of the UNT Foundation Board and me...representing donors and UNT Alumni through my Alumni Board membership. The people applying for the position hold the position at PAC12, SEC, etc. Universities and cannot wait to be selected so they can come to UNT. Each talks of the excitement surrounding UNT on the national level...national level folks.
You speak of change in the administration..,well, I guess you haven't been paying very close attention because that change you speak of has already been happening. UNT has more Fulbright Scholars than any other Texas University, so I question your comment about professors who do not want to be "there". I interact with many UNT professors on campus and off and each one is super engaged. In addition, our professors are getting younger...you can't just fire a tenured professor, so this takes some time, but do some research and check out the new professor hires over the last 2-3 years across the disciplines. You will be very positively impressed.
So, discourage your kids all you want. That is every parents right, but try to take your blinders off regarding the current state of affairs and future tract UNT is on before you do. Because right now, your just dead wrong about YOUR University, and your comment reflects very little current knowledge or understanding. That is too bad and is one of the challenges UNT faces. Even its own alumni are ignorant about what is going on...and that is on UNT as much as it is the Alumni. UNT does not "toot it's own horn" nearly enough. Oh, know who understands that and is out to do something about it? Yep, that new Prez who is currently making change after change to bring UNT into a prominent position within the state and nation. That guy will not allow UNT to take a back seat to anyone. You can take that to the bank.

If someone feels a certain way, an opinion, how can somebody else tell them their opinion is wrong? No matter how good or poor our academics are, one thing is certain, we have some of the goofiest alum in the nation.

Ben Gooding · March 26, 2015

I have thought that people from or on this site could possibly set up a "prepare for life" seminar or mini classes to student-athletes and even non athletes to prepare them for job interviews, resumes, general etiquette pending the environment, etc. I guess just to give us an opportunity to help them and show them that they weren't just bodies to fill a roster and that there is a support system and a backbone to UNT... I would assume that the school already has something set up like this or I at least hope they do, but if they do not this would be something to consider...Call me crazy?

GreenMachine · March 26, 2015

I have thought that people from or on this site could possibly set up a "prepare for life" seminar or mini classes to student-athletes and even non athletes to prepare them for job interviews, resumes, general etiquette pending the environment, etc. I guess just to give us an opportunity to help them and show them that they weren't just bodies to fill a roster and that there is a support system and a backbone to UNT... I would assume that the school already has something set up like this or I at least hope they do, but if they do not this would be something to consider...Call me crazy?

I believe there is an organization on campus that does that exact thing for all students, they just have to make the effort and use the service.

Ben Gooding · March 26, 2015

Yo, sometimes opinions suck. True, people are entitled to their own opinion...doesn't mean that they aren't going to suck. And isn't your remark to KRAM the exact same thing KRAM did to ColoradoEagle? I'm confused. Either way, people, quit bashing your own (UNT). Same goals here for everyone.

I figured there was some kind of program...problem with that program is that I am assuming there is one and you are believing there is one. Typical 21 yr old student is going to have no actual idea if there is one...that's a problem in its own right.

North Texas...being horrible at marketing since 1890.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Ben Gooding

risinggreen · March 26, 2015

Other excellent programs I know we do have.
Counseling/Play Therapy(a team from NT was sent to NYC to support post 9-11 child play therapy efforts)
Computer Science
Emergency Management
Accounting
And my favorite...Minor in Female Anatomy.
I made that last one up of course, but it could happen.
Rick

Since we're talking academics, I'm curious about how some of our more recent graduates perceive our business school. I remember back in the 80's and well into the 90's (and even before), that our accounting program was routinely ranked as one of the top ten programs in the country, and I'm not hearing or feeling that quite so much these days.

Even our business school overall seemed to be "up and coming," and other than our new building, I'm just not seeing us separating ourselves from the pack or even catching up to some of those who may have slipped past us over the past couple of decades. If that's true, what the freak is wrong?

Business is where the money's at for donations and such, and we plain and simply should be doing a better job of marketing and improving our business school programs and image in a big way. It's apparent that just bricks and mortar ain't where it's at here at The University of North Texas.

oldguystudent · March 26, 2015

I'm curious about how some of our more recent graduates perceive our business school.

From the accounting perspective, the education, compared to UT, A&M, Tech, is top notch, if not better. Our graduates don't have much trouble at all getting work well in advance of graduation.

That said, UT has streamlined its program to be a true 5-year program that specifically prepares its graduates for a career in public accounting while UNT is sticking to the Master of Science thing that really is only 5 years in theory.

Bottom line, if you get through UNT's accounting program, you're gonna get hired, and you're gonna be regarded equally with your UT, A&M and Tech coworkers, but you're probably going to spend more time and money to get to the same entry level position.

(Most of this paraphrased from my intern who is a super bright kid, combined with my own experiences in the graduate program)

forevereagle · March 26, 2015

Either way, people, quit bashing your own (UNT). Same goals here for everyone.

North Texas...being horrible at marketing since 1890.

Awesome.

Harry · March 26, 2015

Since we're talking academics, I'm curious about how some of our more recent graduates perceive our business school. I remember back in the 80's and well into the 90's (and even before), that our accounting program was routinely ranked as one of the top ten programs in the country, and I'm not hearing or feeling that quite so much these days.

Even our business school overall seemed to be "up and coming," and other than our new building, I'm just not seeing us separating ourselves from the pack or even catching up to some of those who may have slipped past us over the past couple of decades. If that's true, what the freak is wrong?

Business is where the money's at for donations and such, and we plain and simply should be doing a better job of marketing and improving our business school programs and image in a big way. It's apparent that just bricks and mortar ain't where it's at here at The University of North Texas.

Let me give you an example from time and I graduated back in 1990. My marketing professor was Jeff Sager. Some of you may remember him, bald, very fit (I think he was a jogger) young looking guy who held a PhD from Texas A&M I believe. Outstanding teacher, extremely intelligent, engaging and made it fun to learn! Just a really nice guy. He basically told us that he flew back an forth to teach the SAME exact class at Texas A&M so there was no difference between the two in terms of either the teacher or the materials required for testing and quizzes etc... I was a marketing major and so I know this probably doesn't apply to every other major. Secondly, because of UNT's proximity to DFW I was able to intern in Dallas at a very successful company who had partnered with UNT. So for me it worked very well. I had another great story with my business calculus professor whose first name was Jody, his last name I am forgetting. Basically, he would set up a voluntary work study session for us to go over problems which helped us tremendously to get through the class with a good grade. He didn't have to do this and it made a huge difference to me and others.

In terms of perception, I will guarantee you there are a ton of UNT grads out there who are very successful in the business scene in DFW and Texas. Accounting has always been strong and actually my roommate was BCIS and had a ton of offers even before he graduated.

I am no expert on the rankings, but I do know this -- internships may be just as or more important as they give you a chance to really show what you can do versus a piece of paper. UNT is in a terrific spot for internships due to it's proximity to DFW and the many large companies which are headquartered here. gmg

oldguystudent · March 26, 2015

To Harry's point, compared to the other "Public Ivy" joint I went to, the professors at UNT are extraordinarily hands on with their students. In my first trip through college, I never actually met or spoke to about 50-60% of my professors. We went through TAs and only TAs.

A very unspoken thing about the big flagship schools is that the faculty there are generally interested in research and publishing. Those pesky students and classes are a nuisance.

Cerebus · March 26, 2015

A very unspoken thing about the big flagship schools is that the faculty there are generally interested in research and publishing. Those pesky students and classes are a nuisance.

There are some of those at UNT too. A program HAS to have some faculty out there researching an publishing good work or you 1) don't attract top notch grad students, and 2) don't get research cash money. UNT has really ramped this aspect up.

At the same time, there has to be some faculty focused on teaching, or else the undergrad experience suffers. A successful department has a mix of both.

UNT90 · March 26, 2015

To Harry's point, compared to the other "Public Ivy" joint I went to, the professors at UNT are extraordinarily hands on with their students. In my first trip through college, I never actually met or spoke to about 50-60% of my professors. We went through TAs and only TAs.

A very unspoken thing about the big flagship schools is that the faculty there are generally interested in research and publishing. Those pesky students and classes are a nuisance.

That's what ALL schools

oldguystudent · March 26, 2015

That's what ALL schools

Big difference between UNT and other places. HUGE.

FirefightnRick · March 27, 2015

Let me give you an example from time and I graduated back in 1990. My marketing professor was Jeff Sager. Some of you may remember him, bald, very fit (I think he was a jogger) young looking guy who held a PhD from Texas A&M I believe. Outstanding teacher, extremely intelligent, engaging and made it fun to learn! Just a really nice guy. He basically told us that he flew back an forth to teach the SAME exact class at Texas A&M so there was no difference between the two in terms of either the teacher or the materials required for testing and quizzes etc... I was a marketing major and so I know this probably doesn't apply to every other major. Secondly, because of UNT's proximity to DFW I was able to intern in Dallas at a very successful company who had partnered with UNT. So for me it worked very well. I had another great story with my business calculus professor whose first name was Jody, his last name I am forgetting. Basically, he would set up a voluntary work study session for us to go over problems which helped us tremendously to get through the class with a good grade. He didn't have to do this and it made a huge difference to me and others.

In terms of perception, I will guarantee you there are a ton of UNT grads out there who are very successful in the business scene in DFW and Texas. Accounting has always been strong and actually my roommate was BCIS and had a ton of offers even before he graduated.

I am no expert on the rankings, but I do know this -- internships may be just as or more important as they give you a chance to really show what you can do versus a piece of paper. UNT is in a terrific spot for internships due to it's proximity to DFW and the many large companies which are headquartered here. gmg

I had Sager. He became head of the Marketing Dept at one point I believe.

But what was most amazing about the class I had with him was there were three girls in that one class that competed in the Miss Texas pageant that year.

Hard to concentrate in that one for sure.

Rick