College AD business model

UNTLifer · March 16, 2015

My "pre-RV" model would include every year until his arrival. Denton knew what was on the line during the Fry years with his stated goal of getting North Texas in to the SWC. Did they show up then? Nope. Did they show up to that game at the end of the, I believe 1977, season when the Liberty Bowl officials were in attendance? A game that, if attended well, could have led to our invitation to the Liberty Bowl? Nope. What happened next? Fry heads to Iowa and NT to the toilet.

meanrob · March 16, 2015

I don't know about WKU's formula, but in order for us to follow Boise State's, we'd have to start with getting the city of Denton to get on board. I believe that Boise Idaho really loves their University..........

You can't compare Boise with Denton. In any catagory (population, demographics, income, employment....etc) they are completely different.

You can add coaching hires to that list too.

The solutions to UNTs problems have to come from within the university, athletic department and administration. Not the city of Denton or other outside forces.

This thing needs to be completely rethought and reworked. And no we don't need to waste money on Gene Stallings to do it.

Mean Green 93-98 · March 16, 2015

Its why UTSA has such a gigantic advantage over us--they are being sold as San Antonio's hometown and have their local media on board with helping them out.

UTSA also has no competition. DFW has two other FBS teams, both higher on the totem pole than us. DFW has an NFL team. As sad as it may sound, the best football that anyone is going to see in greater San Antonio is UTSA. We just can't say that in our area.

Also, if we are looking for Denton to claim us as their hometown team in a comparable way to what S.A. has done with UTSA, remember that Denton is less than 1/10th the population. If SA gets 10,000 local residents to attend their games and UNT gets 800, we are actually receiving comparable support, with regards to percentage of the population.

As Army of Dad mentioned above, our (potential) strength is our alumni base. We saw of glimpse of that at the HOD Bowl. That showed that we have people ready to jump aboard when we're for real. Unfortunately, we laid a huge turd on the field last season. But if we can get a coach who can recruit talent and coach it up (something that's never happened in my time following UNT), we can tap into that potential.

meanrob · March 16, 2015

My "pre-RV" model would include every year until his arrival. Denton knew what was on the line during the Fry years with his stated goal of getting North Texas in to the SWC. Did they show up then? Nope. Did they show up to that game at the end of the, I believe 1977, season when the Liberty Bowl officials were in attendance? A game that, if attended well, could have led to our invitation to the Liberty Bowl? Nope. What happened next? Fry heads to Iowa and NT to the toilet.

Yeah let's keep rehashing events of 38 years ago.

Might as well say you're ok with the direction of the football program because we beat Tennessee.

meanrob · March 16, 2015

If it were up to me I'd say forget attendance, forget marketing, forget everything and spend every available penny on coaches and recruiting budgets.

Who gives a crap about a billboard on I-35 when we can't get a quarterback or keep (or in this case, get rid of) coaches.

RV doesn't need to go because he's doing a bad job. RV needs to go because he's doing the wrong kind of job for what UNT needs.

UNT90 · March 16, 2015

What you're saying is correct, but no exclusive to any one team. Put ANY team out west in the Pac12 you will see them rise to Pac12 levels in everything including stadium/arena capacity, donating, attendance, increase in applications and attendance. Same can be said with the Big10, ACC, Big12 and the SEC. It's affiliation. It's materialistic. That's the world we are living in. Stamp a team with X conference affiliation then it will change everything for X university. However, we have a lot of P5 characteristics already necessary to seem legitimate right out of the gate.

So when are we going to rise to CUSA levels?...

Ben Gooding · March 16, 2015

We have. We are mediocre (unfortunately at best) with everything we do. We compete with our CUSA brethren to a certain degree. (Most of) Our peers don't have bigger stadiums, arenas, budget, attendance, etc. We are in terms of all those things statistically sitting right in the middle and in some categories in the upper tier of CUSA. Since joining CUSA we are 13-12 in football and 32-34 (I think) in men's basketball. We sit in the top half in terms of athletic budget and our attendance numbers are usually par for the course when considering our conference affiliation. Throw a Big12 patch on our unis and we at least double in everything. We are, unfortunately, the epitome of average.

untjim1995 · March 16, 2015

If it were up to me I'd say forget attendance, forget marketing, forget everything and spend every available penny on coaches and recruiting budgets.
Who gives a crap about a billboard on I-35 when we can't get a quarterback or keep (or in this case, get rid of) coaches.
RV doesn't need to go because he's doing a bad job. RV needs to go because he's doing the wrong kind of job for what UNT needs.

This.

Dan McCarney created at least some buzz around here becuase people had actually seen him do something of note at Iowa State as a head coach. No one else we have hired in the two big revenue sports can we say this about since we hired Hayden Fry in 1973.

When the Benford Experiment is finally ended next year, I will go back to hoping we do something to hire someone we have heard of before. Unlike in football, where a big name school dwarfs the support and resources we will ever have, basketball is a whole different animal. Just want someone who knows how to be a head coach and has had success before as a head coach. Another unknown assistant will not be cool. At this point, I'd settle for even a head coach at an SBC or SLC school, too. Or even the guy at New Mexico State that has been to the tournament 5 times in the last 6 years...

Dr. Seuss · March 16, 2015

This.

Dan McCarney created at least some buzz around here becuase people had actually seen him do something of note at Iowa State as a head coach. No one else we have hired in the two big revenue sports can we say this about since we hired Hayden Fry in 1973.

When the Benford Experiment is finally ended next year, I will go back to hoping we do something to hire someone we have heard of before. Unlike in football, where a big name school dwarfs the support and resources we will ever have, basketball is a whole different animal. Just want someone who knows how to be a head coach and has had success before as a head coach. Another unknown assistant will not be cool. At this point, I'd settle for even a head coach at an SBC or SLC school, too. Or even the guy at New Mexico State that has been to the tournament 5 times in the last 6 years...

Why would they come and coach at North Texas? We are not some storied program. They would be leaving a program in which they probably built to take a chance and rebuild at North Texas. We kinda have to get assistants with our budget and programs lack of history.

If we were ever able to make a tournament run, then we we would have something but WKU is way ahead of UNT.

Arkstfan · March 16, 2015

This.

Dan McCarney created at least some buzz around here becuase people had actually seen him do something of note at Iowa State as a head coach. No one else we have hired in the two big revenue sports can we say this about since we hired Hayden Fry in 1973.

When the Benford Experiment is finally ended next year, I will go back to hoping we do something to hire someone we have heard of before. Unlike in football, where a big name school dwarfs the support and resources we will ever have, basketball is a whole different animal. Just want someone who knows how to be a head coach and has had success before as a head coach. Another unknown assistant will not be cool. At this point, I'd settle for even a head coach at an SBC or SLC school, too. Or even the guy at New Mexico State that has been to the tournament 5 times in the last 6 years...

It causes nightsweats for AD's because of the outlaw reputation but if I were hiring a hoops coach I'd look really hard at a juco coach. Anyone successful in juco is tight with AAU coaches and Division I coaches who have placed players with them. Those connections can be a real boost.

SilverEagle · March 16, 2015

If it were up to me I'd say forget attendance, forget marketing, forget everything and spend every available penny on coaches and recruiting budgets.
Who gives a crap about a billboard on I-35 when we can't get a quarterback or keep (or in this case, get rid of) coaches.
RV doesn't need to go because he's doing a bad job. RV needs to go because he's doing the wrong kind of job for what UNT needs.

You better spend a lot on recruitment and coaches who can recruit. But IMHO even the best recruiters have a hard time recruiting to a school that it's home town pretty much ignores....not to mention it's 150K+ alumni living just 30-50- miles away.

greenminer · March 16, 2015

Fort Worth is all about TCU, they averaged over 40,000 for all of their home games this year (including the Samford game). The reason I would take their model is because they created this success in the same region as us, and they built their way up to the P5 level.

And to your basketball note, both of their programs finished with above .500 records. The men went 18-15 on this year and played in a conference that we wouldn't have been able to win 1 game in. They also beat both Ole Miss and Mississippi St in non-conference games. If their basketball leaves much to be desired then what can you say about ours?

They also have one of the top baseball programs in the nation...what is wrong with this model?

Their bball does leave much to be desired. All your points are valid if you want to say they are better than UNT. Congrats, that's not saying much. TCU bball is pretty irrelevant in the national media's eyes, and locally.

I'd like to see 20+ wins every year and contention for postseason progress. I tip my hat back to Wisconsin: consistently competitive for the B10, Rose Bowl appearances and - well would you look at that - a 1 seed in the NCAA bracket.

I know there's a lot of love for baseball around here, but it is non-revenue. I would praise any and all success brought to baseball, soccer, softball, etc...but for the point of this discussion I think emphasis needs to be made on the 3 money makers. Our current ROI in Denton is horrendous.

meanrob · March 16, 2015

I doubt a 17yr old kid chooses not to go to UNT due to apathetic alumni.

I seriously doubt apathetic alumni is the reason several of Mac's classes haven't panned out.

We shouldn't be crying poor here. Our budget is mid to upper half CUSA. I'd say our facilities are definitely upper half. Our results are....

Eagle1855 · March 16, 2015

If you win a lot of games, you'll get a lot of gimmick-free marketing at no cost by way of ESPN, FSN, local media and casual fans word of mouth. Which is the only reason we know anything about Boise. It certainly isn't because of billboards or posters.

Oh, and people would show up. Because people like watching winners.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Eagle1855

Ben Gooding · March 17, 2015

If you win a lot of games, you'll get a lot of gimmick-free marketing at no cost by way of ESPN, FSN, local media and casual fans word of mouth. Which is the only reason we know anything about Boise. It certainly isn't because of billboards or posters.

Oh, and people would show up. Because people like watching winners.

Well I guess we better just start going 15-0 every year... 0_o

Eagle1855 · March 17, 2015

Well I guess we better just start going 15-0 every year... 0_o

Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Army of Dad · March 17, 2015

I know there's a lot of love for baseball around here, but it is non-revenue. I would praise any and all success brought to baseball, soccer, softball, etc...but for the point of this discussion I think emphasis needs to be made on the 3 money makers. Our current ROI in Denton is horrendous.

I know we often talk about WBB as a revenue sport, but WBB loses money at all but a handful of schools and doubt they have ever made money here. I suspect the reason it's included here is because there really isn't anything else that moves the needle. If you want to talk about only money makers then drop WBB from the conversation.

Green P1 · March 17, 2015

drop WBB from the conversation.

Sounds like a plan!

Mean Green 93-98 · March 17, 2015

I know there's a lot of love for baseball around here, but it is non-revenue. I would praise any and all success brought to baseball, soccer, softball, etc...but for the point of this discussion I think emphasis needs to be made on the 3 money makers. Our current ROI in Denton is horrendous.

I know we often talk about WBB as a revenue sport, but WBB loses money at all but a handful of schools and doubt they have ever made money here. I suspect the reason it's included here is because there really isn't anything else that moves the needle. If you want to talk about only money makers then drop WBB from the conversation.

We talk about our "big 3" sports (or "revenue sports") as being football, MBB, and WBB. But that's only because we don't have baseball. Throughout college sports, the "big 3" are football, men's basketball, and baseball.

greenminer · March 17, 2015

Throughout college sports, the "big 3" are football, men's basketball, and baseball.

3 years ago, baseball was dead last in men's sports based on generated revenue. Maybe your statement is based on a study that reflects a dramatic change. I can't find it.

Division I-A baseball programs reported a median loss of nearly $700,000 in 2012, the highest among men’s sports, according to the latest available NCAA report.

link

UNTLifer · March 17, 2015

Yeah let's keep rehashing events of 38 years ago.
Might as well say you're ok with the direction of the football program because we beat Tennessee.

Maybe if you would read my post in the context intended you would understand it. When I state "pre-RV," I meant every year leading up to that point. Someone mentioned the teams during our Southland days which I was responding to.

We have to rethink the entire process and realize Denton isn't going to magically start supporting us, so let's keep going after the current students and young alumni. If we could have some sustained success, not only conference games, we could really build a strong base. The AD has to step up to make this happen, and that is what concerns me. I agree with your points about what needs to be done, so I guess I wasn't making myself clear.

Edited March 17, 2015 by UNTLifer

oldguystudent · March 17, 2015

Mike Izzi came from Stanford to lowly Orange County for the meager sum of $190K/yr in 2007. In that time, four men's volleyball national championships, two baseball world series with an additional two super regionals and two more post season berths, two men's soccer sweet 16 appearances with conference titles to go with, and he hired the guy who now has the men's basketball team on their third consecutive 20-win season, and finally, after 37 years of D-1 sports, their first ever NCAA tournament appearance.

Drawbacks -- Mike Izzi is very much a "Give me unrestricted seven figure checks or GTFO" type of athletic director. He will not shake your hand. He will not walk through the stands and smile at you. He will completely disregard you unless you belong to the super, super, uber vvvvip velvet rope crowd.

I personally can't stand they guy, but damn if he doesn't get results at a school that has never, ever cared, who still struggles to get over 1,000 people to a home basketball game.

UNT90 · March 17, 2015

Drawbacks -- Mike Izzi is very much a "Give me unrestricted seven figure checks or GTFO" type of athletic director. He will not shake your hand. He will not walk through the stands and smile at you. He will completely disregard you unless you belong to the super, super, uber vvvvip velvet rope crowd.

I personally can't stand they guy, but damn if he doesn't get results at a school that has never, ever cared, who still struggles to get over 1,000 people to a home basketball game.

Do you want to win or do you want an AD that is a suck ass? I'll take winning EVERY time.

I don't give 2 craps about an AD smooth talking me at a football game. I don't want an AD spending time with me, because that is time he could be spending with someone with tons more resources than I.

You seem to forget that while you go to college sporting events to be entertained, the sporting event is the the prime time for an AD to do his job, not hobknob with the minimal donor.

The problem at UNT is the AD only has about 8 of those big donors to talk with, leaving a lot of time to talk to the commoners.

It sounds like Mike Izzi is a professional doing a job. What I would give for that in our AD's office.

Edited March 17, 2015 by UNT90

oldguystudent · March 17, 2015

I write that portion in context of the existing UNT fan base. I can see there would be lots of grumbling if a guy like that were to come to Denton.

The thing with Orange County is that the school had only existed for 40 years when he came around. The student enrollment hadn't yet reached 20,000 students, and a very, very large percentage of those were, um...international students who came, got their pre-med degrees, and fled, never to be heard from again.

I have no idea how this guy did his data mining and soliciting, because if you think UNT alum are apathetic, you've never seen young California commuter schools.

That's the point. I don't know how he'd find them, but there would be more than 8 big donors. And he'd tell them how he is spending their money, not the other way.

But I reiterate. Guy's a dick if you're not sporting the AMEX black.

Mean Green 93-98 · March 17, 2015

3 years ago, baseball was dead last in men's sports based on generated revenue. Maybe your statement is based on a study that reflects a dramatic change. I can't find it.

link

Thanks for that. I guess the terminology "big 3" doesn't necessarily refer to revenue, but the "big 3" sports are generally considered football, men's basketball, and baseball.

And while it may not be as much of a money drain as baseball, women's basketball is not typically a revenue sport: http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/29/when-its-okay-to-lose-money-the-business-of-womens-college-basketball/