If North Texas Wins Less Then 5 Games Should...

GrandGreen · March 5, 2015

Yes, RV has did wonders compared to NT history. So what? The question is how has he done compared to what would be expected out of a competent AD.

You can give RV credit for all those things listed by UNTlifer above with the exception of the 5 bowl wins, four of which were by a coach he didn't hire and defied him at every turn. However, if you are going to credit RV with all the successes NT has had in athletics in his tenure, you have to also give him full blame for the problems. Poor records in the three major sports, never selling out a great stadium, scheduling issues, giving unnecessary costly contract extensions, more than his share of bad revenue sports hc hires. I also would contend that fund raising is definitely a negative not

a plus under his leadership.

RV has been here 14 years, I don't think he is going to change any culture. Again, I believe we are fooling ourselves if we are satisfied that we are in much better shape than we were over a decade ago. There are a lot of programs that did not even exist at the FB level that long ago that have moved even or passed NT by.

CMJ · March 5, 2015

The difference is that they didn't have to overcome a history of disinterest from their administration, alumni apathy, and the stigma of historically being a losing program. I would be comfortable in stating that it is much easier to start from scratch than to take over a program with 80+ years of pretty much losing and being treated as an afterthought by the university administration.

That is how I look at it from a realistic point of view.

Realistic? According to wikipedia, we have been playing football since 1913. Our record is 487-472-32. We have won 25 conference championships. That is one every 4 years on average. When we were in school we went to 1aa playoffs.
We do not have 80 plus years of losing. Take away last two years of dickey and dodge disaster we would be 50 games over 500. I am tired of hearing about losing tradition.

Most of that winning was decades ago.

I went back the last fifty years. We've had 13 winning seasons in that span. So, just over one every four years. On average if you've gone to school at NT in the last two and half generations you saw one winning season while enrolled....one.

So, maybe not 80+ years of losing. How about 50 plus?

Edited March 5, 2015 by CMJ

Ben Gooding · March 5, 2015

Some people on here...

....They're just dumb...

UNTFan23 · March 5, 2015

Most of that winning was decades ago.

I went back the last fifty years. We've had 13 winning seasons in that span. So, just over one every four years. On average if you've gone to school at NT in the last two and half generations you saw one winning season while enrolled....one.

So, maybe not 80+ years of losing. How about 50 plus?

A lot of those winning seasons (four - 2002, 2003, 2004, 2013) have been within in the last 15 years.

UNTLifer · March 5, 2015

Some people on here...
....They're just dumb...

Pot meet kettle.

CMJ · March 5, 2015

A lot of those winning seasons (four - 2002, 2003, 2004, 2013) have been within in the last 15 years.

I know - was just trying to give some historical perspective since that was what was being argued.

It's tough to build a fan base if they never see winning. When I was in school I didn't see a winning season in football or basketball (well, okay we did have some good years in WBB, which is why I was more forgiving of Slinker than many). No clue how I stuck around. I must be a masochist.

FirefightnRick · March 5, 2015

The difference is that they didn't have to overcome a history of disinterest from their administration, alumni apathy, and the stigma of historically being a losing program. I would be comfortable in stating that it is much easier to start from scratch than to take over a program with 80+ years of pretty much losing and being treated as an afterthought by the university administration.

That is how I look at it from a realistic point of view.

Realistic? According to wikipedia, we have been playing football since 1913. Our record is 487-472-32. We have won 25 conference championships. That is one every 4 years on average. When we were in school we went to 1aa playoffs.
We do not have 80 plus years of losing. Take away last two years of dickey and dodge disaster we would be 50 games over 500. I am tired of hearing about losing tradition.

This Im with you 100 percent. Good post and good points.

Rick

Edited March 5, 2015 by FirefightnRick

GRN-WHT · March 5, 2015

We do not have 80 plus years of losing. Take away last two years of dickey and dodge disaster we would be 50 games over 500. I am tired of hearing about losing tradition.

You just made the point for why RV should be fired. He's totally killing our winning tradition.

Want a culture change? Start with the Athletic Director.

UNT90 · March 5, 2015

I must be a masochist.

As is every UNT fan.

It's a requirement.

Some just like the pain more than others...

DallasGreen · March 5, 2015

I know that it was a long time ago but I saw only 5 or 6 FB loses my last three years at North Texas. We had a number of players that achieved success in the pros, but the one thing that never changed was lack of attendance. There were other successes under Fry, Nelson, and Dickey, but still no increase in attendance. MAC talks a good game, but it is time for him to back it up when he says " losing is not acceptable" and make his players believe that as well. I have seen that people can be inspired when they see success, but I find MAC's tirade at the signing day to be nauseating. Put a product on the field and we can draw ( see Heart of Dallas Bowl). But note the biggest crowds we have had have always been in Dallas where the alumni base and the money reside. As long as our students pay 1/2 the athletic fee of those at UTSA and TSU@SM we will suffer. Not playing the third game in the Cotton Bowl during the State Fair is just stupid. Denton is content for UNT to be seen as only a music and education school. Why is this so? Is this a unique city of 100K+ that is too stupid to realize without their largest employer and provider of sales tax revenue that they would be of stature with Sanger or Decatur? Music and education provided the foundation for today's UNT but today UNT is business, medicine, pharmacy, engineering, logistics, fashion, and art . To compare the UNT of today to that of 50 years ago is apples and oranges . Put a product on the field NOW! I am sick of losing to a program that gave up FB (UAB) and start ups (UTSA) with players who are uninspired, unprepared, and not put in a position to win by a coach and staff that are the highest paid and best equipped of any FB staff ever at NT!!!

Ben Gooding · March 5, 2015

I know that it was a long time ago but I saw only 5 or 6 FB loses my last three years at North Texas. We had a number of players that achieved success in the pros, but the one thing that never changed was lack of attendance. There were other successes under Fry, Nelson, and Dickey, but still no increase in attendance. MAC talks a good game, but it is time for him to back it up when he says " losing is not acceptable" and make his players believe that as well. I have seen that people can be inspired when they see success, but I find MAC's tirade at the signing day to be nauseating. Put a product on the field and we can draw ( see Heart of Dallas Bowl). But note the biggest crowds we have had have always been in Dallas where the alumni base and the money reside. As long as our students pay 1/2 the athletic fee of those at UTSA and TSU@SM we will suffer. Not playing the third game in the Cotton Bowl during the State Fair is just stupid. Denton is content for UNT to be seen as only a music and education school. Why is this so? Is this a unique city of 100K+ that is too stupid to realize without their largest employer and provider of sales tax revenue that they would be of stature with Sanger or Decatur? Music and education provided the foundation for today's UNT but today UNT is business, medicine, pharmacy, engineering, logistics, fashion, and art . To compare the UNT of today to that of 50 years ago is apples and oranges . Put a product on the field NOW! I am sick of losing to a program that gave up FB (UAB) and start ups (UTSA) with players who are uninspired, unprepared, and not put in a position to win by a coach and staff that are the highest paid and best equipped of any FB staff ever at NT!!!

PREEEEEAAACH!!!!

97and03 · March 5, 2015

Damn right he should be.

But he won't.

GrandGreen · March 6, 2015

RV has made with McCarney's extension last year just about unmovable for at least three years if not four. Without that shrewd move, Mac would be in the fourth year of his contract and would have to perform well next year to be maintained.

Other than make McCarney happy, there was no reason to give him an extension after his third year. He had a good year in 2013, give him a raise or a bonus; but don't tie up the university for more years based on one year's performance. Particularly, based on a team that that was led by Dodge's recruits. It didn't take a genius to question Mac's recruiting after three seasons.

McCarney deserves another year, not four at this point.

Ben Gooding · March 6, 2015

Another year to make 5/6 losing seasons. Cut your loses when you can...RV made that impossible to do from a financial standpoint. Mac might STILL be the coach sitting at 7/8 losing seasons and RV will still be spewing out excuses. It's unbelievable to be honest.

meangreendork · March 6, 2015

You know, can we drop McCarney and RV if the team goes under 5? I'm pretty sure we can still find an AD who can improve upon or keep the standing of the athletic programs that are successful while getting better basketball and football coaches.

MeanGreenTexan · March 6, 2015

You know, can we drop McCarney and RV if the team goes under 5? I'm pretty sure we can still find an AD who can improve upon or keep the standing of the athletic programs that are successful while getting better basketball and football coaches.

Who's fronting the buyout money for both?

And if we want to fire McCarney before firing Benford and/or Peterson, then we may want to consider dropping basketball altogether.

UNT90 · March 6, 2015

Who's fronting the buyout money for both?
And if we want to fire McCarney before firing Benford and/or Peterson, then we may want to consider dropping basketball altogether.

We can't do this, we can't do that.

We can't. We can't, we can't.

If we can't fire unsuccessful employees, we shouldn't be playing at the FCS level, plain and simple.

Aldo · March 6, 2015

Who's fronting the buyout money for both?

Yeah I was wondering, if McCarney were to be fired after the 2015 season ended (which realistically will not happen, and disagree this is the issue), how many years of salary will he be owed?

Same q for the AD?

What would a "better" coach have done with what we had? Or AD (chicken/egg situation)?

Also, who would pay that "better" coach or AD? Just take a look at those salaries, especially positional coaches and assistants. Will UNT pay more in the future to go after more renowned coaches?

Just win baby.

flyonthewall · March 6, 2015

We can build a stadium, We can build practice fields, We can hire a name football coach.

Does anyone know how the difference between McCarney salary and dodge's salary was raised? Because I do. That is why when you people insult the decision to hire McCarney, extend him etc, you are indirectly insulting some major donors. So getting rid of RV, and McCarney means firing some people who are writing checks behind the scenes to make things happen. That is the way it works. Sorry to all of you haters, but starting from scratch will be more painful than you realize.

You guys are insane.

Carry on, why.....

I agree with please, please, please just win baby.

#itsallajoke

Ryan Munthe · March 6, 2015

We can build a stadium, We can build practice fields, We can hire a name football coach.

Does anyone know how the difference between McCarney salary and dodge's salary was raised? Because I do. That is why when you people insult the decision to hire McCarney, extend him etc, you are indirectly insulting some major donors. So getting rid of RV, and McCarney means firing some people who are writing checks behind the scenes to make things happen. That is the way it works. Sorry to all of you haters, but starting from scratch will be more painful than you realize.

You guys are insane.

Carry on, why.....

I agree with please, please, please just win baby.

#itsallajoke

It's all armchair ADs. Why do you even do this to yourself anymore, posting on here? It's just a losing battle.

Edited March 6, 2015 by Ryan Munthe

GreenMachine · March 6, 2015

We can build a stadium, We can build practice fields, We can hire a name football coach.

Does anyone know how the difference between McCarney salary and dodge's salary was raised? Because I do. That is why when you people insult the decision to hire McCarney, extend him etc, you are indirectly insulting some major donors. So getting rid of RV, and McCarney means firing some people who are writing checks behind the scenes to make things happen. That is the way it works. Sorry to all of you haters, but starting from scratch will be more painful than you realize.

You guys are insane.

Carry on, why.....

I agree with please, please, please just win baby.

#itsallajoke

so you are saying these big donors would quit donating if we got a new HC and AD?

flyonthewall · March 6, 2015

The new ad would have to rebuild relationships. Head coach no. But there would be some blowback if RV was fired. It happens everywhere. We lost Bobby Ray and mattress mack when Dickey was fired. Took 3 to 4 years to replace just those two. I would take Ernie over McIngvale any day, But why not have both?

Ben Gooding · March 6, 2015

Flyonthewall is talking all politics. I don't care about politics, I care about winning on the field and court. We aren't winning on either. If Benford and Mac win then RV would just be a blip on the radar. They are both losing at a high rate. So...we see the effect every season...next step us to get to the cause. The cause of our losing lies within the coaching staffs that were hired by our AD (RV). So to change the effect, we have to change the cause. So... What do you (flyinthewall) want us to do as fans? Sit here and take losing with no backlash? Just be thankful we have sports? Not care, at all (like most alum)? What do YOU expect us to do and how do YOU expect us to act? We are now 119 games under .500 under RV. 119...and unfortunately counting...

Whet does an AD say to a fan base that has endured that kind of losing... "I'm doing my best."

Well...

GRN-WHT · March 6, 2015

The new ad would have to rebuild relationships. Head coach no. But there would be some blowback if RV was fired. It happens everywhere. We lost Bobby Ray and mattress mack when Dickey was fired. Took 3 to 4 years to replace just those two. I would take Ernie over McIngvale any day, But why not have both?

So you come on here and bash those that don't donate because RV puts out a poor product, yet what you're saying is that some in your clique of big donors will drop out if RV is gone?? Hypocritical much?

How about all of the relationships that can be formed when we actually get an AD in here that is committed to winning and has an expectation of excellence.

UNTcrazy727 · March 6, 2015

We can build a stadium, We can build practice fields, We can hire a name football coach.

Does anyone know how the difference between McCarney salary and dodge's salary was raised? Because I do. That is why when you people insult the decision to hire McCarney, extend him etc, you are indirectly insulting some major donors. So getting rid of RV, and McCarney means firing some people who are writing checks behind the scenes to make things happen. That is the way it works. Sorry to all of you haters, but starting from scratch will be more painful than you realize.

You guys are insane.

Carry on, why.....

I agree with please, please, please just win baby.

#itsallajoke

I'm confused, I thought the biggest reason alumni donated money is so their school could compete at the highest possible level, not so they could be golf buddies with the AD? Our top donors should be insulted with the results RV and Mac have gotten with their donations, not with the casual fan who expects to compete every year.

This explains a lot though...