If North Texas Wins Less Then 5 Games Should...

eulessismore · March 4, 2015

If McCarney wins less than 5 games, Mike Peterson should be fired.

UNT90 · March 4, 2015

People talking about coaches in ever single money sport needin' firin', yet not much talk about the person responsible for hirin' em in the first place.

Well goooooollllllly!

Army of Dad · March 4, 2015

Im getting a vibe that this is a throw away year. Probably been viewed that way for a while with the 2 body bags. The new DC, the jucos, then the way the cusa schedule looks, seems like we decided to take the hard schedule this year and the messed up bye week, so we can get an easier schedule next year. If we start slow, I hope we start preparing for 2016.

You really believe that was a deal that RV struck with CUSA.

I may have a wonderful piece of eventual beachfront property to sell you!

UNTLifer · March 4, 2015

People talking about coaches in ever single money sport needin' firin', yet not much talk about the person responsible for hirin' em in the first place.
Well goooooollllllly!

No, just the same old Dirty Half Dozen kicking the same dead horse. I am sure, based on his personality, that Mac is just going to skate through this year. Man, what an idiotic post and someone else thought the post with that sentiment in it was a thread winner. Typical North Texas fans. "I'm not going, showing up, donating, etc... until they do what I think is best. Wonder why there is a budget to adhere to? Because our alumni are cheap and don't support the program until they get their way. Then, when that tanks they forget how they were in favor of everything and start throwing darts at the program and anybody that doesn't agree with them.

God forbid we acknowledge the budget increase, the facilities, the fund raising, the corporate sponsorships secured during a down economy, a new conference, etc....

And no, I don't have a direct line to RV. I have never personally spoken to him, emailed him once back when Mac was hired asking about Chico's status which he replied to quickly, which probably does not happen at any other D1 school. But, I have been in attendance at one function that he was the main speaker this was when he was first hired and he was out drumming up support and selling his vision to bring our facilities up to D1 standards. My point? No, he isn't perfect, but he has accomplished more at UNT than any other AD in our history, even more than the beloved Hayden Fry. Are there things he could do better? Absolutely, but so many of you are so full of hate towards the man that I don't think it would matter what he does because you all would bitch and moan about something.

Keep looking for that turd in the punch bowl and you will always find it.

emmitt01 · March 4, 2015

" No, he isn't perfect, but he has accomplished more at UNT than any other AD in our history,"

And there it is again. Compared to complete and utter neglect, it's progress

Edited March 4, 2015 by emmitt01

GRN-WHT · March 4, 2015

No, he isn't perfect, but he has accomplished more at UNT than any other AD in our history, even more than the beloved Hayden Fry.

Some places have a standard of excellence.

We just have a standard of being better than the last guy.

UNT90 · March 4, 2015

14 years of less than average is good enough for most UNT fans.

And Lifer, I donated to the stadium campaign through club seat ticket purchase, so shut the hell up about "not donating" already.

That investment has been rewarded with 2 five home game seasons in 5 years of football at Apogee.

Edited March 4, 2015 by UNT90

Eagle1855 · March 4, 2015

14 years of less than average is good enough for most UNT fans.

I don't believe that to be the case. And I can prove it by pointing to attendance -- or rather, the lack thereof. I think the reality is, most UNT fans just haven't known any different and because of that, don't expect much more, and can't be bothered to get worked up about something they believe they've little control over.

oldguystudent · March 4, 2015

Somewhere along the line our society changed from a chicken in every pot to being sold on an instant pheasant ranch for every household, means to get there be damned.

UNT90 · March 4, 2015

I don't believe that to be the case. And I can prove it by pointing to attendance -- or rather, the lack thereof. I think the reality is, most UNT fans just haven't known any different and because of that, don't expect much more, and can't be bothered to get worked up about something they believe they've little control over.

My mistake, I should have said "good enough for the UNT fans that are still around."

As you point out, there really aren't that many of us compared to the alumni base, and the number hasn't substantially grown in the last 14 years.

A fairly good portion of the alums that have lost/never had interest in UNT athletics make fun of the program on the rare occasion that they mention it at all.

The fans that simply accept it really are no better, and would probably change to the above categorie if they lost interest, because they of all people know the joke of a culture here.

But ya, the last 14 years have been swell.

Eagle1855 · March 4, 2015

My mistake, I should have said "good enough for the UNT fans that are still around."
As you point out, there really aren't that many of us compared to the alumni base, and the number hasn't substantially grown in the last 14 years.
A fairly good portion of the alums that have lost/never had interest in UNT athletics make fun of the program on the rare occasion that they mention it at all.
The fans that simply accept it really are no better, and would probably change to the above categorie if they lost interest, because they of all people know the joke of a culture here.

The ones that are still around are the deluded dreamers, drunk on potential, who still have faith in what is possible. (I am in this category.)

We need to win. And we need to win regularly. That's what cures all of the rest.

So if we win less than 5 games, should he be fired? I don't know. And I don't know if it matters because it's probably not going to happen.

I don't understand why in the 16 years I've followed this program we haven't been able to get a decent QB to commit and stick around. I'm not talking about guys who came in, worked hard and against all odds (or by attrition), found some measure of success (Hall, Thompson). Rather, it seems every other non P5 program in the state has had at least one or two special multi-year starters at QB and we've had zero. To me, that's been UNT's Achilles'. To me, that's why we've never had an upset, program-defining win. Every year it's the same discussion: Who's going to play QB?

What would it be like to have the same QB start a couple years in a row?

Ben Gooding · March 4, 2015

The schedule?..aside from Iowa and Tennessee we are playing our PEERS in our head coaches 5th season here and we are already rolling out the schedule excuse in March??!! Be damn shamed with yourselves for even thinking about using that lame ass excuse. Pitiful...absolutely pitiful. We are playing 6 beatable teams and 10 winnable games and the excuses are already pouring in. It's really a shame.

untjim1995 · March 4, 2015

The ones that are still around are the deluded dreamers, drunk on potential, who still have faith in what is possible. (I am in this category.)

We need to win. And we need to win regularly. That's what cures all of the rest.

So if we win less than 5 games, should he be fired? I don't know. And I don't know if it matters because it's probably not going to happen.

I don't understand why in the 16 years I've followed this program we haven't been able to get a decent QB to commit and stick around. I'm not talking about guys who came in, worked hard and against all odds (or by attrition), found some measure of success (Hall, Thompson). Rather, it seems every other non P5 program in the state has had at least one or two special multi-year starters at QB and we've had zero. To me, that's been UNT's Achilles'. To me, that's why we've never had an upset, program-defining win. Every year it's the same discussion: Who's going to play QB?

What would it be like to have the same QB start a couple years in a row?

I am here because they are my team, nothing more and nothing less.

I have learned that to have expectations of any kind of a winner here are basically useless until the BOR makes losing unacceptable. The only thing that is unacceptable is going overbudget. SO to say that even going 0-12 in 2015 would cost McCarney his job is baseless--the coordinators might get canned, but he won't.

Simlar to what has been mentioned, 2015 is a "regrouping year" to me. See if you can find players for the next few years, see if you have kids that want to get stronger and faster and better, both in the weight room and on the field. We aren't going to win more than 5 games this upcoming year, based on the schedule and the personnel we have (or don't have) right now. Seriously, I think 3-9 is probably what we see here. You have to find a QB, but McNulty is going to be that guy this year and even if he improves, he is still a senior, so you got to find someone you feel good about driving the bus in the 2016 season.

The reasons we haven't a good QB is that the two main coaches in that timeframe, Dickey and McCarney, prefer a run-based offense to a throw-it around spread offense. The one coach we had that liked to throw it around, Todd Dodge, put almost nothing into offensive line strength, so Vizza, Riley, Nathan Tune, etc...got their brains beat in. Now that we are back to the bus-driver du jour offensive mindset, combined with 95% of the Texas HS teams throwing, getting a really good play-making QB isn't going to happen. Scott Halll and Derek Thompson are both going to be your standard-bearers for the QB position here when the bus driver is all that is demanded from the spot.

MeanGreenTexan · March 4, 2015

The schedule?..aside from Iowa and Tennessee we are playing our PEERS in our head coaches 5th season here and we are already rolling out the schedule excuse in March??!! Be damn shamed with yourselves for even thinking about using that lame ass excuse. Pitiful...absolutely pitiful. We are playing 6 beatable teams and 10 winnable games and the excuses are already pouring in. It's really a shame.

Ben, in all honesty, from one Mean Green brother to you, it sounds like you could do yourself a favor and be a fan of UNT Jazz music, but when it comes to sports, you should follow Alabama football, Kentucky basketball and other teams that rarely lose in their given sport so you can be happy. You just have too much anger dude. It's not healthy at all.

Teams lose. Even against peer schools. Even against perceived 'lesser' schools. It just happens. Are any of us happy that it happens to UNT? Not at all! But man, it's not the end of the world.

acc5d6d0f6c8dd9ee5c1dcf065b9f46b2749c53b

Ben Gooding · March 4, 2015

Not mad, not really mad at all. But the expectations and accountability on this board are pitiful.

Ben Gooding · March 4, 2015

I am here because they are my team, nothing more and nothing less.

I have learned that to have expectations of any kind of a winner here are basically useless until the BOR makes losing unacceptable. The only thing that is unacceptable is going overbudget. SO to say that even going 0-12 in 2015 would cost McCarney his job is baseless--the coordinators might get canned, but he won't.

Simlar to what has been mentioned, 2015 is a "regrouping year" to me. See if you can find players for the next few years, see if you have kids that want to get stronger and faster and better, both in the weight room and on the field. We aren't going to win more than 5 games this upcoming year, based on the schedule and the personnel we have (or don't have) right now. Seriously, I think 3-9 is probably what we see here. You have to find a QB, but McNulty is going to be that guy this year and even if he improves, he is still a senior, so you got to find someone you feel good about driving the bus in the 2016 season.

The reasons we haven't a good QB is that the two main coaches in that timeframe, Dickey and McCarney, prefer a run-based offense to a throw-it around spread offense. The one coach we had that liked to throw it around, Todd Dodge, put almost nothing into offensive line strength, so Vizza, Riley, Nathan Tune, etc...got their brains beat in. Now that we are back to the bus-driver du jour offensive mindset, combined with 95% of the Texas HS teams throwing, getting a really good play-making QB isn't going to happen. Scott Halll and Derek Thompson are both going to be your standard-bearers for the QB position here when the bus driver is all that is demanded from the spot.

So if 2015 is a "regrouping" year to you then what in the hell was 2014? Comments like that is THE root of the problem.

UNTLifer · March 4, 2015

I never said you didn't donate 90. As a whole, our alumni are cheap. We have 100,000+, some say 150,000+, alumni living in DFW and we can't even run a decent Mean Green Club. Hell, it was basically disbanded until RV got it back up and running. It is an embarrassment the lack of giving, yet so many say I will give when we win. Our history since the late 70's has sucked and has run off a lot of people. The program had to be rebuilt basically from the ground up. People used to bitch about Fouts. Build us a new stadium and we will come. We did and the attendance is still roughly the same. Sometimes you have to invest in the future, and the majority of our alumni won't do that. Everything is in place now to win except overcoming our history of losing and changing the culture of the program. I personally think Mac is on the right track to changing this culture within the program. The onus is on the AD to change the culture of the department and that is where the focus should be moving forward. IMHO, they should continue to target the students and young alumni moving forward. I would keep the older alumni informed, but really recruit the younger ones to the MGC, etc...

There are obviously two sides to this argument that has gone on for years. One side thinks we are headed in the right direction and understands that changing years of losing and the culture of not supporting the program takes time. The other wants change now. Hire a new coach every three or four years to replace the old one that still isn't achieving the results they desire and punt the AD to the curb regardless of what he accomplished during his time.

Call it comparing ourselves to our history. I don't care, but you can't compare us to Baylor, TCU, or other P5 conference teams because we don't have millions streaming in to our department from various sources. My expectations are as high as anybody's on this board, but I tend to temper mine with a dose or reality. For instance, I understand an 18 year old, 3-4 star recruit not choosing us over some other offers because of our history of losing. We have to overcome that, and that isn't happening overnight.

Edited March 4, 2015 by UNTLifer

UNT90 · March 4, 2015

Going on 14 years of "rebuilding" Lifer. During those 14 years, S. Florida has started a program and left us way, way behind.

So my question to you is how much longer are you willing to give RV since by your own admission he hasn't been able to get us where we need to be.

In 14 freaking years...

And what are those on the field accomplishments?

Edited March 4, 2015 by UNT90

flyonthewall · March 4, 2015

South Florida, they have passed us by? What was there record last year? 4-8? One of their wins was a whopping 14-13 victory over SMU. boy they have a stellar record in the american conference, I guess you could hang your hat on 56-45 in the now defunct big east. bowl appearances crushed by one with a 4-2 record. we have 5 with a 2-3 record. So I wouldn't say that they have passed us by.

flyonthewall · March 4, 2015

whoops sorry, reading the stats wrong their (USF) overall big east conference record was 22-34.

UNTLifer · March 5, 2015

In 14 years I see the following under RV:

* Facilities light years ahead of where they were when he arrived. I won't list them all because we all know what they are.

* Fundraising light years ahead of where it was when he arrived regarding large donations and million dollar + sponsorship deals.

* Move to a new conference.

* Better salaries for coaches.

* Resurrected the Mean Green Club, although much is needed as far as improvements.

* Created a Game Day experience by allowing tailgating.

* On the field, 5 bowl games in 14 years.

True, USF did start a program and succeed from day one. The difference is that they didn't have to overcome a history of disinterest from their administration, alumni apathy, and the stigma of historically being a losing program. I would be comfortable in stating that it is much easier to start from scratch than to take over a program with 80+ years of pretty much losing and being treated as an afterthought by the university administration.

That is how I look at it from a realistic point of view.

Now that the above is in place, RV needs to focus on changing the culture, creating winning programs and building the fan base through the current student body. He also needs to improve his hiring for the most visible sports. I still believe that Coach Mac was the right hire but the basketball program, although Benford was nationally recognized as a good hire, is still in question. I do believe his hands are tied by the BOR and the only way around that is to increase funding through donations for contract buy-outs or have the BOR loosen the purse strings. #2 ain't happening because of the budget issues.

You, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge any of this.

greenminer · March 5, 2015

If Mac lost his entire QB roster, was forced to use a 1 legged deaf kid to take snaps, and we (including Mac) all found out Chico has been blind for 2 years on the way to a 4-win season, some of y'all would find a way to hate Mac and want him fired.

UNT90 · March 5, 2015

UNT President - "congratulations RV on 22 years of service and a well deserved retirement"

Lifer whispers to friend - "if he had only stayed 2 more years, he would have turned the corner with the program."

4 of those 5 bowl games were in his first 5 years with someone else's hire at head coach.

Facilities are improved, but they HAD to improve or else we would have been forced down to FCS football.

Stadium. He gets credit. How much credit is arguable and will be revealed in Flyer's tell-all memoir of his time at UNT. Sure to sell 30 copies.

Donations are up, but not nearly as far up as they should be after 14 years as AD.

Mean Green Club numbers are an embarrassment, plain and simple. He has been here 14 years.

Credit for tailgating.

And how has he performed over the last 5 years? Athletic fee jacked up (yes, this mainly falls on Jackson, but RV bears responsibility as well, just like he gets credit for Apogee), terrible basketball hire which led to him publicly blaming players to protect his hire (the absolute low point of his career at UNT), terrible football scheduling leading to 2 five home game seasons in the first 5 years of Apogee (this after promising better schedules and 6 home game seasons when selling new stadium seating), terrible big sport hire after big sport hire, and blatantly lying about Tulsa being the cause if the 5 home game seasons.

But we are ok with it, because we are SLIGHTLY better than we were 14 years ago.

Edited March 5, 2015 by UNT90

flyonthewall · March 5, 2015

The difference is that they didn't have to overcome a history of disinterest from their administration, alumni apathy, and the stigma of historically being a losing program. I would be comfortable in stating that it is much easier to start from scratch than to take over a program with 80+ years of pretty much losing and being treated as an afterthought by the university administration.

That is how I look at it from a realistic point of view.

Realistic? According to wikipedia, we have been playing football since 1913. Our record is 487-472-32. We have won 25 conference championships. That is one every 4 years on average. When we were in school we went to 1aa playoffs.

We do not have 80 plus years of losing. Take away last two years of dickey and dodge disaster we would be 50 games over 500. I am tired of hearing about losing tradition.

Ben Gooding · March 5, 2015

In 14 years I see the following under RV:

* Facilities light years ahead of where they were when he arrived. I won't list them all because we all know what they are.
* Fundraising light years ahead of where it was when he arrived regarding large donations and million dollar + sponsorship deals.
* Move to a new conference.
* Better salaries for coaches.
* Resurrected the Mean Green Club, although much is needed as far as improvements.
* Created a Game Day experience by allowing tailgating.
* On the field, 5 bowl games in 14 years.

True, USF did start a program and succeed from day one. The difference is that they didn't have to overcome a history of disinterest from their administration, alumni apathy, and the stigma of historically being a losing program. I would be comfortable in stating that it is much easier to start from scratch than to take over a program with 80+ years of pretty much losing and being treated as an afterthought by the university administration.

That is how I look at it from a realistic point of view.

Now that the above is in place, RV needs to focus on changing the culture, creating winning programs and building the fan base through the current student body. He also needs to improve his hiring for the most visible sports. I still believe that Coach Mac was the right hire but the basketball program, although Benford was nationally recognized as a good hire, is still in question. I do believe his hands are tied by the BOR and the only way around that is to increase funding through donations for contract buy-outs or have the BOR loosen the purse strings. #2 ain't happening because of the budget issues.

You, on the other hand, refuse to acknowledge any of this.

I see losses, a shit ton of them.