MGB: Offseason questions series No.1 -- QB situation

UNTcrazy727 · February 10, 2015

I agree with everything except he did have good size. He was 6'4" and 220-230lbs.

I'm sorry, but DT was not 6'4...maybe 6'2. He looked like a dude off the street

untjim1995 · February 10, 2015

Y'all remember how terrible TCU's young Boykin was right? Took a few years, A LOT of turnovers, and some good coaching to turn it around. Now look at him and their offense.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/517127/trevone-boykin
Now, I'm not saying he's Boykin by any means, but I think you have to give this kid chances, specifically with the play calls made. Don't put a RS freshman in those spots if you know he makes bad decisions.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/549918/dajon-williams

Well, it took a complete, fundamental change in the offense, bringing in Sonny Cumbie to run the spread at TCU, that helped Boykin become a great QB. Literally zero of that type of change occurred here after the season...

GOMG2013 · February 10, 2015

McNulty was unimpressive last year, but he was not horrible. DT had a few flashes in 2012, but he also looked horrible at times. 2012 Troy may have been one of the worst games from a QB the last 3 years. UAB 2014 is the top.

Mini Mac has shown he can drive the bus with some improvement. He wont put a team on his back and win a game, but we did ok in 2013 with a bus driver. Just need the other areas to fall in place.

Edited February 10, 2015 by GOMG2013

GMG24 · February 10, 2015

True, however even in the "system" ( I hate that word as it insinuates anyone could step into the "system" and perform) Boykin was in he needed reps and practice to refine his skills, not taking away from the new guy they brought in because he is a heck of a ball coach, but if Boykin did not have the growing pains early on, I doubt he would be as successful as he was later on.

UNT90 · February 10, 2015

Y'all remember how terrible TCU's young Boykin was right? Took a few years, A LOT of turnovers, and some good coaching to turn it around. Now look at him and their offense.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/517127/trevone-boykin
Now, I'm not saying he's Boykin by any means, but I think you have to give this kid chances, specifically with the play calls made. Don't put a RS freshman in those spots if you know he makes bad decisions.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/549918/dajon-williams

Thought about this comparison earlier.

The difference is that Boykins emergence coincided with a change in OCs and a change in offensive philosophy. Mac made it quite clear that neither of those 2 things are changing anytime soon at UNT.

So the comparison, as much a stretch as it is, really is invalid.

GOMG2013 · February 10, 2015

Thought about this comparison earlier.
The difference is that Boykins emergence coincided with a change in OCs and a change in offensive philosophy. Mac made it quite clear that neither of those 2 things are changing anytime soon at UNT.
So the comparison, as much a stretch as it is, really is invalid.

If an accomplished OC was hired, Mac would give in a little like Patterson did. Problem is chico hasnt shown he can call plays either. He hasnt shown he is anything close to an offensive guru.

Based on what we have seen with the qb recruitment and playcalling, would you or any other coach give chico more freedom? If so, based on what?

meangreendork · February 10, 2015

McNulty was unimpressive last year, but he was not horrible. DT had a few flashes in 2012, but he also looked horrible at times. 2012 Troy may have been one of the worst games from a QB the last 3 years. UAB 2014 is the top.
Mini Mac has shown he can drive the bus with some improvement. He wont put a team on his back and win a game, but we did ok in 2013 with a bus driver. Just need the other areas to fall in place.

I can remember that I was not the biggest fan of Thompson in his first few years. He was passing 1:1 INT/TD at the time and I wanted someone else at QB, but we didn't have better options. He really came through in his senior season and his play was backed by the other units of the team as well.

Last season, the QB position didn't perform and the other units had trouble.

MeanGreenTexan · February 10, 2015

If an accomplished OC was hired, Mac would give in a little like Patterson did. Problem is chico hasnt shown he can call plays either. He hasnt shown he is anything close to an offensive guru.
Based on what we have seen with the qb recruitment and playcalling, would you or any other coach give chico more freedom? If so, based on what?

When we've had a QB who can do what Chico wants him to do (Riley on the zone read, Thompson on timing patterns come to mind), we've seen alot of creativity and explosive offense. And, when we've had a RB who can annihilate competition, he hands the ball off 30+ times/gm. Chico can call plays, but when the QB is not effective, it severely limits the plays he can call. It also doesn't help open the playbook when Mr. Old-School-Protect-the-Football is roaming the sidelines.

Arguing about Chico's development, or lack thereof, of QB's is one thing (he's certainly struggling in that department), but I cant understand how people fail to see that last year's offensive struggles lie squarely on 3 QB's shoulders.

GOMG2013 · February 10, 2015

When we've had a QB who can do what Chico wants him to do (Riley on the zone read, Thompson on timing patterns come to mind), we've seen alot of creativity and explosive offense. And, when we've had a RB who can annihilate competition, he hands the ball off 30+ times/gm. Chico can call plays, but when the QB is not effective, it severely limits the plays he can call. It also doesn't help open the playbook when Mr. Old-School-Protect-the-Football is roaming the sidelines.
Arguing about Chico's development, or lack thereof, of QB's is one thing (he's certainly struggling in that department), but I cant understand how people fail to see that last year's offensive struggles lie squarely on 3 QB's shoulders.

Our qbs are bad due to chicos recruitment. Then his development of borderline D1 talent makes them look like FCS. I watch conservative football every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. There are lots of defensive minded coaches. They are still better playcallers.

Their qbs are still better prepared.

at least half the teams in college football will run a guy out there that is not an ideal pro qb prospect. At least half the teams are going to have run heavy offenses. They make it work.

Urban Meyer used a 3rd string qb that needs a lot of work reading defenses and throwing the ball, to win a ship. They used his strength. His size and ability to break tackles, and made it work.

At Florida, tebo was a fullback that could throw.

Even UH, who plugged a Wr in at QB, went bowling and made the most of the talent they had. His throwing was not good at all. Ability to read defenses was below average.

Its more than just not trusting the qb. Mac doesnt trust the oc he inherited.

Edited February 10, 2015 by GOMG2013

BillySee58 · February 10, 2015

With Dajon, I just wouldn't bet on him to make it out of Coach Mac's doghouse. Especially after not even making the trip to UTSA. And I think if Means were going to be ready to start this year then he would've been able to at least make a little bit of noise in the QB race last year, especially with being an EE. So that's why I'm not too confident in their chances for starting this season.

Mcnulty did decent last year. I don't think he was giving us much less than what Thompson was giving us the year before. But our defense wasn't as good. And I don't expect our defense will be any better this year. Which is why we need Damarcus Smith to work out.

The basis of why I started my offer-list rating scale started from me taking a closer look at our all-CUSA players. I think we could've seen their all-CUSA years coming.

Take into account these 3 criteria:

1. Player had at least a "B" (usually better) offer list coming out of high school.

2. Player had plenty of experience, starting and/or being a rotational player, prior to all-CUSA season. Usually Juniors and Seniors.

3. Player "panned out". I.E. was not a bust. Was producing and proving they were a legitimate FBS player.

Now let's look at our all-CUSA players that we've had on defense, and what they were looking like heading into their eventual all-CUSA seasons.

2013:

- Zach Orr - "B+" recruit, two years of starting experience prior to 2013 season, team leader in tackles in 2011 & 2012.

- Aaron Bellazin - "A" recruit, starting experience as well as plenty of rotational work, and second on team in sacks in 2012.

- Marcus Trice - "A+" recruit, playing experience at OU and was coming off first full season as a starter in 2012 for us.

2014:

- James Jones - Very good JUCO offer list, JUCO All-American, took starting spot from returning starter in 2013 and gained experience as a starter for the rest of the year.

- Derek Akunne - "B" offer list (Air Force, Colorado State, Western Kentucky), second on team in tackles in 2012 and 2013.

If you look at those guys, they all fit all 3 of those criteria coming into the season in which they made all-CUSA. If you look at our defense this year, we don't have anyone who fits all 3 of those criteria coming into next season. The players we have who have experience were not highly recruited (i.e. Kenny Buyers). The ones who were highly recruited do not have the experience (i.e. Syd Moore, all of our JUCOs) or have not yet proven that they have panned out (i.e. Anthony Wallace). And the players have to learn a new system. Now I'm not saying our guys can't be all-CUSA this season. I'm just saying that the percentages are not in our favor and it would take someone bucking the trend and becoming an exceptional case for us to have multiple, or even one all-CUSA player on defense. A defense with no all-CUSA players does not equate to one we can lean on to win games, 2013 style. So we'll likely need to lean more on our offense.

Since Mccarney has been here, in our victories our opponents have averaged just 13.8 points. Last year in our victories, SMU had 6, Nicholls had 3, FAU had 10, and FIU had 14. This team has not been designed to win in shoot outs, but we may have to this year.

Even if we do have players surprise on defense, when you throw in the schedule, and how bad we've been on the road, I think we are going to need Smith to have a big year to have any shot at reaching a bowl this year. Luckily our offense does have some solid pieces around him.

Edited February 10, 2015 by BillySee58

UNT90 · February 10, 2015

If an accomplished OC was hired, Mac would give in a little like Patterson did. Problem is chico hasnt shown he can call plays either. He hasnt shown he is anything close to an offensive guru.
Based on what we have seen with the qb recruitment and playcalling, would you or any other coach give chico more freedom? If so, based on what?

If I was coach, Chico would have been gone at the end if last season based on terrible QB talent evaluation alone.

Then again, if I were coach, we would have gone 0-12 last season, so...

97and03 · February 10, 2015

Thought about this comparison earlier.
The difference is that Boykins emergence coincided with a change in OCs and a change in offensive philosophy. Mac made it quite clear that neither of those 2 things are changing anytime soon at UNT.
So the comparison, as much a stretch as it is, really is invalid.

Boykin also played through mistakes and was able to get reps and improve. How was Mac the only one that didn't realize that after 6 games we were pretty much headed to 4-8 regardless of qb?

Harry · February 11, 2015

If I was coach, Chico would have been gone at the end if last season based on terrible QB talent evaluation alone.
Then again, if I were coach, we would have gone 0-12 last season, so...

Chico had a two year contract as did Skladany after the bowl game. I didn't see to many arguing with that decision at the time or about Mac's extension.

UNT90 · February 11, 2015

Chico had a two year contract as did Skladany after the bowl game. I didn't see to many arguing with that decision at the time or about Mac's extension.

Right, and that wasn't after last season. I didn't even know about Chico's extension.

Things change. DT wasn't Chico's QB recruit. Chico's QB recruits failed miserably at a crucial time in UNT football history.

Things change. Year to year.

GOMG2013 · February 11, 2015

Chico had a two year contract as did Skladany after the bowl game. I didn't see to many arguing with that decision at the time or about Mac's extension.

Many people criticized chico even after the bowl season, and were happy when they thought he was leaving for another job. I didnt realize how bad he was till last year. I knew he wasnt that good though.

Mean Green 93-98 · February 11, 2015

Chico's recruits. Heh. Funny.

Ben Gooding · February 11, 2015

When we've had a QB who can do what Chico wants him to do (Riley on the zone read, Thompson on timing patterns come to mind), we've seen alot of creativity and explosive offense. And, when we've had a RB who can annihilate competition, he hands the ball off 30+ times/gm. Chico can call plays, but when the QB is not effective, it severely limits the plays he can call. It also doesn't help open the playbook when Mr. Old-School-Protect-the-Football is roaming the sidelines.
Arguing about Chico's development, or lack thereof, of QB's is one thing (he's certainly struggling in that department), but I cant understand how people fail to see that last year's offensive struggles lie squarely on 3 QB's shoulders.

The O has been sporadically inconsistent since Canales has been here and that includes 2013. We lost some very winnable games in 2013 bc of an at times inept offense. Any statement to negate that fact is ignorance.

Ben Gooding · February 11, 2015

Chico had a two year contract as did Skladany after the bowl game. I didn't see to many arguing with that decision at the time or about Mac's extension.

Wrong. People (I) took notice and voiced displeasure. Best case scenario with these extensions are that they actually pan out. How often does the best case scenario happen?