UNT Dallas law school gets creative

Harry · February 7, 2015

Its all happening in downtown Dallas, at the first public law school in North Texas.

Were basically a North Texas law school, Royal Furgeson, founding dean of the University of North Texas Dallas College of Law, was quick to point out. We dont angle or aspire to be a statewide or even regional law school.

What the law school does want, however, is to stand out, to bring new energy and faces into a legal profession that, particularly in Dallas County, is notorious for its dearth of women and minorities at major firms.

Its definitely off to a great start, with impressive enrollment statistics for an as-yet unaccredited first-year law school. More than 600 students applied, about four in 10 were offered admission, and 25 percent (153) enrolled.

Read more: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/columnists/james-ragland/20150206-with-no-alumni-first-year-north-texas-law-school-scouts-mentors.ece

FirefightnRick · February 8, 2015

Well I guess they've succeeded then because what "stands out" to me is that 600 people applied for an "as-yet unaccredited" law school.

Rick

HoustonEagle · February 8, 2015

Don't care...... Not our school. Another UNT FUBAR

UNT90 · February 8, 2015

Don't care...... Not our school. Another UNT FUBAR

Yep, UNT-Dallas's problem.

risinggreen · February 8, 2015

"We don't angle or even aspire to be a statewide or even regional law school."

Sounds like they want it to be the equivalent of a community college law school. Thanks Jackson. We certainly wouldn't want the new school to EVER compete with that other law school down the road.

Eagle1855 · February 8, 2015

Don't care...... Not our school. Another UNT FUBAR

Unfortunately, that they've seemingly thrown together an unaccredited community law school without ambitions of being competitive on a regional or *gasp* national level reflects poorly on UNT as a whole.

UNT90 · February 8, 2015

This should let everyone know how UNT is viewed by Lee Jackson and our legislature. Just a fall back college for those that can't make it in a real college. Just a local law school that's a fall back for those that don't qualify for better law schools.

And we wonder why we have no endowment and people disconnect from this university the moment they graduate.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 8, 2015

Just to give you an idea of where the law school is on the totem pole right now. I'll just compare it to lower-tiered law schools in Texas (omitting Texas, SMU, Houston, Baylor) and list them by LSAT scores for the 2014 incoming class.

Texas A&M - 154

Texas Tech - 154

South Texas - 153

St. Mary's - 153

UNT-Dallas - 147

Texas Southern 145

Which puts it in the same category as Texas Southern, but even Texas Southern is accredited and has an alumni base (it was founded in 1946). Texas Southern had an employment rate of 31% upon graduation at last count. Texas Southern also had a Bar Passage rate of 62.50% for the July bar.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 8, 2015

They are trying to market is as the "value law school," that is made up of "non-traditional students." Unfortunately, the harsh reality of the law profession is most legal employers do not care about how diverse your law school was. In fact, if you don't go to a school named University of Texas in the state of Texas you might as well mark yourself off the list of many employers. I hate that it is that way but unfortunately it is. There are still opportunities for folks who want to work in small to medium law firm but many of those people are going to one of the 4 options listed above (A&M, Tech, South Texas, St. Mary's). Which leaves UNT-Dallas Law in a very difficult spot.

GreenMachine · February 8, 2015

There are too many attorneys already. We need to get rid of a lot of ambulance chasers as it is.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 8, 2015

There are too many attorneys already. We need to get rid of a lot of ambulance chasers as it is.

I will say now is the best time in a long time to go to law school. Law school enrollments were down something like 40-50% since 2008-09 which is pretty remarkable. I don't think there are as many ambulance chasers as people think, they are just more visible with their commercials and have a bad reputation. They really don't do anything too dishonest, folks just get hurt and they try to get money out of their stingy insurance companies. The million dollar cases you hear about are the exception rather than the rule, usually its $100,000 or less and a lot of PI attorneys struggle financially from month to month.

Edited February 8, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

UNT90 · February 8, 2015

I will say now is the best time in a long time to go to law school. Law school enrollments were down something like 40-50% since 2008-09 which is pretty remarkable. I don't think there are as many ambulance chasers as people think, they are just more visible with their commercials and have a bad reputation.

There are A LOT of attorneys and competition for employment is fierce. The last thing this state needed was another law school, especially after TA@M outsmarted UNT with the purchase of Weslyan Law. Now there is an established, accredited public law school in the metroplex that offers graduates a lot of alumni connections for job opportunities.

Another opportunity lost. I wonder if Weslyan would have been in Dallas County if there would have been a different outcome in UNT's attempted purchase.

Yet another poor decision.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 8, 2015

There are A LOT of attorneys and competition for employment is fierce. The last thing this state needed was another law school, especially after TA@M outsmarted UNT with the purchase of Weslyan Law. Now there is an established, accredited public law school in the metroplex that offers graduates a lot of alumni connections for job opportunities.
Another opportunity lost. I wonder if Weslyan would have been in Dallas County if there would have been a different outcome in UNT's attempted purchase.
Yet another poor decision.

I think they are in a better position geographically being in Fort Worth (750,000 pop. + in its own right), which has a somewhat separate legal community from Dallas. TCU & UNT both attempted to purchase Wesleyan but the money wasn't right and at the time it was the only profitable operation Wesleyan had going for it. Texas definitely didn't need another law school, especially since A&M purchased Wesleyan. In fact, we could probably afford to close at least one down. At least we aren't New York City, which has 9 law schools in its city limits alone if I remember correctly...

GreenMachine · February 8, 2015

I will say now is the best time in a long time to go to law school. Law school enrollments were down something like 40-50% since 2008-09 which is pretty remarkable. I don't think there are as many ambulance chasers as people think, they are just more visible with their commercials and have a bad reputation. They really don't do anything too dishonest, folks just get hurt and they try to get money out of their stingy insurance companies. The million dollar cases you hear about are the exception rather than the rule, usually its $100,000 or less and a lot of PI attorneys struggle financially from month to month.

a lot of attorneys struggle financially because there are too damn many of them. Get a divorce in Denton County and look for family law attorneys and there are hundreds of the bastards stepping over each other to get a few billing hours. Bottom line, UNT law school was a cluster F from the beginning and wasnt needed.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 8, 2015

a lot of attorneys struggle financially because there are too damn many of them. Get a divorce in Denton County and look for family law attorneys and there are hundreds of the bastards stepping over each other to get a few billing hours. Bottom line, UNT law school was a cluster F from the beginning and wasnt needed.

The debt to income ratio certainly isn't what it used to be. Texas is actually middle of the pack for attorneys per capita. Talk to attorneys in California or New York right now. Thing is, Texas needs to keep it that way and the road to accreditation may be more difficult for UNT-Dallas than it would have been several years ago.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 8, 2015

Bottom line is the law school isn't helping the UNT system's reputation.

UNT90 · February 8, 2015

Bottom line is the law school isn't helping the UNT system's reputation.

And the cluster F way it got put under UNT-Dallas banner isn't helping either UNT law or the UNT system.

I mean, a start-up law school associated with a start-up university. What could go wrong?

I honestly have no idea why Lee Jackson gets a paycheck.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 8, 2015

And the cluster F way it got put under UNT-Dallas banner isn't helping either UNT law or the UNT system.
I mean, a start-up law school associated with a start-up university. What could go wrong?
I honestly have no idea why Lee Jackson gets a paycheck.

Yeah A&m law school immediately scrapped the idea of calling it "Texas A&M School of law at Texas Wesleyan University."

Cerebus · February 8, 2015

People, getting the law school isn't about creating lawyers, it about creating politicians. About 1/3 of the Texas legislature is made up of lawyers, by far the largest profession.

Now, how it was handled (Weslyan, Location, UNT-D, etc) has been a complete debacle.

GreenMachine · February 8, 2015

People, getting the law school isn't about creating lawyers, it about creating politicians. About 1/3 of the Texas legislature is made up of lawyers, by far the largest profession.

Now, how it was handled (Weslyan, Location, UNT-D, etc) has been a complete debacle.

And that's exactly what is wrong with the Texas Legislation.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 9, 2015

And that's exactly what is wrong with the Texas Legislation.

Tell us how you really feel about lawyers

KRAM1 · February 9, 2015

Do any of you people even know how law school accreditation is achieved? Appears not from your posts.

Edit: I see that my comment hit too close to home for a lot of folks...and your reaction confirms the fact that many have no clue whatsoever regarding law school accreditation processes. It takes time and it takes being in operation...you do not open an "accredited law school" on day one people. To knock the law school as not being "accredited" is just plain ignorance...but Only at North Texas do we "eat our own" at any opportunity...why let facts get in the way?

You people amaze me at times by your sheer capacity to find negatives in anything...anything & everthing associated with UNT in any way, and in your ability to attempy mightily to turn a "silk purse" into a "sow's ear".

But...only at North Texas!

Edited February 9, 2015 by KRAM1

ChristopherRyanWilkes · February 9, 2015

Do any of you people even know how law school accreditation is achieved? Appears not from your posts.

Yes. Who mentioned accreditation outside of me when I said the number of law schools closing right now and the concern about decreased enrollment could effect accreditation? There's a committee and the current legal climate can certainly impact their decision when deciding on accreditation. There's a provisional period and then the ABA decides. Bar passage and employment statistics are factors in their final decision.