Vito Says Thompson is HOF-Worthy

Mean Green 93-98 · January 19, 2015

I thought if people were going to discuss it, it would be better done in a thread other than one celebrating a new commit to the program.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/01/the-case-for-thompson-as-a-hall-of-famer.html/

If there were a HOF for single-game performances, I would no doubt vote for Thompson's HOD Bowl performance to be in it. But I'm not convinced that single-game performance makes his career a HOF career. Remember that 76 teams now play in bowl games every year. That simply was not the case in the 60's and 70's, when a team could go 9-2 or 10-1, with quality wins on the resume, and still be left out of a bowl game.

golfingomez · January 19, 2015

geezus christ

if the voting were done purely on 'amount of time dedicated to Derek Thompson on Gomeangreen.com', he would be a first ballot HOF-er...

who cares!!!

MeanGreenTexan · January 19, 2015

Page 77 of this will tell you all you need to know:
http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ntex/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2014-15/misc_non_event/2014FBallFactBook.pdf

Consider the other names and if they're in the HOF. If they are, I don't see why he's not.

If I had to make a call one way or the other, he's in. As maddening as he was much of the time, the numbers don't lie.

UNT90 · January 19, 2015

geezus christ

if the voting were done purely on 'amount of time dedicated to Derek Thompson on Gomeangreen.com', he would be a first ballot HOF-er...

who cares!!!

Lol. The off-season, which usually rolls around after basketball season, has came early the last 2 years.

Thanks RV.

Stix · January 19, 2015

I'm moving this from the Kevin Dillman thread...

For some on this board every thread is like playing 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon...except it's normally 2 degrees of Derek Thompson

lol.

Peyton Manning. Go.

Well...

Peyton Manning is QB for the Denver Broncos

Brock Berglund was QB for Valor Christian HS in Highlands Ranch CO, which is a suburb of Denver

Derek Thompson beat out Brock Berglund for the Mean Green starting QB job in 2012

Rudy · January 19, 2015

Peyton Manning plays for the Denver Broncos. Derek Thompson once signed with the Denver Broncos.

UNT90 · January 19, 2015

Peyton Manning plays for the Denver Broncos. Derek Thompson once signed with the Denver Broncos.

Impressive.

Stix · January 19, 2015

Peyton Manning plays for the Denver Broncos. Derek Thompson once signed with the Denver Broncos.

I don't recall... OK, you win!

EDIT: I didn't even think to google "Derek Thompson Broncos", but there it is:

Edited January 19, 2015 by Stix

Cooley · January 20, 2015

Derek Thompson, (and all other quarterbacks in the modern era) should be putting up larger numbers based on the spread offenses which didn't exist back in the day. Before Texas Tech (college) and Southlake Carroll (High School) and others, most schools ran the ball 60% -70% of the time. You CAN NOT use passing statistics to compare or rank quarterbacks from different era's. If anyone insists on using passing statistics you must include their INT's as well.

Dan McCarney is as conservative as they come but he was more conservative with Derek Thompson. For 3 years, Derek was a turnover, sack or bad throw waiting to happen. This coach did not trust him and this board rightfully bashed him after most games. How in the world is he now a "Hall of Famer" is beyond me. Using only passing stats (in rankings) as an argument is not fair or accurate journalism. Any 4-year starter at UNT will probably surpass all other previous QB's. No one should be put in the Hall just because we've had poor quarterbacking since. Dan McCarney can't recruit.

I think Ken Washington, Jordan Case and Steve Ramsey are the only legit Hall of Fame quarterbacks (By not lowering the standards) These guys, and others, only played 10 games. Some played more with the DII playoffs. For the most part, there were only a handful of D1 bowls. With the addition of about 25 more bowls, teams are bowl eligible with 6 wins, (.500 record). Derek Thompson is Glen Ray and Ken Smith. 3th and 4th string quarterbacks back in the mid-70's. They rarely saw the field. No way in hell does Derek belong in this company.

Don't mean to beat up on Derek Thompson. He had an above average senior year. He, in my opinion, is just not Hall of Famer worthy. We didn't win a conference championship and ended up beating a bad UNLV team. (In one of the 25-28 bowl games in 2014. Their coach was fired the next year.

Please UNT, let's not lower this thing any further!

Edited January 20, 2015 by Cooley

H-towngreen · January 20, 2015

He had 7 games of throwing for 300+ yds in an era when the 300 yd passing game is the norm. 7 games in his 3+ years of starts!

And everything Cooley and BillySee have said.

Edited January 20, 2015 by H-towngreen

BillySee58 · January 20, 2015

Derek Thompson, (and all other quarterbacks in the modern era) should be putting up larger numbers based on the spread offenses which didn't exist back in the day. Before Texas Tech (college) and Southlake Carroll (High School) and others, most schools ran the ball 60% -70% of the time. You CAN NOT use passing statistics to compare or rank quarterbacks from different era's. If anyone insists on using passing statistics you must include their INT's as well.

Dan McCarney is as conservative as they come but he was more conservative with Derek Thompson. For 3 years, Derek was a turnover, sack or bad throw waiting to happen. This coach did not trust him and this board rightfully bashed him after most games. How in the world is he now a "Hall of Famer" is beyond me. Using only passing stats (in rankings) as an argument is not fair or accurate journalism. Any 4-year starter at UNT will probably surpass all other previous QB's. No one should be put in the Hall just because we've had poor quarterbacking since. Dan McCarney can't recruit.

I think Ken Washington, Jordan Case and Steve Ramsey are the only legit Hall of Fame quarterbacks (By not lowering the standards) These guys, and others, only played 10 games. Some played more with the DII playoffs. For the most part, there were only a handful of D1 bowls. With the addition of about 25 more bowls, teams are bowl eligible with 6 wins, (.500 record). Derek Thompson is Glen Ray and Ken Smith. 3th and 4th string quarterbacks back in the mid-70's. They rarely saw the field. No way in hell does Derek belong in this company.

Don't mean to beat up on Derek Thompson. He had an above average senior year. He, in my opinion, is just not Hall of Famer worthy. We didn't win a conference championship and ended up beating a bad UNLV team. (In one of the 25-28 bowl games in 2014. Their coach was fired the next year.

Please UNT, let's not lower this thing any further!

Yeah, this is where I stand. Think about it this way: if you let him in then you're setting a bar for what is HOF worthy. A 3-year starter who had 42 career TD passes.

Imagine if we get a coach who runs a modern offense and is actually a good college coach. A 3-year starter would probably have over 60 touchdowns. Obliterating Thompson's stats like that would mean they'd only need maybe 1 bowl appearance. Easily achievable.

A 2-year starter could have a 20 TD pass season and a 23 TD pass season and surpass Thompson. They could say "hey, he's in the HOF and it only took me 2 years to surpass the numbers he put up in 3."

Which could make getting HOF honors less of a prestigious title if we're having to let every multi-year starter at QB in. He did a great job and will be remembered for a long time. But that can't be all you need to get in to the HOF.

UNT90 · January 20, 2015

Except DT didn't run the spread and wasn't allowed to air it out like all the other QBs because his head coach's offensive philosophy is firmly rooted in the 1970s.

When allowed to air it out, DT proved what he could do.

Running on first down 70% of the time greatly hindered DTs effectiveness.

UNT90 · January 20, 2015

when the 300 yd passing game is the norm.

The norm where?

Do you forget who coaches this team and the offensive philosophy he throws out there?

DT's first game under coach Mac produced ONE first down throw the entire first half as FIU was kicking our ass. ONE!

How many 300 yard games did we have last year with the same staff? That is the question that should have been asked.

I guess Air Force will never have a QB in the hall of fame with that triple option they run.

So dumb.

Edited January 20, 2015 by UNT90

BillySee58 · January 20, 2015

Except DT didn't run the spread and wasn't allowed to air it out like all the other QBs because his head coach's offensive philosophy is firmly rooted in the 1970s.
When allowed to air it out, DT proved what he could do.
Running on first down 70% of the time greatly hindered DTs effectiveness.

That's not a point that can win an argument against a QB with noticeably better numbers with.

"You had more TD passes, a better TD/Int ratio, and a better winning percentage but he gets in and you don't because he played in a worse offense."

UNT90 · January 20, 2015

That's not a point that can win an argument against a QB with noticeably better numbers with.
"You had more TD passes, a better TD/Int ratio, and a better winning percentage but he gets in and you don't because he played in a worse offense."

This is a program that has been to 5 bowl games in the modern era, winning only 2. DT was the bowl MVP in one of those 2 bowl wins.

This is a program that has never won 10 games in a season. The closest they came was 9 in DT's senior season.

Of course the bar is lower here than at other institutions.

Jeez guys.

And yes, the offense you play in ABSOLUTELY determines the numbers you put up. DT was often not allowed to throw until he was in 3rd and long situations. That's a huge difference from a QB lining up 5 wide on 1st down every single time.

I don't know how some people don't get this.

Edited January 20, 2015 by UNT90

BillySee58 · January 20, 2015

This is a program that has been to 5 bowl games in the modern era, winning only 2. DT was the bowl MVP in one of those 2 bowl wins.
This is a program that has never won 10 games in a season. The closest they came was 9 in DT's senior season.
Of course the bar is lower here than at other institutions.
Jeez guys.
And yes, the offense you play in ABSOLUTELY determines the numbers you put up. DT was often not allowed to throw until he was in 3rd and long situations. That's a huge difference from a QB lining up 5 wide on 1st down every single time.
I don't know how some people don't get this.

But I don't see how you can tell that to every QB who throws more than 42 TD passes and wins games. Which, if we were to get a good coach with a modern offense, could be almost every multi-year starter at QB. And if they all surpass those numbers you can't sit there and say they're not HOF worthy when they're surpassing a modern-day HOF QBs numbers. I understand what you're saying, but that's not a good enough argument to include one guy and exclude others who surpass his numbers. Just because they had a better offense to play in.

Mean Green 93-98 · January 20, 2015

. . . ended up beating a bad UNLV team. (In one of the 25-28 bowl games in 2014. Their coach was fired the next year.

There are 39, actually.

H-towngreen · January 20, 2015

So 90's and Vito reason for DT to be in. NT quarterbacks have been the biggest pile of turds in the NCAA over the last 60 yrs and DT wasn't the smelliest of that pile so let him in!

And do you watch football?! Dudes throw over 500 yds on a weekly basis! So yes, a 300 yd game these days means jack. DTs senior season he averaged 30 attempts a game. And 31 attempts his JR season. Do don't tell me DT didn't throw the ball. This isn't Scott hall throwing the ball 12 times a game.

MeanMag · January 20, 2015

Derek Thompson should be admitted only after Giovanni Vizza is.

UNT90 · January 20, 2015

So 90's and Vito reason for DT to be in. NT quarterbacks have been the biggest pile of turds in the NCAA over the last 60 yrs and DT wasn't the smelliest of that pile so let him in!
And do you watch football?! Dudes throw over 500 yds on a weekly basis! So yes, a 300 yd game these days means jack. DTs senior season he averaged 30 attempts a game. And 31 attempts his JR season. Do don't tell me DT didn't throw the ball. This isn't Scott hall throwing the ball 12 times a game.

Yes, and about 25 of those attempts per game were in 2nd and long and 3 and long situations.

Because we were going to run the football on first down, by God.

If you don't understand that you can't compare different offensive systems, then you just don't understand football.

UNT90 · January 20, 2015

But I don't see how you can tell that to every QB who throws more than 42 TD passes and wins games. Which, if we were to get a good coach with a modern offense, could be almost every multi-year starter at QB. And if they all surpass those numbers you can't sit there and say they're not HOF worthy when they're surpassing a modern-day HOF QBs numbers. I understand what you're saying, but that's not a good enough argument to include one guy and exclude others who surpass his numbers. Just because they had a better offense to play in.

I'm quite sure there are multiple QBs in OU's hall of fame that may have thrown the ball 30 times an entire season. Should they be thrown out because OU now runs a different offensive system that emphasizes the pass?

Look, the ultimate measure of a QB should be leadership and winning at an outstanding level in relation to the university he attends. DT was a first ballot hall of famer in both these areas.

H-towngreen · January 20, 2015

You make me lolz

Mean Green 93-98 · January 20, 2015

Derek Thompson should be admitted only after Giovanni Vizza is.

Vizza might be the best QB we've had since Mitch Maher. . . . But I'd vote for Derek Thompson over Vizza, and for reasons other than ability or statistics. As a matter of fact, I'd vote for McNulty long before Vizza.

BillySee58 · January 20, 2015

I'm quite sure there are multiple QBs in OU's hall of fame that may have thrown the ball 30 times an entire season. Should they be thrown out because OU now runs a different offensive system that emphasizes the pass?

Look, the ultimate measure of a QB should be leadership and winning at an outstanding level in relation to the university he attends. DT was a first ballot hall of famer in both these areas.

Those QBs (if they do actually exist) probably played in an era where that was normal and was a long time ago. DT played his last game in the year 2014.

Look, I'm not going to make it seem like I refuse to let people vote DT in or I'll be pissed if he gets in. If he has a chance to get in the HOF then that's great. I'm not telling people don't vote for him.

All I'm saying is that if we get to the point where we should be IMO, and where a lot of G5 schools, with no more resources than us, already are, we could churn out QB after QB to surpass these numbers. Both quantity-type stats (TDs, yards, etc) and efficiency-type stats (completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, etc). And if you let DT in, then you have to let them in as well. Even if they are playing in a better offense. If North Texas is okay with that, then cool. Having QB after QB having better numbers than DT would definitely be a good thing, in the grand scheme of things. HOF discussion aside.

UNT90 · January 20, 2015

Those QBs (if they do actually exist) probably played in an era where that was normal and was a long time ago. DT played his last game in the year 2014.
Look, I'm not going to make it seem like I refuse to let people vote DT in or I'll be pissed if he gets in. If he has a chance to get in the HOF then that's great. I'm not telling people don't vote for him.
All I'm saying is that if we get to the point where we should be IMO, and where a lot of G5 schools, with no more resources than us, already are, we could churn out QB after QB to surpass these numbers. Both quantity-type stats (TDs, yards, etc) and efficiency-type stats (completion percentage, TD/INT ratio, etc). And if you let DT in, then you have to let them in as well. Even if they are playing in a better offense. If North Texas is okay with that, then cool. Having QB after QB having better numbers than DT would definitely be a good thing, in the grand scheme of things. HOF discussion aside.

We have shown no ability to churn out QB after QB to surpass these numbers. Hell, we have shown an INABILITY to churn out one QB to MATCH these numbers.

This is the UNT Hall of Fame, not the Boise St., Baylor, UT, or OU hall of fame. By UNT standards, DT is a first ballot HOFer.