MGB: Kevin Dillman to UNT

MeanGreenZen · January 17, 2015

No disrespect to you or your source, but a lot of this is incorrect. You don't take a qb commitment 10 months before national signing day if you haven't gotten a real good look at him, which is what Nebraska did. Dillman threw live or had scouts at his games for almost every school that offered, including Nebraska. Head coach Bo Pelini got fired, so they got a new head coach and staff. They didn't want Dillman. It's not that Nebraska the program decided "never mind". Pelini stopped recruiting quarterbacks and was set with Dillman as the qb of his class until the day he got fired.
Also, I don't know whose analysis that is, but Dillman has great feet and the west coast offense they ran at La Mirada showcased it, with all the 5-step drops and rollouts from under center. I was looking at Dillman's 247 profile last night after he committed and they agreed. They gave his feet a 9/10 rating. I understand a difference in opinion, but to say he has terrible feet is really a stretch. He also doesn't have a great release, but it really isn't that slow. One of the good things about him being from Sweden is that he didn't grow up playing baseball. It's not uncommon that qbs who grew up playing baseball will have longer, winding releases like a pitcher. Which many of them were, like Tim Tebow and Derek Thompson among others who did have this type of release. His problem is that he tends to short arm throws which can lead to under throwing, and it did on one play in particular in his highlights.
Mechanically I think he's better than any other high school qb we've signed under Mccarney. Not great, and he certainly needs reps like crazy. In his highlights he almost never checked down. Things like that which you need a lot of reps, some of which you need physical reps to get down. But that's an easy fix.
As for Walsh, I do wonder the same thing when I hear him talk. But at the same time many D1 coaches believed he could be a D1 qb, including Jimbo Fisher (head coach of 2013 Heisman trophy winner Jameis Winston) and Gus Malzahn (OC of 2010 Heisman trophy winner Cam Newton).
Dillman was recovering from a torn Achilles all spring semester so Walsh didn't have that much time to work with him, and Dillman couldn't fully participate in spring drills. Then he was ruled ineligible for the spring so he really didn't have any time to develop him then either. With the way everything happened I also read Walsh's comments as basically saying at this point his chances of anyone giving him a shot at qb are gone. So he's just going to have to be a tight end.
I wonder what Chico thinks about Dillman. Going off of the other high school qbs we've brought in I can't imagine he's not beggin for the coaches to give him a chance to develop Dillman. It'll be interesting to see how the logjam unfolds. If Chumley is moved to tight end after spring/before fall camp, and we see Greer and/or Dajon transfer then I wouldn't be surprised to see Dillman come in as a qb. But it does appear tight end is the plan. So we'll see.

Well I hope you are right. Your analysis on Dillman in the previous thread is excellent and I was really excited about him but still couldn't reconcile how he went from a 5-star recruit to having no active D1 offers (I mean an Achilles injury isn't the end of the world for QB's and a lot of coaches get fired and usually, if a recruit is worthy, the next coach is scrambling to save the commitment) so I reached out to a friend inside the Guyer program who gave me that scoop on the kid. I was also told that even if Dillman had been eligible at Guyer he had already been relegated to backup QB behind Robinson, although their is no shame in that as Robinson is considered the bluest of blue chip prospects and the best high school QB Walsh has ever coached.

Green Crazy · January 17, 2015

No disrespect to you or your source, but a lot of this is incorrect. You don't take a qb commitment 10 months before national signing day if you haven't gotten a real good look at him, which is what Nebraska did. Dillman threw live or had scouts at his games for almost every school that offered, including Nebraska. Head coach Bo Pelini got fired, so they got a new head coach and staff. They didn't want Dillman. It's not that Nebraska the program decided "never mind". Pelini stopped recruiting quarterbacks and was set with Dillman as the qb of his class until the day he got fired.
Also, I don't know whose analysis that is, but Dillman has great feet and the west coast offense they ran at La Mirada showcased it, with all the 5-step drops and rollouts from under center. I was looking at Dillman's 247 profile last night after he committed and they agreed. They gave his feet a 9/10 rating. I understand a difference in opinion, but to say he has terrible feet is really a stretch. He also doesn't have a great release, but it really isn't that slow. One of the good things about him being from Sweden is that he didn't grow up playing baseball. It's not uncommon that qbs who grew up playing baseball will have longer, winding releases like a pitcher. Which many of them were, like Tim Tebow and Derek Thompson among others who did have this type of release. His problem is that he tends to short arm throws which can lead to under throwing, and it did on one play in particular in his highlights.
Mechanically I think he's better than any other high school qb we've signed under Mccarney. Not great, and he certainly needs reps like crazy. In his highlights he almost never checked down. Things like that which you need a lot of reps, some of which you need physical reps to get down. But that's an easy fix.
As for Walsh, I do wonder the same thing when I hear him talk. But at the same time many D1 coaches believed he could be a D1 qb, including Jimbo Fisher (head coach of 2013 Heisman trophy winner Jameis Winston) and Gus Malzahn (OC of 2010 Heisman trophy winner Cam Newton).
Dillman was recovering from a torn Achilles all spring semester so Walsh didn't have that much time to work with him, and Dillman couldn't fully participate in spring drills. Then he was ruled ineligible for the spring so he really didn't have any time to develop him then either. With the way everything happened I also read Walsh's comments as basically saying at this point his chances of anyone giving him a shot at qb are gone. So he's just going to have to be a tight end.
I wonder what Chico thinks about Dillman. Going off of the other high school qbs we've brought in I can't imagine he's not beggin for the coaches to give him a chance to develop Dillman. It'll be interesting to see how the logjam unfolds. If Chumley is moved to tight end after spring/before fall camp, and we see Greer and/or Dajon transfer then I wouldn't be surprised to see Dillman come in as a qb. But it does appear tight end is the plan. So we'll see.

In his recruiting thread you wondered why I thought he had some issues passing and the only thing I didn't like about him was his throwing motion which you mentioned above. It looks like he pushes the ball and doesn't use his upper body rotation as much as he should. This is obviously hampered because of the short time he's been playing the position. That being said, he looked really sharp in his film, but highlights are just that, highlights.

I would love to give him a shot, but it seems like that's not the plan. If he stays at the h-back/te position I think he brings the tools of a James Casey of rice a few years back. And if anyone remembers him, then you know how great of a college player he was and why they created packages just for him.

This signing is huge regardless of where he lines up! Welcome to the Mean Green, Kevin!

BillySee58 · January 17, 2015

Well I hope you are right. Your analysis on Dillman in the previous thread is excellent and I was really excited about him but still couldn't reconcile how he went from a 5-star recruit to having no active D1 offers (I mean an Achilles injury isn't the end of the world for QB's and a lot of coaches get fired and usually, if a recruit is worthy, the next coach is scrambling to save the commitment) so I reached out to a friend inside the Guyer program who gave me that scoop on the kid. I was also told that even if Dillman had been eligible at Guyer he had already been relegated to backup QB behind Robinson, although their is no shame in that as Robinson is considered the bluest of blue chip prospects and the best high school QB Walsh has ever coached.

Well I do appreciate the insight. This situation is just so incredibly unique, it's really hard to explain. Not only is Robinsons a great prospect, but even though he was just a sophomore I would argue that he's further along in his developmental stage than Dillman was. Because Robinson started his freshman year at that school in Saginaw and probably grew up playing QB over here. While Dillman did not get to grow up playing QB in the states, played QB sparingly as a freshman and sophomore, and had his first season as a full-time starter his junior year cut short.

I just don't see how he's any more of a risk than the guys we have been bringing in, while certainly with a higher ceiling. I don't think our recent high school qb signees under Mccarney would've beaten out Robinson either. Robinson also beat out David Moore, who then transferred to a school over by Atlanta and has since picked up offers from South Alabama, Marshall, and Oregon State.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-David-Moore-164601

Hopefully we just get Robinson here in a couple of years and he throws TDs all day to Dillman

MeanGreenTeeth · January 17, 2015

Guyer coach John Walsh has coached Colby Freeman (A&M), Kirby Freeman (Miami), Jarrett Lee (LSU), JW Walsh (OSU) Jerrod Heard (Texas) .... He knows what a D1 QB looks like ...

That's an interesting list of names. All were pretty highly thought of in high school, but none really had (or are having) particularly good DI careers (though a few had their moments).

MeanGreenZen · January 17, 2015

That's an interesting list of names. All were pretty highly thought of in high school, but none really had (or are having) particularly good DI careers (though a few had their moments).

Most HS coaches work their entire career and if they are lucky they have one quarterback go on to play at a P5 college. It is pretty remarkable for one coach to have SIX guys like that. Now none of those guys have had a career like Vince Young or Matt Leinart (yet) but the only real bust is Colby Freeman. Kirby Freeman signed an NFL contract, Jarrett Lee started 18 games at LSU, JW Walsh has been pretty darn good when healthy and still has another year left at OSU while Heard and Robinson still have their whole careers ahead of them.

TheWestie · January 17, 2015

Robinson is gonna be something special when he's a junior or senior.

Right now yes he is talented and physically gifted. He looks like he's 19 and could start at a G5 school.

But once you see him actually do things, you remember how old he is, and that he is just learning how to drive. He still has a LOT of growing up to do.

Brett Vito · January 17, 2015

MGB thoughts on Dillman:

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/2015/01/thoughts-on-dillman-landing-at-unt.html/

Cerebus · January 18, 2015

I guess you'd need to define "impact." Andrew Power was a very good blocking tight end, and made an impact in our run game. If you are specifically talking about receiving, Drew Miller had far more receptions, yards, and TDs than Muenchow, as did Power per year.

None of those guys are Andy Blount.

Drew Miller had 463 YDS and 5 TD for his entire career, Andrew Power (in two years) had 322 YD and 2 TD.

Blount had 472 YDS and 5 TD in just his senior year.

We haven't had a receiving TE like Blount since he left. He did benefit from playing in Dickey's system (that often used 2 TEs) and was paired with great blocking TEs like Muenchow and Randy Gardner.

Cooley · January 18, 2015

Just when I think that UNT's Hall of Fame couldn't get watered down further, Vito drops Derek Thompson's name as a sure bet. Hell, if Josh Greer reappears next year and this teams becomes bowl eligible, he's in.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Cooley

MeanGreenZen · January 18, 2015

Does winning a bowl game MVP make you a Hall of Famer? Because that is the only above average accomplishment in Thompson's career. Bowl game MVP alone doesn't make you a Hall of Famer anywhere else, but maybe at North Texas... Should Larry Brown be in the Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor just because he won a Super Bowl MVP?

Greendylan · January 18, 2015

Does winning a bowl game MVP make you a Hall of Famer? Because that is the only above average accomplishment in Thompson's career. Bowl game MVP alone doesn't make you a Hall of Famer anywhere else, but maybe at North Texas... Should Larry Brown be in the Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor just because he won a Super Bowl MVP?

If that had been the only Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl appearance, then yes.

UNT90 · January 18, 2015

You would think last year would have made some people appreciate DW. Some just can't admit when they are wrong.

I don't know if winning a bowl game MVP makes you HOFer, but I know deserving HOFer Scott Hall doesn't have one. Or a bowl game win for that matter.

I also know that was only UNT's 2nd bowl victory in the modern era of college football.

And I know DT holds a lot of UNT passing records.

So...

UNT90 · January 18, 2015

Does winning a bowl game MVP make you a Hall of Famer? Because that is the only above average accomplishment in Thompson's career. Bowl game MVP alone doesn't make you a Hall of Famer anywhere else, but maybe at North Texas... Should Larry Brown be in the Dallas Cowboys Ring of Honor just because he won a Super Bowl MVP?

Larry Brown isn't a QB.

Name a Dallas QB that won a Superbowl and isn't in the ring of honor.

Not a SB MVP. Just won a Superbowl.

Edited January 18, 2015 by UNT90

Mean Green 93-98 · January 18, 2015

So . . . Kevin Dillman. Nice recruit, no?

Got5onIt · January 18, 2015

Nice pickup. Nothing wrong with grabbing athletes. They'll find a spot for him on the field.

Ben Gooding · January 18, 2015

You would think last year would have made some people appreciate DW. Some just can't admit when they are wrong.
I don't know if winning a bowl game MVP makes you HOFer, but I know deserving HOFer Scott Hall doesn't have one. Or a bowl game win for that matter.
I also know that was only UNT's 2nd bowl victory in the modern era of college football.
And I know DT holds a lot of UNT passing records.
So...

Oh yeah? Which passing records? STFU about DT. Dude was an average QB, at best.

MEANGREENCOACH2 · January 18, 2015

So excited about this young man deciding to play for UNT. Hopefully we see the benefits of him playing here for years to come. Since he played JV thoso kids will be graduating in roughly 2 years maybe we can have some pull with them.

UNT90 · January 18, 2015

Oh yeah? Which passing records? STFU about DT. Dude was an average QB, at best.

Always count on you for an intelligent conversation....

greenminer · January 18, 2015

I don't think any TEs since Blount contributed to the bball program

casual fan · January 18, 2015

Did you ever wonder about how good a player could have been at a different position?

Many players never reach their full potential because they could play well enough at a different spot.

Wasn't all pro Brian Waters a TE in college?

Dillman can probably make it as a QB, TE, DE, or even a LB.

I hope he and the coaches find the right spot as he could be really good.

If he needs time to develop as a QB for example, that's what a redshirt is for.

FirefightnRick · January 18, 2015

Did you ever wonder about how good a player could have been at a different position?
Many players never reach their full potential because they could play well enough at a different spot.
Wasn't all pro Brian Waters a TE in college?
Dillman can probably make it as a QB, TE, DE, or even a LB.
I hope he and the coaches find the right spot as he could be really good.
If he needs time to develop as a QB for example, that's what a redshirt is for.

Exactly. People seem to forget who we are and our current QB position. At this point, for all we know Spongebob Square Pants could come in and win the starting QB position?

And look at Boynkin at TCU. One OC had him at QB, then WR. Another puts him back at QB and now he's going to be a preseason fav for the Hiesman this coming season. So you just never know and it's shortsighted to claim as Vito did that it's too late or whatever to change him back to QB as an 18 year old.

As for tightends and how we have an amazing knack for wasting talent and never using that position as a weapon. Look no further than Marcus Smith. 15 total catches last year. And with those 15 catches he caught 6 touchdowns. That's a hell of a good average. One would think we would use this kid as a weapon like Rice and Tulsa has done to us over the years?

So yeah, Mac, take a high school coach and a beat reporter's advice and go ahead and make this Dillman kid a Tighend, never giving him a shot at QB, Defensive end, linebacker or whatever? That would be about par for the course around here.

Rick

Edited January 18, 2015 by FirefightnRick

H-towngreen · January 18, 2015

Exactly what worries me Rick. Marcus Smith should be a star. He has all the tools. We just don't use him

FirefightnRick · January 18, 2015

Exactly what worries me Rick. Marcus Smith should be a star. He has all the tools. We just don't use him

Yessir!

I know I quote him a lot around here but our pal SUMG seems think Marcus will be our next Olawale. Rarely used, in fact Mac couldn't figure out a way to even get him on the field. And three years later he's the Oakland Raiders "Man Of The Year" recipient.

Just makes you shake your head doesn't it?

Rick

NT03 · January 18, 2015

Yessir!
I know I quote him a lot around here but our pal SUMG seems think Marcus will be our next Olawale. Rarely used, in fact Mac couldn't figure out a way to even get him on the field. And three years later he's the Oakland Raiders "Man Of The Year" recipient.
Just makes you shake your head doesn't it?
Rick

I know there for along time Gary Patterson would sign several kids in each class who played mainly QB In HS. He said HS coaches would always put their best athlete in that position because they wanted the ball in their hands.. GP would sign these kids & then move them all over the field. He just wanted athletes... I'm sure he still does this to a point , but back then it's how they were able to compete with the big boys while being in CUSA/MWC

BillySee58 · January 18, 2015

Exactly. People seem to forget who we are and our current QB position. At this point, for all we know Spongebob Square Pants could come in and win the starting QB position?
And look at Boynkin at TCU. One OC had him at QB, then WR. Another puts him back at QB and now he's going to be a preseason fav for the Hiesman this coming season. So you just never know and it's shortsighted to claim as Vito did that it's too late or whatever to change him back to QB as an 18 year old.
As for tightends and how we have an amazing knack for wasting talent and never using that position as a weapon. Look no further than Marcus Smith. 15 total catches last year. And with those 15 catches he caught 6 touchdowns. That's a hell of a good average. One would think we would use this kid as a weapon like Rice and Tulsa has done to us over the years?
So yeah, Mac, take a high school coach and a beat reporter's advice and go ahead and make this Dillman kid a Tighend, never giving him a shot at QB, Defensive end, linebacker or whatever? That would be about par for the course around here.
Rick

Yeah, that's kind of how I'm looking at the situation on our team.

We have a former 5-star qb who his high school coached in California raved about and Jimbo Fisher, Gus Malzahn, Butch Jones, and 15 other FBS head coaches believed could play QB for them. But Coach Walsh at Guyer says no, so disregard all of their opinions. Mark Richt didn't think Nick Marshall could be a QB, but Malzahn took him at Auburn and made it to the national championship game with him. Even if they didn't have a traditional offense. Malzahn also believed Dillman could play QB for him.

Meanwhile, even if we hit a homerun on JUCO QB Damarcus Smith, we still have nothing but question marks for our long-term QB options. RS Sophomore Dajon Williams has had commitment and work ethic issues, and has really struggled to capitize on his talent. He also only had one other offer, from an FCS school (Montana). RS Freshman Connor Means was here last spring but wasn't able to throw his name in the mix for a weak and open QB competition. And he was a below average high school QB, completing under 50% of his passes and throwing 10 TDs to 9 interceptions as a high school senior. And incoming Caleb Chumley just does not have the film that suggests he'll stick at QB. Which is why, of his 12 offers, us and ULM were the only ones to offer him a chance at QB.

Maybe a young QB steps up and Dillman makes a great tight end. But Mccarney's evaluation of QB recruits since he's been here is not nearly enough for me to feel ease and not question his decision if he truly doesn't give Dillman a shot at QB. And, as someone has mentioned, Coach Walsh's QBs actual production once they got to college doesn't necessarily make me feel like he should be the end all, be all when it comes to predicting whether or not a player will be or won't be a good D1 QB. Especially when their opinion differs from the other coaches I previously mentioned.

Edited January 18, 2015 by BillySee58