Abbott lays out Texas Tier I Playing Field

Harry · January 10, 2015

http://www.texasblueprint.com/2014/09/greg-abbott-unveils-higher-education-plan/

quote:"Finally as much as Texas rightfully brags that we're better than California, there is one area where California ranks above Texas. Four of the top ten ranked public universities are in California. None are in Texas. That must change. We have the resources, the business partners and the people to elevate higher education in Texas to the best in the nation. We just need commitment. I'll make that commitment.

The flagship universities at UT and Texas A&M should be two of the top three public universities in the country. The University of Houston, Texas Tech and UT-Dallas should join their ranks as top tier public universities. Texas State University, The University of North Texas, plus UTSA, UT-Arlington and UT-El Paso all are emerging research universities poised for greatness.

I will work with all of them to recruit the best talent, to develop partnerships with the private sector and to elevate their national research standing."

oldguystudent · January 10, 2015

Just food for thought. Per US News, six of the top eleven public universities are University of California campuses. Of those six, only Berkeley and UCLA have FBS football programs. Add Davis with FCS, and the remaining three have none at all.

UNT90 · January 10, 2015

If you mean it, governor, there is some dead weight that needs to go.

Eagle1855 · January 11, 2015

That font is maddening.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · January 12, 2015

Don't really like the group he puts us with. I would think with our size we should be up there with UoH, UT-D and Tech which he mentions as the most likely for tier-1 status. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that Texas Tech has better academics than North Texas.

Edited January 12, 2015 by ChristopherRyanWilkes

Eagle1855 · January 12, 2015

Don't really like the group he puts us with. I would think with our size we should be up there with UoH, UT-D and Tech which he mentions as the most likely for tier-1 status. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that Texas Tech has better academics than North Texas.

I agree, completely. But perception = reality. And we aren't perceived to be in the same class as the aforementioned. Our pithy endowment, by comparison, supports that.

So UH, UTD, and Tech have the inside track. Let's hope they make the jump swiftly and that we're in a place to follow suit shortly thereafter.

Edited January 12, 2015 by Eagle1855

ChristopherRyanWilkes · January 12, 2015

I agree, completely. But perception = reality. And we aren't perceived to be in the same class as the aforementioned. Our pithy endowment, by comparison, supports that.

So UH, UTD, and Tech have the inside track. Let's hope they make the jump swiftly and that we're in a place to follow suit shortly thereafter.

To me, there is no excuse why our endowment can't be at or above the level of at least UT-Dallas. They have more than twice the endowment that we do, while we barely squeak past UTA with ours.

MeanGreenWithEnvy · January 12, 2015

To me, there is no excuse why our endowment can't be at or above the level of at least UT-Dallas. They have more than twice the endowment that we do, while we barely squeak past UTA with ours.

I approach this as a research computing professional who has a network of friends and acquaintances who do similar jobs at other public universities, private universities, and several national laboratories. I don't think it's a good idea to compare ourselves to UTD in any way; they are a very different institution than we are, especially when it comes to research and grant activity. From their inception, they were a science-focused, research-driven institution. If the current mantras in software engineering and software development were around in the 60s, they would have been the ideal of what it means to build a lean product. That focus and the research successes they've enjoyed through the years attracts money.

Comparing us to UTD is, in my opinion, like comparing the University of Massachusetts to MIT.* We're very different institutions with different histories, different student bodies, different strengths in our undergraduate programs, different strengths in our graduate programs, and different areas of high research activity.

* If you really want to see a mind-blowing gap in endowments, check out UMass vs. MIT!

ChristopherRyanWilkes · January 12, 2015

I approach this as a research computing professional who has a network of friends and acquaintances who do similar jobs at other public universities, private universities, and several national laboratories. I don't think it's a good idea to compare ourselves to UTD in any way; they are a very different institution than we are, especially when it comes to research and grant activity. From their inception, they were a science-focused, research-driven institution. If the current mantras in software engineering and software development were around in the 60s, they would have been the ideal of what it means to build a lean product. That focus and the research successes they've enjoyed through the years attracts money.

Comparing us to UTD is, in my opinion, like comparing the University of Massachusetts to MIT.* We're very different institutions with different histories, different student bodies, different strengths in our undergraduate programs, different strengths in our graduate programs, and different areas of high research activity.

* If you really want to see a mind-blowing gap in endowments, check out UMass vs. MIT!

Good points -- I couldn't believe how much higher UofH and Texas Tech were in endowment than us too. Our endowment level still bugs me and I can't shake the feeling that it should be much higher for how big we are.

Harry · January 12, 2015

I approach this as a research computing professional who has a network of friends and acquaintances who do similar jobs at other public universities, private universities, and several national laboratories. I don't think it's a good idea to compare ourselves to UTD in any way; they are a very different institution than we are, especially when it comes to research and grant activity. From their inception, they were a science-focused, research-driven institution. If the current mantras in software engineering and software development were around in the 60s, they would have been the ideal of what it means to build a lean product. That focus and the research successes they've enjoyed through the years attracts money.

Comparing us to UTD is, in my opinion, like comparing the University of Massachusetts to MIT.* We're very different institutions with different histories, different student bodies, different strengths in our undergraduate programs, different strengths in our graduate programs, and different areas of high research activity.

* If you really want to see a mind-blowing gap in endowments, check out UMass vs. MIT!

Great analysis. My only issue is that it is not only the comparison of us to UTD but to Tech and Houston. Before we were included in the same breath as them, now we are not. Abott sees as as in the same area as Texas State, UTSA etc. Can't help but wonder if the accounting fiasco affected our place.

untjim1995 · January 12, 2015

Good points -- I couldn't believe how much higher UofH and Texas Tech were in endowment than us too. Our endowment level still bugs me and I can't shake the feeling that it should be much higher for how big we are.

A few things you have to remember about those other schools' endowments is that one, UTD, is basically the brainchild of Texas Instruments being based in Richardson, as well as the other technology giants that eventually found a home there in telecom corridor. UT-D flourished during that time, especially as the Metroplex soared in job growth over the previous 40 years. They graduated engineers, technology driven alumni, and other highly professionaled students. Tech had the SWC and Big XII to latch on to for building things up for them. Couldn't get into UT or A&M? Go to Tech--you can still watch your school play them, pay much less, and still be a part of good sized school and alumni base. Tech is West Texas' team--literally, they have nothing else. It sure helps to get teams like Texas, A&M, OU, OSU, KU, KSU, etc...to come to town to play you, especially with their traveling fanbase. Finally, UH had the SWC ties so they got some nice monied alums in the 70s and 80s to really back them, plus they have been the city's main university for decades, so even if it was a commuter school, they still had a huge enrolloment, as well as history of success in athletics to sell.

Literally nothing UNT has done in the same time frame can even come close to comparing to the other three I mentioned. As frustrating as it is, when you focused on educators and liberal arts majors, they don't usually make a ton of money. Plus, the "value" approach used here for decades has brought DFW students up here for a juco like experience--as soon as class was over, it was time to head home. Or as soon as the weekend hit, it was time to get out of town. Athletics had no appeal at all--it has never been cool to be a fan of UNT sports. Then you had the university blatantly keeping major donors from even being contactd by the athletic department.

I cannot see us reaching Tier One status without the state mandating us a part of it, thus keeping UNT leaders from interfering. That "value" label is never going to go away--the university's leaders love it because it brings in tons of students and the state likes showing its citizens that it has a state school in a large metro area that doesn't cost as much as the other schools in similar areas.

UNTFan23 · January 12, 2015

Great analysis. My only issue is that it is not only the comparison of us to UTD but to Tech and Houston. Before we were included in the same breath as them, now we are not. Abott sees as as in the same area as Texas State, UTSA etc. Can't help but wonder if the accounting fiasco affected our place.

I'd say it is more along the lines of not separating ourselves from schools like Texas State or UTSA. Alumni might see our peer institutions as Houston and to a lesser degree Texas Tech but policies makers don't (for whatever reason). University leadership needs to work hard at correcting that deficiency.