Texas Tech (12/29/14)

Andrew · December 30, 2014

i dont go to the games because i have more exciting things to do... like... anything...

tonight, UNT made 18 baskets, in 40 minutes... less than a bucket every two minutes...UNT committed more fouls than made shots...

Billy already articulated what i was going to say about JW... can Benford at least make the game exciting if we are going to lose half the time? let's just push the ball every possession...15 seconds to shoot... at least we would have a reason for missing so many shots at that point

I too would like to see a quicker paced offensive game to be honest. It would increase the tempo and give us a better chance to win. We are doing terrible with turn over to assist ratio because we are not looking to shoot off the pass. We hesitate and allow the defense to recoup. You cannot get assists if players do not shoot off the catch.

MeanMag · December 30, 2014

For almost 10 years our efficiency and points per possession has outpaced our opponents. Our points per game has always been in the upper echelon of the NCAA. These last 2 years has seen a shift back to what happened previous to 2001-2002.

I think it best if we all just ended this failed experiment as soon as possible to give the next guy a head start.

ColoradoEagle · December 30, 2014

It sends the wrong messages to recruits and the players. Recruits shown up and assume we have a terrible fan base while the players feel no love at home. It's not right!
Where is the logic here: I'm upset and want the AD and Coach fired (which cost money) so I'm not going to donate any money and refuse to buy tickets (that will help right....). I'm upset because the team is not winning so I am not going to show up at games so there will be no one there to support to the team (good call.... Makes complete sense..... Right!?). Every action that is made is counterintuitive to what is preached. If you want change then you don't sit idley by. You support them in hopes a change will be made. On top of it all that logic makes The education one gets at UNT look terrible as well. How childish are some people? I'm not getting my way so I am taking my ball and going home. A lot of people here need to grow up and stop acting immature and childish. Are thing showing well? Not exactly.... Could they be better.... Yes! How will they get better? It starts with support. It's not like refusing to go to games is going to 1. Suddenly make the players feel motivated or 2. Get cash to buyout a contract. We need butts in seats regardless of our record!

At any school that actually took athletics seriously, a 47% drop in attendance over the course of two and a half years would have the AD and coach both gone. Not at UNT. Forget current and potential fan support, what matters is making a cheap/bad hire and then riding it out as long as possible.

Your thought process here is very entitled. I will (hopefully) always be a Mean Green fan, but I'm not going to lay down my money for tickets and gas, and an hour roundtrip to support this crap. If I still lived in Denton, I might make a game or two out of boredom, but I don't blame anyone for not showing up. This is a terrible product, and does not deserve support. Maybe that's offensive in the era of participation awards, but it's the truth.

If you like going to watch this stuff, and feel good about supporting the team, that's great. Do you. I will vote with my wallet and stay home. The AD can count on a season ticket purchase from me as soon as Benford is toast 4.5 years into his 5 year contract.

Edited December 30, 2014 by ColoradoEagle

the green rokemi · December 30, 2014

Wonder how many real practices the team had over the break. I'm guessing none, just like they've had all year. Well, except for the ones where an outsider was watching of course. Then they had to pretend to practice

Green P1 · December 30, 2014

I know. I am hoping the rest of the team can follow suit.

How many suits are we talking?

Censored by Laurie · December 30, 2014

43% from the field. 13% from three. 19 turnovers to only 9 assists.

that's the kind of stat line that gets you a 15 point win against a Benford-coached team.

UNTFan23 · December 30, 2014

This low scoring game ties for the lowest scoring contest in the Benford era. Somehow we managed to win a game in 2012 45-40 against some school I don't remember -- Southeastern LA.

The stats are eerily similar:

56.3% on Free Throws

29.5% from the field

0-11 from behind the arc.

Only 45 points scored.

Luckily the other team was worse.

What is really scary is if Jordan has an off night (or worse, he gets hurt!) I really wonder who will step up because we might not make it to 40 points for the game if no one does.

EDIT: If you want to know the fewest points by a North Texas team ever -- "In 1963, the Mean Green beat Air Force 37-36 for the fewest points scored in a North Texas victory."

Edited December 30, 2014 by UNTFan23

Quoner · December 30, 2014

This low scoring game ties for the lowest scoring contest in the Benford era. Somehow we managed to win a game in 2012 45-40 against some school I don't remember -- Southeastern LA.

The stats are eerily similar:

56.3% on Free Throws

29.5% from the field

0-11 from behind the arc.

Only 45 points scored.

Luckily the other team was worse.

What is really scary is if Jordan has an off night (or worse, he gets hurt!) I really wonder who will step up because we might not make it to 40 points for the game if no one does.

EDIT: If you want to know the fewest points by a North Texas team ever -- "In 1963, the Mean Green beat Air Force 37-36 for the fewest points scored in a North Texas victory."

That was the last game I've been to (although even if I hadn't moved, that'd likely still be the case.) Right at the final buzzer, the then 3 year old projectile vomited all over what had been Tasty's seats. It was beautiful and poetic.

BillySee58 · December 30, 2014

This low scoring game ties for the lowest scoring contest in the Benford era. Somehow we managed to win a game in 2012 45-40 against some school I don't remember -- Southeastern LA.

The stats are eerily similar:
56.3% on Free Throws
29.5% from the field
0-11 from behind the arc.
Only 45 points scored.

Luckily the other team was worse.

What is really scary is if Jordan has an off night (or worse, he gets hurt!) I really wonder who will step up because we might not make it to 40 points for the game if no one does.

EDIT: If you want to know the fewest points by a North Texas team ever -- "In 1963, the Mean Green beat Air Force 37-36 for the fewest points scored in a North Texas victory."

Or even worse, when he's gone next year for good. It's just an absolute train wreck waiting to happen, once Benford can't rely on our last prized JJ recruit. Combs is our second-leading scorer at 9.2 points/game, but that's inflated by his 25 point and 17 point performances against our two non-D1 opponents (Langston and Ark-Monticello). Combs' scoring average in D1 games is just 6.8 points/game. And then our third leading scorer (TJ Taylor) is only averaging 8.3 points/game, and he's gone after this year.

Next year has all the makings of just being an absolute disaster offensively, and as a team. But, just like everything else, we'll just ignore it until it actually happens and then start spewing crap about how we had no idea how this could happen, or that there's no way anyone could've seen that coming. I hate watching this unfold knowing nothing will be done.

Edited December 30, 2014 by BillySee58

GreenEggs&Ham™ · December 30, 2014

A few thoughts on the TT game.

UNT's zone defense is actually pretty good.
UNT still can't handle the half court trap but amazingly handles the full court press quite well.
We just simply cannot score points and I don't know why.
The jumbotron at TT illuminates the court and is distracting.
What the heck is up with the old men playing in TT pep band. West Texas prairie life really ages these kids?
The local Lubbock commercials made me feel weird and kind of sad. Must be mind numbing boredom and isolation out there.
Columbus, OH looked fun though.

Army of Dad · December 30, 2014

That was the last game I've been to (although even if I hadn't moved, that'd likely still be the case.) Right at the final buzzer, the then 3 year old projectile vomited all over what had been Tasty's seats. It was beautiful and poetic.

See, it's stories like this that keep me in my seats.

golfingomez · December 30, 2014

That was the last game I've been to (although even if I hadn't moved, that'd likely still be the case.) Right at the final buzzer, the then 3 year old projectile vomited all over what had been Tasty's seats. It was beautiful and poetic.

the last game you went to was in 1963????

and I thought I was making a statement by not going the past two years..

Army of Dad · December 30, 2014

Or even worse, when he's gone next year for good. It's just an absolute train wreck waiting to happen, once Benford can't rely on our last prized JJ recruit. Combs is our second-leading scorer at 9.2 points/game, but that's inflated by his 25 point and 17 point performances against our two non-D1 opponents (Langston and Ark-Monticello). Combs' scoring average in D1 games is just 6.8 points/game. And then our third leading scorer (TJ Taylor) is only averaging 8.3 points/game, and he's gone after this year.
Next year has all the makings of just being an absolute disaster offensively, and as a team. But, just like everything else, we'll just ignore it until it actually happens and then start spewing crap about how we had no idea how this could happen, or that there's no way anyone could've seen that coming. I hate watching this unfold knowing nothing will be done.

1. Combs will probably be better next year and could be a double digit scorer.

2. What about Reese? I know he hasn't played for us yet, but couldn't he be the top scorer next year?

Those were the only little things I could come up with...

Andrew · December 30, 2014

1. Combs will probably be better next year and could be a double digit scorer.
2. What about Reese? I know he hasn't played for us yet, but couldn't he be the top scorer next year?
Those were the only little things I could come up with...

Deandre Harris can be something special for sure. He is the fastest player with the ball I wearing the green in a long, long time. He is so fast with the ball, but he needs to get it under control. He draws a lot of charges because he goes straight to the rack and not to the side. I think if he can get a nice floater and have a not more control he will be something to watch over the next two and a half season. Mo will be a senior and can still shoot the ball. They really need to work on getting him the ball away from traffic. If he would run the baseline and pop up around a screen he could get a couple threes every game. He is great at catching and shoot but has difficulty creating his own shot.

Not like I am giving up on this season, but here is the starting line up next season and it does not look bad at all.

1. Reese (Eaglin, Brown, Cambell)

2. Harris (Pittman, Ward)

3. Anefiok (A freshman who can knock down the three)

4. Combs (Ahmed, a forward who can play inside/out like Wesley was suppose to do for us)

5. Brice (A solid defensive JUCO)

A lot is still unknown but assuming no one leaves and the two recruits come so fars its not a terrible lineup.

Jordan Williams will be missed for sure!

BillySee58 · December 30, 2014

1. Combs will probably be better next year and could be a double digit scorer.
2. What about Reese? I know he hasn't played for us yet, but couldn't he be the top scorer next year?
Those were the only little things I could come up with...

Yeah, and we're going to need both of those things.

For Combs, he will be better and I could see him averaging over 10. The thing is, he doesn't create his own offense and gets most of his points off of tips and putback type plays. Almost all right around the basket, either from someone's missed shot or getting set-up right under the basket and finishing.

He's a really good player, but he's limited as far as being able to run plays through him and create his own offense. If you dump the ball down low to him, what does he do? Shoot over the defender? He's only a 6'6" post with limited range. Back down the defender and muscle his way close to the basket? He's only 180 lbs. Stretch the defense and knock down an outside jumper? He has very limited range. He also struggles at the line. Hopefully he can develop an 8-12 foot jumper, which would really help his game as an undersized post. But those reasons are why he's only averaging 6.8 points/game against D1 competition. He needs someone else to create the offense for him to score, which is why losing Jordan and TJ will really hurt.

Unless Reese can be as advertised. But realistically I don't think it's fair to expect more than maybe 12 points and 4 assists per game from in his first year with us. He was decent for A&M, and CUSA will obviously be a step down from the SEC, but he wasn't scoring a lot and he was averaging less than 2 assists/game, but over 2 turnovers/game. He should be a guy who can create some offense though, which we desperately need. We need him to make it on the court first, but he could easily be our top scorer of that happens.

Andrew · December 30, 2014

Combs has been working on a his jumper all season. He has hit at least one in the past couple of games and he has not taken many at all. In the off season he will get better. I'm hoping he does put on some muscle but we still have 3 scholarships next season. Two of them should be post players. Combs could then work on becoming a slashing 3 which would suit his game nicely.

UNT90 · December 30, 2014

Yeah, and we're going to need both of those things.
For Combs, he will be better and I could see him averaging over 10. The thing is, he doesn't create his own offense and gets most of his points off of tips and putback type plays. Almost all right around the basket, either from someone's missed shot or getting set-up right under the basket and finishing.
He's a really good player, but he's limited as far as being able to run plays through him and create his own offense. If you dump the ball down low to him, what does he do? Shoot over the defender? He's only a 6'6" post with limited range. Back down the defender and muscle his way close to the basket? He's only 180 lbs. Stretch the defense and knock down an outside jumper? He has very limited range. He also struggles at the line. Hopefully he can develop an 8-12 foot jumper, which would really help his game as an undersized post. But those reasons are why he's only averaging 6.8 points/game against D1 competition. He needs someone else to create the offense for him to score, which is why losing Jordan and TJ will really hurt.
Unless Reese can be as advertised. But realistically I don't think it's fair to expect more than maybe 12 points and 4 assists per game from in his first year with us. He was decent for A&M, and CUSA will obviously be a step down from the SEC, but he wasn't scoring a lot and he was averaging less than 2 assists/game, but over 2 turnovers/game. He should be a guy who can create some offense though, which we desperately need. We need him to make it on the court first, but he could easily be our top scorer of that happens.

I'll believe Reese plays for the Mean Green when he takes the court for the Mean Green. I wonder if that ever happens.

I find myself wondering that for just about every Benford recruit.

greenjoe · December 30, 2014

Try this on for size....

Someone, please compare the Trilli era with that of the Benford era so far.

UNT90 · December 30, 2014

Trilli didnt destroy a program that was ready to take off.

Benford did.

No comparison.

Edited December 30, 2014 by UNT90

Andrew · December 30, 2014

Try this on for size....

Someone, please compare the Trilli era with that of the Benford era so far.

he was 16-63 in his first three seasons.

Last season alone Benford had 16 wins. It took Trilli 3 years to get there. Benford is a lot better than Trilli.

Jankovich never had a 16 win season and Jimmy Gales only had two 16 win seasons in 7 seasons. Tommy Newman had 21 wins in 3 seasons. Benford has also done better. If you look back at our history there is nothing to suggest Benford is a bad hire. Only if you compare him to Jones does he look like a poor hire. If he stays for 5 or 6 years he could easily be the second best coach in UNT history.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-texas/

CaribbeanGreen · December 30, 2014

he was 16-63 in his first three seasons.

Last season alone Benford had 16 wins. It took Trilli 3 years to get there. Benford is a lot better than Trilli.

Jankovich never had a 16 win season and Jimmy Gales only had two 16 win seasons in 7 seasons. Tommy Newman had 21 wins in 3 seasons. Benford has also done better. If you look back at our history there is nothing to suggest Benford is a bad hire. Only if you compare him to Jones does he look like a poor hire. If he stays for 5 or 6 years he could easily be the second best coach in UNT history.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-texas/

Except for the essentially unanimously held understanding that Benford inherited one of if not THE most talented team in NT history and regressed considerably (losing 20 games), while other coaches you mentioned replaced a fired coach and a losing team. Never mind the fact that the other coaches you mentioned played on average 4-7 games fewer than Benford in those seasons (even WITH the occasional win in a post season tournament, which Benford has yet to achieve even once) - that's not even important even given your not so important "16 win" milestone.

It's about far far more than an arbitrary win total. There's EVERYTHING to suggest he was a bad hire, and I think even you know that.

TheTastyGreek · December 30, 2014

Try this on for size....

Someone, please compare the Trilli era with that of the Benford era so far.

Tony Benford beat Texas A&M in his 45th game as UNT's head coach.

Vic Trilli beat Texas A&M in his 55th game as UNT's head coach.

Vic Trilli was fired exactly 52 games later.

Assuming a 1-and-done in the CUSA tournament, we'll end this season exactly 50 games after Benford's A&M win.

If historical trends hold, maybe we'll fire Benford after this year? Maybe early November of 2015 at the latest?

Dare to dream.

TheTastyGreek · December 30, 2014

Trilli vs. Benford, round 2:

In his first two seasons against conference foes, Vic Trilli went 9-23.

In his first two seasons against conference foes, Tony Benford went 13-23.

TheTastyGreek · December 30, 2014

Trilli vs. Benford, round 3:

Tony Benford lost to a Division 2 school.

Vic Trilli never did.

Andrew · December 30, 2014

Except for the essentially unanimously held understanding that Benford inherited one of if not THE most talented team in NT history and regressed considerably (losing 20 games), while other coaches you mentioned replaced a fired coach and a losing team. Never mind the fact that the other coaches you mentioned played on average 4-7 games fewer than Benford in those seasons (even WITH the occasional win in a post season tournament, which Benford has yet to achieve even once) - that's not even important even given your not so important "16 win" milestone.

It's about far far more than an arbitrary win total. There's EVERYTHING to suggest he was a bad hire, and I think even you know that.

Compared to anyone else we have had he is an average hire. Yes he inherited a very good team and then went on to win 12 games. Who is to say that any other hire would have done any better or any worse. Its difficult to say either way. Benford has improved last season and hopefully can do the same this season. If he goes another 12-20 then sure a change can be made. If we see a 18-13 or 20-11 (something along those lines) then he should certainly return.