Texas Tech (12/29/14)

TheTastyGreek · December 30, 2014

Hypothetical question: If Tony Benford and Vic Trilli were given teams that were identical clones, and faced off against each other in a perfectly even battle where only their wits and coaching acumen made the difference... Who would win?

Better question: All that, AND we invite Mike Petersen to referee the game. Could we implode the Super Pit before any of the three of them could escape with their lives? And, if so, do cloned basketball players have real souls? If yes... Would the moral crime of murdering 16 clones outweigh the good it would mean for North Texas basketball?

Ethics is hard.

Let's throw it to the phone lines. Looking to hear from YOU, North suburbs!

Army of Dad · December 30, 2014

Hypothetical question: If Tony Benford and Vic Trilli were given teams that were identical clones, and faced off against each other in a perfectly even battle where only their wits and coaching acumen made the difference... Who would win?

Better question: All that, AND we invite Mike Petersen to referee the game. Could we implode the Super Pit before any of the three of them could escape with their lives? And, if so, do cloned basketball players have real souls? If yes... Would the moral crime of murdering 16 clones outweigh the good it would mean for North Texas basketball?

Ethics is hard.

Let's throw it to the phone lines. Looking to hear from YOU, North suburbs!

I can't answer that with such an incomplete scenario. Shanice Stephens, ref chaser.

#neverforget

untjim1995 · December 30, 2014

Trilli didnt destroy a program that was ready to take off.
Benford did.
No comparison.

There are a few similarities, Both were known as recruiting aces at their previous stops. Both brought over some nice recruits, but they abandoned ship before ever getting onboard or soon there after. Jankovich left a good team behind that got destroyed very quickly by Trilli. JJ left a really good program behind only to see it burn to the ground within two games of being gone. But Trilli's AD made him play every single OOC giant on the road to pay the bills. At least Benford's AD has dumbed down the schedule to help him get to .500 last year and will probably do so again this year.

But really, the situations aren't that similar. Trilli went out and hustled money to paint the Super Pit and get the seats green because he wanted so bad to make this thing work out--he was over-the-top positive. Benford doesn't seem like that kind of coach. I do think Benford's a better x's and o's coach (I cannot believe I just typed this...) but that was because Trilli couldn't outcoach your below average YMCA coach. Benford has about 10x the financial support that Trilli ever had from the university, but that was because we were just dirt poor back then, as opposed to being just poor now, apparently. back then, Vic Trilli got a 4th year because that was when his contract was over and we couldn't afford to buy out a 6 figure contract. Today, we can afford to buy out one year on a bad contract, but nothing more, so I guess its the true progress of the last 14 years that we have progressed up that much (or little)...

Benford literally fire-bombed our program from the get-go, but now has it setup to be a .500 team because of the scheduling. Trilli took it down in a more measured pace--started off bad, got worse, still even worse, and finally reached the ultimate "this is as bad as hoops can get around here". Trilli got 4 years, as will Benford, but Benford will possibly get extended at the end of the season, where as Trilli never had a prayer of that happening. He just had to run out his contract terms until it was over. Benford, at a bare minimum, will be here next year, just because we have those 6 wins already. Literally, we could lose out and he will be here next year. But his record so far gives him a chance at being extended here by RV. Helwig would have just fired Trilli and replaced him with another assistant from Texas or K-State when hius contract was over.

TheTastyGreek · December 30, 2014

I can't answer that with such an incomplete scenario. Shanice Stephens, ref chaser.
#neverforget

You want to talk about troubling trends in coaching???

Shanice, since her ouster here, has split her time between selling some sort of multi-level marketing health and energy drink deal, and with a business devoted to the purchase of precious metals.

Measuring prices today vs. the week she was fired in 2011... Gold is down 17% and Silver is down 54%.

Say what you will about Petersen, but at least he hasn't destroyed the international bond market or anything. If Benford goes to work at the Fed after we finally get rid of him, RUN FOR CANADA IMMEDIATELY.

Andrew · December 30, 2014

It's about far far more than an arbitrary win total. There's EVERYTHING to suggest he was a bad hire, and I think even you know that.

So if a win total is not a reason to keep a coach then why can it be used to fire a coach? Why also is it being used to compare Benford to the coach who was before him.

CMJ · December 30, 2014

I just wanna say Jankovich was a terrific X's and O's guy.

Benford is better than Trilli, but that's setting the bar low. I've never coached in my life and I could hardly do worse than Trilli.

Quoner · December 30, 2014

Hypothetical question: If Tony Benford and Vic Trilli were given teams that were identical clones, and faced off against each other in a perfectly even battle where only their wits and coaching acumen made the difference... Who would win?

Better question: All that, AND we invite Mike Petersen to referee the game. Could we implode the Super Pit before any of the three of them could escape with their lives? And, if so, do cloned basketball players have real souls? If yes... Would the moral crime of murdering 16 clones outweigh the good it would mean for North Texas basketball?

Ethics is hard.

Let's throw it to the phone lines. Looking to hear from YOU, North suburbs!

Let's start where things always need to start around here - the will of the Catholic Church (thanks RV - Rick Vitae? Brett Vitae? Brett Vita? BRETT VITO!?)

Cardinal Seán O'Malley of Boston, (probably a LB from the 1977 Incarnate World team and now chairman of the US bishops' Committee on Pro-Life Activities), has declared that human cloning is inconsistent with our responsibility to "treat each member of the human family as a unique gift of God, as a person with his or her own inherent dignity."

Well, there you have it folks -no dice...

Unless...

We don't make the clones ourselves. What about aliens? I know, I know, it sounds crazy, but maybe not according to Pope Francis. In fact, he'd baptize Gleepnorp Bazadoo from Generon 6 right now!

So, if Gleepnorp comes to us with a pre-existing clone set of players and Jesus in his/her heart, we really would be doing the Lord's will here by letting this game happen. Yes, Benford might not appreciate the scenario, but I think we cane once again look at the word's of Jesus when He talked to HIS Athletic Director: "Coach, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but your scheduling be done."

CaribbeanGreen · December 30, 2014

Why also is it being used to compare Benford to the coach who was before him.

Huh? Is this message board Inception?

You tell me. Don't argue with yourself.

"Last season alone Benford had 16 wins. It took Trilli 3 years to get there. Benford is a lot better than Trilli.

Jankovich never had a 16 win season and Jimmy Gales only had two 16 win seasons in 7 seasons. Tommy Newman had 21 wins in 3 seasons. Benford has also done better. If you look back at our history there is nothing to suggest Benford is a bad hire. Only if you compare him to Jones does he look like a poor hire. If he stays for 5 or 6 years he could easily be the second best coach in UNT history."

Green P1 · December 30, 2014

Benny was a great hire. The only people that think otherwise are the jerk fans that quit caring, the trouble makin players he ran off, the idiotic general public who no longer realize we have a basketball program, and those jerks who keep track of basic statistics.

Throw out all them crumb bums and the AD/rich donation makers gots themselves an A++ dude!

Andrew · December 30, 2014

Huh? Is this message board Inception?

You tell me. Don't argue with yourself.

"Last season alone Benford had 16 wins. It took Trilli 3 years to get there. Benford is a lot better than Trilli.

Jankovich never had a 16 win season and Jimmy Gales only had two 16 win seasons in 7 seasons. Tommy Newman had 21 wins in 3 seasons. Benford has also done better. If you look back at our history there is nothing to suggest Benford is a bad hire. Only if you compare him to Jones does he look like a poor hire. If he stays for 5 or 6 years he could easily be the second best coach in UNT history."

That was in response to people who have already compared the two. They already talk about the team that was inherited and the 20 win seasons we had. The comparison has been going on for 3 years.

KRAM1 · December 30, 2014

Let's start where things always need to start around here - the will of the Catholic Church (thanks RV - Rick Vitae? Brett Vitae? Brett Vita? BRETT VITO!?)

Cardinal Seán O'Malley of Boston, (probably a LB from the 1977 Incarnate World team and now chairman of the US bishops' Committee on Pro-Life Activities), has declared that human cloning is inconsistent with our responsibility to "treat each member of the human family as a unique gift of God, as a person with his or her own inherent dignity."

Well, there you have it folks -no dice...

Unless...

We don't make the clones ourselves. What about aliens? I know, I know, it sounds crazy, but maybe not according to Pope Francis. In fact, he'd baptize Gleepnorp Bazadoo from Generon 6 right now!

So, if Gleepnorp comes to us with a pre-existing clone set of players and Jesus in his/her heart, we really would be doing the Lord's will here by letting this game happen. Yes, Benford might not appreciate the scenario, but I think we cane once again look at the word's of Jesus when He talked to HIS Athletic Director: "Coach, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but your scheduling be done."

You ever check you PM's these days? Sent you one or two recently...BTW...how's the great NE these days?

UNT90 · December 30, 2014

he was 16-63 in his first three seasons.

Last season alone Benford had 16 wins. It took Trilli 3 years to get there. Benford is a lot better than Trilli.

Jankovich never had a 16 win season and Jimmy Gales only had two 16 win seasons in 7 seasons. Tommy Newman had 21 wins in 3 seasons. Benford has also done better. If you look back at our history there is nothing to suggest Benford is a bad hire. Only if you compare him to Jones does he look like a poor hire. If he stays for 5 or 6 years he could easily be the second best coach in UNT history.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/north-texas/

Except that he took over a program coming off an 18 win season with every starter returning, a program picked as a mid major to watch by multiple publications, a team with a future NBA draft pick returning, a program with a point guard that "could start on any Big East team" according to Benford, AND HE RAN IT INTO THE GROUND.

Nose first, hard, leaving few survivors.

But ya, he's a terrific freakiing hire...

Andrew · December 31, 2014

Except that he took over a program coming off an 18 win season with every starter returning, a program picked as a mid major to watch by multiple publications, a team with a future NBA draft pick returning, a program with a point guard that "could start on any Big East team" according to Benford, AND HE RAN IT INTO THE GROUND.
Nose first, hard, leaving few survivors.
But ya, he's a terrific freakiing hire...

I do not think he was a terrifich hire,but he is better than many. I wanted Fran and we did not get him and that is fine. JJ thought Benford would be a good hire so who is to argue? It has not panned out, but if he can improve every season going forward until we get multiple 20 win seasons than Benford will be considered a good coach.

I do wish that Tony would have gone to the NBA. Expections would have been lower and we could have landed a guy who would have layer it all out on the line without fear of injury. I always worried about him getting injured and I cannot blame him for doing the same.

greenminer · December 31, 2014

This is Benny's impersonation of Iba ball. Minus any wins.

Makes sense to me.

UNTFan23 · December 31, 2014

Benford literally fire-bombed our program from the get-go, but now has it setup to be a .500 team because of the scheduling. Trilli took it down in a more measured pace--started off bad, got worse, still even worse, and finally reached the ultimate "this is as bad as hoops can get around here". Trilli got 4 years, as will Benford, but Benford will possibly get extended at the end of the season, where as Trilli never had a prayer of that happening. He just had to run out his contract terms until it was over. Benford, at a bare minimum, will be here next year, just because we have those 6 wins already. Literally, we could lose out and he will be here next year. But his record so far gives him a chance at being extended here by RV. Helwig would have just fired Trilli and replaced him with another assistant from Texas or K-State when hius contract was over.

Why do you keep saying Benford will have his contract extended? Some of the metrics a coach is measured by outside of wins and losses he is not doing well (season tickets and overall attendance). He could finish the remaining years on his contract at .500 and I don't think it would save him.

emmitt01 · December 31, 2014

Why do you keep saying Benford will have his contract extended? Some of the metrics a coach is measured by outside of wins and losses he is not doing well (season tickets and overall attendance). He could finish the remaining years on his contract at .500 and I don't think it would save him.

We are still talking about RV making the call, right?

GrandGreen · December 31, 2014

No one is going to extend Benford's contract unless he starts winning in CUSA.

He should never have been hired in hind sight. Too much talent on that team to risk with a guy with no HC experience. He was horrible in year one, clearly totally unprepared. The second year was only marginally better.

Now in year three, the team is actually not as bad as many apparently want it to be. They play hard and look like at least they have been coached. Unfortunately, they currently have no true point, have an undersized front court and as a group lack offensive fire power.

Although many seem to think this is one of the all time bad basketball teams in history, they are not even close. Yes, the late Jones', early Blakeley, mid-era Gales teams, and MVC era teams were better, but that leaves a lot of NT history that were on a par or worse than this team.

While it may be fun to continue to kick the men's basketball program and Benford in particular, they have made progress and certainly right now are no worse than this year's football team and lets not even talk about Petersen's mess.

UNTFan23 · December 31, 2014

With the way some of you are thinking we'll never ever get rid of Benford, I guess we should have renewed Tina Slinker's contract.

CMJ · December 31, 2014

With the way some of you are thinking we'll never ever get rid of Benford, I guess we should have renewed Tina Slinker's contract.

Considering the last few years in WBB...maybe?

GRN-WHT · December 31, 2014

We accept piss-poor coaches and athletic directors simply because others before them have lost more.

We dig our own grave.

UNT90 · December 31, 2014

He could finish the remaining years on his contract at .500 and I don't think it would save him.

Sadly, I think you are quite the prophet here, as we sure wont fire him, at least not until after the 4th year.

Edited December 31, 2014 by UNT90

MeanMag · December 31, 2014

What are we doing comparing this coach to some of the worst in our history? What kind of a justification is it that he's maybe not our worst coach?

Is it too much to expect someone to have at least maintained or improved the (some would say moderate) amount of success as the previous guy? If our best historical teams weren't good enough for where we want to be, we should at least be comparing his performance to our best performance. If the consistency and indication that he can either meet or exceed those performance standards aren't there - Move on. There was a time we expected to win/be competitive in a game against Texas Tech. Why is that not where the bar is set?

I hear that word progress, but progress doesn't lose to Prairie View A&M and slip into the lower rungs of NCAA basketball on offense. If you want to say they've progressed over the season, I'm not sold. I don't know how you beat Creighton and then lose to Prairie View and wet the bed at Tech and call it progress. If anything, we've regressed if Creighton is considered our high point.

I wish they played today, because it seems these last 2 games certainly did not sit well with the fan base. Rightfully so.

UNTFan23 · December 31, 2014

Sadly, I think you are quite the prophet here, as we sure wont fire him, at least not until after the 4th year.

I think the financial problems the university has experienced will keep us from axing any coaches for the next couple years, at least those with large payouts and multiple years still remaining on their contracts.

untjim1995 · December 31, 2014

Why do you keep saying Benford will have his contract extended? Some of the metrics a coach is measured by outside of wins and losses he is not doing well (season tickets and overall attendance). He could finish the remaining years on his contract at .500 and I don't think it would save him.

Oh, I don't know...maybe because RV needs this hire to not be judged a complete failure, like Todd Dodge and Shanice Stephens were, so that flyonthewall and his pals won't think the AD cannot hire decent personnel and possibly pull back from the program? You know, like everyone else has at the school, in Denton, and in DFW.

And speaking of Slinker, she left here after 19 years--with an astounding record of 241-287. But she did get us to back-to-back NWIT berths in 2001 and 2002, her 11th and 12th years on the job, Her most wins in 19 years on the job was 21.

.500 is the bar here for Benford. To think otherwise is to not know or understand UNT Athletics history. If he doesn't get there this year, he will just have to get to .500 next year in his make-it-or-break-it 4th season. I promise you that 2 .500 seasons or better out of 3 or 4 will get Benford an extension. Attendance doesn't matter, postseason doesn't matter, nor does x's and o's as a coach. This will be about money and RVs pride--as long as the BOR likes the first part (friendly cost, not having to hire anyone else), they will give RV the blessing to help him. Benford is RVs guy--he's gonna do everything imaginable to keep him here, just like he will do for Dan McCarney. He cannot have either of those two hires fail--not after the Dodge debacle and the way things started under Benford. He has to have them both "succeed"--Coach Mac is taken care of for now, and Benford will be next. For you or anyone else to not see that just astounds me...

UNT90 · December 31, 2014

I think the financial problems the university has experienced will keep us from axing any coaches for the next couple years, at least those with large payouts and multiple years still remaining on their contracts.

Fly has stated several times on here that the money is available to fire Benford when the time is right. He would know better than anyone on this board.

It appears RV just can't tell time.

Extending Benford after only 2 out of 4 seasons where he exactly reach .500 would kill ALL alumni and fan support for th program and bring INTENSE heat on RV from the fan base. That won't happen. We will just have the fire after the 4th year RV special on our hands. After the program has been completely destroyed.

Edited December 31, 2014 by UNT90