WKU

[GMG24]

wow, impressed with Dangerfield and Doughty.

[outoftown]

fun game so far.

[Harry]

Doughty is a stud!

[BillySee58]

Here's a stat for you. Brandon Doughty has 18 touchdown passes in the last 2 and a half games. We had 13 touchdown passes all year.

[UNT90]

Here's a stat for you. Brandon Doughty has 18 touchdown passes in the last 2 and a half games. We had 13 touchdown passes all year.

Thanks for ruining Christmas...

[FirefightnRick]

D Tackles Shorter, #94, 6'2" 285 from Mississippi, and Brown #92, 6'2" 305 from Alabama impresses me. Both recruited from High School straight out of the middle of SEC country.

Central Michigan is averaging less than 2 yards a carry.

When you control the LOS like that good things are going to happen.

Rick

[GOMG2013]

D Tackles Shorter, #94, 6'2" 285 from Mississippi, and Brown #92, 6'2" 305 from Alabama impresses me. Both recruited from High School straight out of the middle of SEC country.

Central Michigan is averaging less than 2 yards a carry.

When you control the LOS like that good things are going to happen.

Rick

When your QB throws 5 TDs in a half...good things are happening...

[SilverEagle]

Here's a stat for you. Brandon Doughty has 18 touchdown passes in the last 2 and a half games. We had 13 touchdown passes all year.

....and like other stud QB's I've seen in the last two years (Manzel and Boykin) their WR's are the main reason they're racking up gaudy stats. Did you see some of those catches over the middle that the WK starting WR made? Talk about going after the ball and YAC's. Not even Brelan Chancellor or Darnell Smith went after it that well.

[greenit]

Both players were given the lowest possible ranking by the 247 coming out of high school, 2 stars (70 rating). WKU was their only offer per 247.

http://247sports.com/Player/Bryan-Shorter-9663

http://247sports.com/Player/GeMonee-Brown-26318

Looks like they found some overlooked, diamonds in the rough.

[FirefightnRick]

When your QB throws 5 TDs in a half...good things are happening...

.....unless the other QB throws 5 TD's too. But in this game the other QB can hardly complete a handoff, at least until WKY started subbing in backups.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

Both players were given the lowest possible ranking by the 247 coming out of high school, 2 stars (70 rating). WKU was their only offer per 247.

http://247sports.com/Player/Bryan-Shorter-9663

[url="http://247sports.com/Player/GeMonee-Brown-26318"]http://247sports.com/Player/GeMonee-Brown-26318[/url

Looks like they found some overlooked, diamonds in the rough.

Yeah, it's called TALENT EVALUATION. Something very few of the rubes some of you recruit experts keep referencing to ever do, if ever?

The coaches, you know guys who actually played, go see these guys play, study the game film and evaluate if they have what it takes or not. They don't make their decisions based off of how many offers they have form XYZ school. And some coaches are better at this than others.

Rick

[MEANGREENCOACH2]

This game is crazy

[FirefightnRick]

WKY keeps throwing the ball and turning it over. Handed CMU the perfect gift to get back I to this game.

Rick

[FirefightnRick]

OMG!!!!

What a dumbass. Goes for two instead of overtime when his team couldn't be stopped?

Rick

Edited December 24, 2014 by FirefightnRick

[greenit]

I thought the complaint was that our coaches should be going after the players that the recruiting rubes have rated as 3 stars and above and stop evaluating and signing these 2 star/NR/no other offer players?

I don't disagree about evaluating/developing the players. Player evaluation and subsequent development is a key responsibility of the coaches, especially at the G5 level.

[FirefightnRick]

I thought the complaint was that our coaches should be going after the players that the recruiting rubes have rated as 3 stars and above and stop evaluating and signing these 2 star/NR/no other offer players?

I don't disagree about evaluating/developing the players. Player evaluation and subsequent development is a key responsibility of the coaches, especially at the G5 level.

I don't know other than we're 4-8 and headed for worse. Maybe you should respond to yourself with this over on the 5 Millionth Recruiting thread we have here, and see if you get the answer your looking for?

Rick

[GOMG2013]

I agree there is a problem with talent evaluation, but these posts are just another shot at our DT, and their size. There is an obsession on this board with DTs being in the 300+ range.

Marshall, who just smashed a better NIU team, won CUSA, and has been a consistient program has two "undersized" DTs.

Rouse 268, Samuel 276. How did they ever manage to go 13-1? Surely those DTs got blown off the ball...

In 14 games

Rouse 43 tackles, 10.5 tfl, 2.5sacks, 3ff

Samuel 30 tackles, 5tfl, 1 sack

its about TALENT.

[greenit]

I don't know other than we're 4-8 and headed for worse. Maybe you should respond to yourself with this over on the 5 Millionth Recruiting thread we have here, and see if you get the answer your looking for?

Rick

I wasn't looking for an answer in that thread, just trying to add value to the forum by sharing information. It seems like there is a lot of confusion over how the rankings work, so I researched a bit and shared what I found.

Edited December 24, 2014 by greenit

[FirefightnRick]

I agree there is a problem with talent evaluation, but these posts are just another shot at our DT, and their size. There is an obsession on this board with DTs being in the 300+ range.

Marshall, who just smashed a better NIU team, won CUSA, and has been a consistient program has two "undersized" DTs.

Rouse 268, Samuel 276. How did they ever manage to go 13-1? Surely those DTs got blown off the ball...

In 14 games

Rouse 43 tackles, 10.5 tfl, 2.5sacks, 3ff

Samuel 30 tackles, 5tfl, 1 sack

its about TALENT.

Really, talent? Why didnt I think of that first?

It's about a lot of things. Scheme, blitzing, coverages, all of that. Not once have I ever claimed Talent wasn't a factor. But the majority of the top DL's are not lightweights and end up around their weight and above.

And those two you listed aren't 6'0"....276. They're 6'4" and 6'5".... 276. They are big, fast, agile people that are quick off the ball with reach who can draw the double team.

For whatever reason our guy isn't finding players like them to replace those that Todd Dodge did find.

Argue it all you want. Pick at every word I point out to you all you want.. Giggle and drool over stars and who offered who, all you want. Bottom line is, we're 4-8 and looking at worse.

Rick

[BillySee58]

I thought the complaint was that our coaches should be going after the players that the recruiting rubes have rated as 3 stars and above and stop evaluating and signing these 2 star/NR/no other offer players?

I don't disagree about evaluating/developing the players. Player evaluation and subsequent development is a key responsibility of the coaches, especially at the G5 level.

You seem to be misleading yourself on all of this.

1. 247 didn't become a recruiting service until the 2013 class. They were started up by a bunch of rivals analysts. So Shorter (a 2011 recruit) was rated retrospectively, therefore not given a legitimate high school rating. They just gave him the lowest rating/a stock rating so he, and the other recruits prior to 2013, would just be recorded so people could see prior recruiting classes.

He actually had at least 5 division 1 offers, which is more than any of our defensive tackles we've signed under Mccarney except for Syd Moore.

2. Which brings me to my next point, stop caring so much about star ratings and give more weight to offer lists. Like that Shorter kid, multiple D1 head coaches believed he was a D1 defensive tackle. They were right. That's much more valuable than some analyst slapping a spare 3-star rating on a kid. And that's the thing. We haven't been able to get a lot of kids, especially DTs, with good offer lists because we haven't been good at winning recruiting battles under Mccarney.

Willie Taggart won a lot of recruiting battles at WKU, including Shorter, and that's why they've been so good these last few years.

[greenit]

Really, talent? Why didnt I think of that first?

It's about a lot of things. Scheme, blitzing, coverages, all of that. Not once have I ever claimed Talent wasn't a factor. But the majority of the top DL's are not lightweights and end up around their weight and above.

And those two you listed aren't 6'0"....276. They're 6'4" and 6'5".... 276. They are big, fast, agile people that are quick off the ball with reach who can draw the double team.

For whatever reason our guy isn't finding players like them to replace those that Todd Dodge did find.

Argue it all you want. Pick at every word I point out to you all you want.. Giggle and drool over stars and who offered who, all you want. Bottom line is, we're 4-8 and looking at worse.

Rick

This I agree with. It is about talent evaluation and player development. I thought what sent us down this rabbit hole was someone complaining about how we are not signing enough stars or the players did not have enough offers from other teams. Now it seems like it has shifted to evaluating talent, regardless of ranking. I couldn't agree more.

[greenit]

You seem to be misleading yourself on all of this.

1. 247 didn't become a recruiting service until the 2013 class. They were started up by a bunch of rivals analysts. So Shorter (a 2011 recruit) was rated retrospectively, therefore not given a legitimate high school rating. They just gave him the lowest rating/a stock rating so he, and the other recruits prior to 2013, would just be recorded so people could see prior recruiting classes.

He actually had at least 5 division 1 offers, which is more than any of our defensive tackles we've signed under Mccarney except for Syd Moore.

2. Which brings me to my next point, stop caring so much about star ratings and give more weight to offer lists. Like that Shorter kid, multiple D1 head coaches believed he was a D1 defensive tackle. They were right. That's much more valuable than some analyst slapping a spare 3-star rating on a kid. And that's the thing. We haven't been able to get a lot of kids, especially DTs, with good offer lists because we haven't been good at winning recruiting battles under Mccarney.

Willie Taggart won a lot of recruiting battles at WKU, including Shorter, and that's why they've been so good these last few years.

You seem to be confusing me with someone else. I could not care less about star ratings. The only thing I have done is post public information about star ratings that our recruits have received in order to rebut posts indicating that our recruits were 'all 2 star or unranked', or to respond to posters who are using an example of a player on another team, when that player was originally a lower ranked/unranked player when coming out of HS. I also posted some basic information on how the services try to distribute the rankings for those that may be less familiar.

Once you get past the top several hundred players, I personally believe there is a lot less difference between players than a lot of people like to believe. If a coach likes a player that happens to be unranked or lowly ranked according to some service, more than a player ranked highly by a service, I think they should take the player they like and think can become the player they need.

The posts complaining about our recruits not having enough stars are easy enough to find on this site. I typically take the stance of having to trust the coaches and their ability to evaluate talent that fits their recruiting profile. The proof of that ability typically manifests itself in wins/losses over time.

Edit:

Good to know about 247 ranking all players as 2 star/70 prior to 2013. Once again, I posted referencing 247 specifically, when I am also looking at their composite score since they are listed by each other. For both players referenced they had a composite score of 2 stars. Again, don't get so wrapped up in the number of stars or the rating number. I agree that when multiple coaches evaluate a player and they all choose to make offers, it is a pretty good bet that the player can play and is ultimately the best indicator.

Edited December 24, 2014 by greenit