Officials say ULM won't be following UAB's football footsteps

[Eagle1855]

Even better, not having to pay a lot of cash to get teams like Arizona into your stadium.

Has anyone considered the possibility that maybe these teams don't want to come play here -- or find little value in doing so?

I'm not suggesting that is the case. But as it has been mentioned in other threads, a lot of regional teams have DFW games.

Certainly it's not just the AD "not doing his job."

Edited December 13, 2014 by Eagle1855

[meangreenbob]

Was in the DRC the week of Nov 20th that we are paying Incarnate Word $350K

Rick

Isn't RV Catholic? I don't know but if indeed he is then wouldn't it be sensible to look deeper into the Incarnate Word deal. For instance, why would RV spend $350K to bring a D1AA Catholic school into Apogee Stadium that creates "absolutely no fan interest" and furthermore why would he pay them $350,000 to drive up from San Antonio? It's not like they have to fly from a destination such as 1A Idaho.

Edited December 13, 2014 by meangreenbob

[VideoEagle]

Isn't RV Catholic? I don't know but if indeed he is then wouldn't it be sensible to look deeper into the Incarnate Word deal. For instance, why would RV spend $350K to bring a D1AA Catholic school into Apogee Stadium that creates "absolutely no fan interest" and furthermore why would he pay them $350,000 to drive up from San Antonio? It's not like they have to fly from a destination such as 1A Idaho.

Wow! I guess if a black AD schedules Grambling they should be investigated as well. While you have no fan interest in seeing the Mean Green play, that doesn't mean the rest of us do not!

If you read the thread, FCS games in 2014 averaged $438k and this article points out the price is increasing dramatically each year, nearly $100k a year. By the time the IWU game comes around $350k will be among the least expensive games possible to be scheduled!

[UNT90]

Has anyone considered the possibility that maybe these teams don't want to come play here -- or find little value in doing so?

I'm not suggesting that is the case. But as it has been mentioned in other threads, a lot of regional teams have DFW games.

Certainly it's not just the AD "not doing his job."

So you are saying Jonesboro, Arkansas or Monroe, LA is more attractive than a brand new stadium in DFW?

This is exactly a case of the AD not doing his job.

[meangreenbob]

Wow! I guess if a black AD schedules Grambling they should be investigated as well. While you have no fan interest in seeing the Mean Green play, that doesn't mean the rest of us do not!

If you read the thread, FCS games in 2014 averaged $438k and this article points out the price is increasing dramatically each year, nearly $100k a year. By the time the IWU game comes around $350k will be among the least expensive games possible to be scheduled!

You understand thats a terrible analogy, right?

If our AD were white or black and scheduled Grambling at least their band would draw more interest and fans then IW could even think about. And not only that the Grambling fans would give Apogee its first sell out.

Furthermore, where did I even remotely suggest that I had no interest in seeing the Mean Green play? Show me.

I sincerely believe that RV put Incarnate Word before the interest of our fans and program and that is a violation of his duty as the Athletic Director of UNT.

[Cerebus]

There are some insane allegations.

Villareal is obviously a Zoroastrianist name. Now if RV schedules a sweetheart game with the University of Ahura Mazda, then we have a story.

[UNT90]

RV is of Italian, decent, right?

And where is the Vatican located?

I think we have our answer...

[Eagle1855]

So you are saying Jonesboro, Arkansas or Monroe, LA is more attractive than a brand new stadium in DFW?

I don't know, is that what I said? Read back through my comment and you tell me if that is what I said.

Because I thought I was commenting on the fact that that several teams already play in D/FW every year (or with regularity) likely preempts us from attracting said regional rivals. In fact, I think the regional component was the entire point of my post. But it's been a few hours. Who knows what I was thinking when I wrote it?

The entire Big XII, AAC, and Arkansas all play in D/FW with regularity. If you guys think teams from the Mountain West are going to inspire our fans to fill the stadium, I think you're dreaming. No one cares about SJSU or New Mexico. Their own fans don't even care about them.

Also, everyone needs to make peace with UTSA out-scheduling us in non-conference play because it's not going to stop. They've got the San Antonio market to themselves along with a large, centrally-located stadium.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Eagle1855

[FirefightnRick]

They may have, but I've never seen Arizona or Wake Forest play in the DFW area.

Rick

[Quoner]

You understand thats a terrible analogy, right?

If our AD were white or black and scheduled Grambling at least their band would draw more interest and fans then IW could even think about. And not only that the Grambling fans would give Apogee its first sell out.

Furthermore, where did I even remotely suggest that I had no interest in seeing the Mean Green play? Show me.

I sincerely believe that RV put Incarnate Word before the interest of our fans and program and that is a violation of his duty as the Athletic Director of UNT.

Maybe he has to treat it like a long-term penance - so the plan is obviously that we'll have Boston College in 2021 and then Notre Dame in 2027. Look it up - it's in the AD portion of the Second Vatican Council.

[UNT90]

I don't know, is that what I said? Read back through my comment and you tell me if that is what I said.

Because I thought I was commenting on the fact that that several teams already play in D/FW every year (or with regularity) likely preempts us from attracting said regional rivals. In fact, I think the regional component was the entire point of my post. But it's been a few hours. Who knows what I was thinking when I wrote it?

The entire Big XII, AAC, and Arkansas all play in D/FW with regularity. If you guys think teams from the Mountain West are going to inspire our fans to fill the stadium, I think you're dreaming. No one cares about SJSU or New Mexico. Their own fans don't even care about them.

Also, everyone needs to make peace with UTSA out-scheduling us in non-conference play because it's not going to stop. They've got the San Antonio market to themselves along with a large, centrally-located stadium.

But yet SMU gets teams like A&M to come to their 30k seat stadium in the very same DFW area that is such a detriment to UNT.

But I'm sure there is an excuse for that, also.

Excuse after excuse after excuse is what we get as UNT fans. Never sustained success, just excuses. So much so that many of our fans start to echo said excuses.

It a culture of excuses, and it really, really needs to change.

Edited December 14, 2014 by UNT90

[Andrew]

But yet SMU gets teams like A&M to come to their 30k seat stadium in the very same DFW area that is such a detriment to UNT.

But I'm sure there is an excuse for that, also.

Excuse after excuse after excuse is what we get as UNT fans. Never sustained success, just excuses. So much so that many of our fans start to echo said excuses.

It a culture of excuses, and it really, really needs to change.

Not taking any sides, but how do you know they haven't tried to get teams here? They may just refuse. Johhny said he always had issues getting schools he wanted into Denton (or even get a game at all). TCU is a good example of a team te tried to get to the pit every year and never did to my knowledge. Sometimes teams just don't want to play you.

[MeanMag]

Not taking any sides, but how do you know they haven't tried to get teams here? They may just refuse. Johhny said he always had issues getting schools he wanted into Denton (or even get a game at all). TCU is a good example of a team te tried to get to the pit every year and never did to my knowledge. Sometimes teams just don't want to play you.

That is because in basketball when you start to beat decent teams at home, the people fighting for your recruits don't want to play you. Tcu wasn't looking for an rpi boost (they weren't in the hunt) and they weren't looking to lose in front of the very recruits they were trying to get.

We were right at the point where power teams were willing to schedule us at our house for an rpi boost and resume builder for them.

Basketball and football scheduling are very different.

[Eagle1855]

But yet SMU gets teams like A&M to come to their 30k seat stadium in the very same DFW area that is such a detriment to UNT.

But I'm sure there is an excuse for that, also.

Excuse after excuse after excuse is what we get as UNT fans. Never sustained success, just excuses. So much so that many of our fans start to echo said excuses.

It a culture of excuses, and it really, really needs to change.

I was actually just trying to offer an explanation.

I'll work on my excuse-making and try to be a better fan. Thank you for pointing it out.

[UNT90]

I was actually just trying to offer an explanation.

Explaining is something you do when you fail.

Excuses are often offered for failure.

Lesser programs are doing better in this area than UNT. That makes any explanation an excuse in my book.

Why do you feel the need to explain this away? Maybe that's a question you should ask yourself.

And I am not saying that to be snarky at all. I think a lot of this fan base needs sports therapy, as they have subconsciously bought into the culture of excuses this AD has thrown out there for the last 10 years. Hell, even the head football coach showed he was starting to buy in with his recent comments crying about how hard it is at UNT, and he has only been here 4 years.

Edited December 14, 2014 by UNT90

[Harry]

I think the other piece to this is that your head football coach probably has a lot of input on scheduling these home games. I doubt Mac wants to lose at home. He's proud of that home record; it's one of his biggest accomplishments here.

Ultimately it is RV's responsibility, but to position it as if it is all his doing seems either naive or in order to promote another agenda.

[Eagle1855]

Explaining is something you do when you fail.

Excuses are often offered for failure.

Lesser programs are doing better in this area than UNT. That makes any explanation an excuse in my book.

Why do you feel the need to explain this away? Maybe that's a question you should ask yourself.

I really enjoy this mentor-mentee relationship we have established. I feel like I'm already a better version of myself and a greater asset to UNT.

People ask why UTSA gets programs to come visit their little slice of heaven. I offered an explanation -- one that's founded in the reality of the situation, rather than emotional "poor us" lamentations. You offered a completely unrelated scenario regarding SMU. And though I'm hesitant to continue down this rabbit hole (which apparently exists in a world where context is of no great significance), I'm glad to explain to you why SMU is able to attract teams to play at their place:

1) First and foremost, it's almost certainly a guaranteed win.

2) It's right in the heart of Dallas, not 40 miles north of any airport. SMU is down the street from Love Field.

3) SMU is an actual brand people recognize, not a directional school whose Division 1 status is largely unknown outside D/FW and the State of Texas.

4) Lastly, related specifically to A&M, it's well-known the entire Big XII cut A&M off once they bounced. So A&M needs games in Texas to continue to be a TEXAS program, first and foremost -- not an SEC school. I can support this statement by showing you their non-conference opponents since they left the Big XII. This gives the SMU's of the world some leverage. Additionally, they're an old SWC foe. We aren't. In fact, we aren't really anyone's rival (except maybe our own). Which is immaterial to this discussion, but serves as a credit to the my third point, which is that we aren't really a factor in college football discussions in the State of Texas.

The rest of your lesson to me about how to have greater expectations is entirely misplaced, as I've spent most of my time on this board over the last decade saying UNT needs to expect and accept nothing less than excellence in everything it does -- which includes athletics.

But again, thank you for all your recommendations on how to be a better fan.

[UNT90]

But again, thank you for all your recommendations on how to be a better fan.

Good Lord dude. Stop whining.

So the only thing SMU has over us is a "brand" of being a consistent loser over the last 20 years and being in Dallas instead of Denton, which is a mere 30 miles in distance? Big difference there.

And you admit A&M needs games against Texas foes? Have we even bothered to ask? I would bet not.

What about the other issues with scheduling? Five home games seasons in 2 of the last 4 years? Having to buy a home game in every single one of those same 4 years because you have scheduled yourself into such hole?

And yes, one aspect of scheduling does effect the other, because if you aren't doing your job in one phase, you can't be trusted to do your job in the other related phases.

[UNT90]

I think the other piece to this is that your head football coach probably has a lot of input on scheduling these home games. I doubt Mac wants to lose at home. He's proud of that home record; it's one of his biggest accomplishments here.

Ultimately it is RV's responsibility, but to position it as if it is all his doing seems either naive or in order to promote another agenda.

Jeez.

Who works for who here? Also, DMac had no influence over the scheduling that put us in such a hole that we HAD to buy home games each of the last 4 seasons in order to avoid 4 or more straight years of 5 home game seasons.

Those scheduling decisions were made long before DMac was hired.

I have no doubt RV will lay the blame at anyone else's feet that he can, as that is what he has done every time I've heard him address any of his mistakes.

Again, a culture of excuses.

[UNT90]

Do you even read the posts you respond to?

I never said RV was a great scheduler. I never said there weren't areas for improvement. There are. Clearly.

I pointed out several acute and specific issues related to scheduling -- things that do not work in UNT's favor. You won't get an argument from me that it needs help on the whole. I also don't think it really matters. It's like arguing about helmet stickers. At the end of the day, only winning matters.

UNT has done much of what is in its power to better its place in the college football world, related to facilities and conference affiliation. It has failed at the most important thing, however: winning.

And UNT isn't losing because it hasn't hosted Wake Forest. It's losing because it accepts mediocrity.

.and my point on this subject has always been that this program has NEVER had a program defining win. A win against a ranked team. A win that makes alumni pay attention. Those wins are a lot easier to get at home than on the road. Arkansas St. will have that opportunity against Mizzou. We haven't had that opportunity since moving into Apogee.

Mediocre covers everything, including scheduling.

[meangreanmick]

.and my point on this subject has always been that this program has NEVER had a program defining win. A win against a ranked team. A win that makes alumni pay attention. Those wins are a lot easier to get at home than on the road. Arkansas St. will have that opportunity against Mizzou. We haven't had that opportunity since moving into Apogee.

Mediocre covers everything, including scheduling.

OK, I'll admit you make some fair points on some things related to scheduling, but there is no such thing as a "program defining win". ULM is case in point. Beat Alabama in 07, beat Arkansas a year or two ago, etc. Those would have to fit under your "program defining win" I would think. But where are they now, still one of the lowest budgets in the country, still playing 2-3 big payday road games a year, still only play 5 home games a year (unless they get a LR game).

No such thing as a program defining win. You have to go on a stretch of winning seasons to define (redefine) the program. The stretch of NO bowls did that for us for awhile. Thats what we need, winning seasons and bowl games, not searching for the mysterious program defining win.

[UNT90]

OK, I'll admit you make some fair points on some things related to scheduling, but there is no such thing as a "program defining win". ULM is case in point. Beat Alabama in 07, beat Arkansas a year or two ago, etc. Those would have to fit under your "program defining win" I would think. But where are they now, still one of the lowest budgets in the country, still playing 2-3 big payday road games a year, still only play 5 home games a year (unless they get a LR game).

No such thing as a program defining win. You have to go on a stretch of winning seasons to define (redefine) the program. The stretch of NO bowls did that for us for awhile. Thats what we need, winning seasons and bowl games, not searching for the mysterious program defining win.

You are halfway there, but fail to consider a couple of things.

First, there are 100k plus alumni in the DFW area that have NEVER had their head turned by a UNT win in football. Ever. We have a much different culture and much different problems than ULM. We NEED That win to be viewed as valid by a lot of our own alumni. Not the media, not recruits, not by other programs, but by our own alumni. Let that sink in for a minute.

Second, you are right. The win alone will not cause any long term change unless that win happens in the middle of a string of winning seasons and bowl appearances.

As you mentioned, this is but one of a whole host of issues with the way the AD schedules college football games. Multiple 5 home game seasons is by far the biggest offense.

[Arkstfan]

"A" win is not program defining.

The Sunday after AState beat TAMU my column on my site said the win wasn't that big unless it was given context. ULM has had some big wins but how many of those wins came in championship seasons? 0.

Beat a big name and finish up bad or mediocre and it was "any given Saturday". If it is part of a run, then it shows just how good you are. AState choked away giving the TAMU win context. We blew a two score lead in the fourth quarter at ULL, got plowed by Bama and blew a two score fourth quarter lead at FIU in one three game stretch and despite that went to Troy with a chance to tie for the league and take it by tie-breaker over Troy with the New Orleans Bowl on hand to give us a bid if we won and Birmingham sitting there ready to invite Troy if we won. Fell on our face and NOB took Troy and Bham took an ACC leftover.

Most hardcore AState fans if asked to name the biggest win will say Kent State because we beat a ranked team with our defensive coordinator coaching and Gus sitting in Auburn or last year's win over Ball State because we blocked a FG to win and put the Harsin error to bed. Those wins had context.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Arkstfan

[Ben Gooding]

It's nice to put wins in context, but by no means is Kent State a big win regardless of context. Biggest win the the Coach Mac era was IMO v Rice on Halloween night last year. It solidified that we were conference contenders, but even then it was against a conference opponent at home. Hard to call that a game changer, great win nevertheless.

[UNT90]

"A" win is not program defining.

The Sunday after AState beat TAMU my column on my site said the win wasn't that big unless it was given context. ULM has had some big wins but how many of those wins came in championship seasons? 0.

Beat a big name and finish up bad or mediocre and it was "any given Saturday". If it is part of a run, then it shows just how good you are. AState choked away giving the TAMU win context. We blew a two score lead in the fourth quarter at ULL, got plowed by Bama and blew a two score fourth quarter lead at FIU in one three game stretch and despite that went to Troy with a chance to tie for the league and take it by tie-breaker over Troy with the New Orleans Bowl on hand to give us a bid if we won and Birmingham sitting there ready to invite Troy if we won. Fell on our face and NOB took Troy and Bham took an ACC leftover.

Most hardcore AState fans if asked to name the biggest win will say Kent State because we beat a ranked team with our defensive coordinator coaching and Gus sitting in Auburn or last year's win over Ball State because we blocked a FG to win and put the Harsin error to bed. Those wins had context.

It's easy to say when you have one of those wins in your pocket.

We don't.

We are just in a far different situation than you guys. A lot of our own alums make fun of our athletics programs if they think of them at all. We have long been considered the athletic joke of the metroplex, even by a lot of our own alumni.

A win like A&M is SORELY needed by this program. It would be a far more meaningful win if it came in a conference championship season, granted, but this program has NEVER experienced such a win.

EVER.

We have a very unique set of circumstances that really can't be compared to others when we are talking how desperate we are for a meaningful win.

ULM has them, ULL has them, Arkansas St. has them. UNT doesn't.

For us, it's a step toward our own alumni taking athletics seriously. I would say a small step, except we really don't know, because we have never had this type of win.

Edited December 17, 2014 by UNT90