Who's Gonna Care?

[Green P1]

The subopic of the When&What did you graduate with thread with got me thinking. The idea that so many posters experienced Dickey's Bowls or JJ's Conference Tourney/Big Dance fun times is really interesting.

For me a combination of NO Bowl Win my freshman year, Buckles destroying people at safety, and general Jamario awesomeness, along with along with the sport I seem to remember called basketball...served their purpose to suck me into the fold for a decade plus.

I used to schedule my life around every home roundball and oblongball sports game, with vacations scheduled around said bowl or tournament games. I haven't sniffed a roundball game since 3/4 through Benny's first season and for the first time ever found my oblong season tickets going unused 3 of the 4 final games this season.

I feel dirty every single game I miss, but eventually you just quit letting things ruin your day/week when you legitametly don't feel it does the same for those in charge of all of it.

I wonder how many else of my peer group are still hanging in or how long you can expect those that didn't get to see the fun I experienced to stick it out?

Edited December 12, 2014 by Green P1

[greenminer]

Preface for context, since I didn't answer in the other thread: I am a Dickey bowl-era guy. Graduated in '03. I marched on the field for the 2001 NO Bowl vs. Colorado State. Playing America The Beautiful that year with Red Raider band atCowboys Stadium was very special. As was sharing the field with the Ram band as we held together that football-field wide America-shaped flag during the NO Bowl halftime show.

Chris Davis is one of my personal all-time favorite Mean Green ballers.

The last 3 years it has been:

1 football game/year. Absence mostly due to work/travel on weekends.

1 basketball game/year. Maybe. I remember I attended the UTEP game last year. I don't know if I would go on weekends now even if I didn't have to work. I used to be counted on 5+ mid-week games every year, even when living in Lewisville and working at 6am the next morning.

Now, I'm just another victim of Benford.

halfway through Benny's first year, I canceled my MG Online Premium account and personally emailed RV. It was not about the feed quality (or lack thereof), it was about the quality of basketball. He was gracious enough to personally reply, citing reasons that only left me wondering if the ol' ball coach had any eye at all for good game. I knew I was witnessing a train wreck in the making.

EDIT FOR FOLLOW UP THOUGHT:

I know I am no ball coach, but I feel after years of watching both games, I have developed an eye for basic things: effort. players inspired/executing. I think the same could be said about a lot of us: even though we will never be in a position to coach professionally, our opinions still have validity. There are tons of free resources out there available to all of us to learn the game. Resources authored by the legends who started the sports.

I've personally watched through several rebuilding projects between UNT/UTEP. Some notable ones include Mike Price and Billy Gillespie at UTEP. Todd Dodge/Karen Aston, etc at UNT.

Even during a poor start, you can almost immediately see whether this coach was the right hire. BG's first team won 6 games. But the effort and focus on the court was night and day different. There was nothing shameful in those 15+ losses. Coaches from other teams were very vocal (positively) about BG's 1st year...seemingly way beyond normal coach speak.

It only took a couple games with Benford to identify something was terribly wrong. The hire seemed okay up front, but it became apparent very quickly that this guy would be learning on the job. It's the lack of action since then that has me beyond angry. I'm just apathetic about the whole bball program right now.

Edited December 12, 2014 by greenminer

[NT03]

Yup

[MeanGreenTexan]

I was on-campus for all of the Dickey Bowls games. I too loved Davis, but no one dominated their sport at UNT during my time there more than Marilyn Marin did on the pitch.

Still have my season tickets at Apogee. Missed 2 games this year, but made the trip to Rice. Haven't been to a basketball game since Mitchell graduated.

[oldguystudent]

I knew of North Texas in the late 90s when they joined the Big West, but knew nothing about them. I have this memory later of being in a hotel room and seeing North Texas on the television. I remember they called North Texas something like the class of the Sun Belt and mentioned their running game. I can't for the life of me remember what year that was or even what city I was in.

I moved to Texas at the end of 2004, so North Texas would've been in its last bowl game right when I showed up. I knew there was this university kinda sorta down the road, and I had it in my head that they'd been pretty good. I was always kind of curious about going to a game since I'd never been to a college football game before, but it just never happened. I do remember going to the website and not much understanding the ticket purchasing concept, and I kept reading about this deck thing, but wasn't sure if there was beer throughout the stadium, and if not, how I would last three hours (I drank a LOT more back then).

My first live exposure to UNT sports was the 56-26 beat down by Tulsa. Kid and I wandered too and fro at the tailgate, not really knowing what to do. The tailgate scene at Fouts was not nearly as welcoming as the scene at Apogee. There were a bunch of secret wristband societies that I never did understand.

I left altogether after the 2009 game against Western Kentucky. I'd seen enough, I'd been chastised for voicing my opinion, and I couldn't believe (and still don't) that there was so many people who were still Dodge disciples and who found him damn near infallible.

I came back quietly and anonymously for the Fouts finale against Kansas State.

I've been back with football in full swing since Apogee opened. I think I've missed one game because I was working (I reiterate that those weeknight games suck balls for us working stiffs).

To fly's point, I get one thing now. This is our place. This is the place we come home to, we congregate in.

On the other hand, caring? About the outcome on the field or court? Meh. I've become super numb to it. I focus my energies on seeing my friends and bringing guest to show them the gameday experience and a little Denton fun afterward. These are my entertainment dollars and my precious few available recreational hours. I'm not going to ruin them by stressing over numbers on a scoreboard.

I'm fortunate to live a very short drive from Denton, and am somewhat considering moving up there once I'm not faced with the consequences of the kid having to change schools. I love Denton, I love Apogee, I love gameday.

Honestly, if I ultimately end up moving back to California (this is pretty likely), I will probably keep my club seats, but only attend at most one game a year. The rest I'll probably end up donating to some worthy students who want to make noisy spectacles of themselves among the monocles, because that image makes me laugh.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

I think there are three main eras of North Texas fandom: the old 70's Fry era fans, early 00's Dickey bowl fans, and late 00's/early 10's JJ b-ball & 2013 HoD fans.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

My biggest concern is slipping into another dark era of bad football and bad basketball and losing out on all the potential fans we could continue to accumulate in the next few years.

[forevereagle]

I think there are three main eras of North Texas fandom: the old 70's Fry era fans, early 00's Dickey bowl fans, and late 00's/early 10's JJ b-ball & 2013 HoD fans.

I would agree, and that we only have three big eras is just sad.

[hickoryhouse]

Here from 00 - 06. Went to 2 of the New Orleans Bowls and was hooked. Patrick Cobbs and Jamario Thomas was greatness. Been paying attention closely ever since and got my first season tickets this year. I hate to admit it, but I haven't even thought about BB since Mitchell had his second season destroyed by Benford. As for caring about FB results, I probably do care a bit too much but I have gotten used to the losing over the years so the annoyance and disappointment still exists, but is significantly less than it used to be.

[UNT90]

I think there are three main eras of North Texas fandom: the old 70's Fry era fans, early 00's Dickey bowl fans, and late 00's/early 10's JJ b-ball & 2013 HoD fans.

Don't forget the fans that were in school in 1988 and 1989.

We went to the NCAA tournament in the Spring of 88, then turned around and had some really good victories in out of conference play in the fall of 1988, including a loss at UT that was straight highway robbery.We were then ranked #1 in FCS to start the 1989 football season.

The owner of this board, numerous posters on this board, and many people that tailgate are also from this era. Don't leave us out.

[ChristopherRyanWilkes]

Don't forget the fans that were in school in 1988 and 1989.

We went to the NCAA tournament in the Spring of 88, then turned around and had some really good victories in out of conference play in the fall of 1988, including a loss at UT that was straight highway robbery.We were then ranked #1 in FCS to start the 1989 football season.

The owner of this board, numerous posters on this board, and many people that tailgate are also from this era. Don't leave us out.

Good point -- Also around the time the great George Dunham became a fan.

[Ryan Munthe]

I just don't get the negativity at the moment. Basketball could go either way this year, so that's a moot point but one down year in football, and fans are dropping like flies? Last year was probably NT's finest football moment as a fan. Beautiful stadium, a real coach, a competitive budget, competitive salaries, real helmets, alternate uniforms, new conference full of Texas teams, record student attendance, Denton Game Day Champion/shuttle initiative...and you know as well as I do, Mac is going to get a highly respected D coordinator.

Sorry if I just don't get the negativity because this season was such a disappointment. Am I disappointed? Let's just say if you knew me, the answer would be yes. More so than I'd say many people would assume I would be, I think. Do I think football is pointed up? Absolutely. And do I think men's basketball is pointed up? I do.

Much has been made of recruiting, but I just don't buy recruiting rankings. Mac is looking for players that fit his system, and he's done a decent job of it. Once they're here, he builds them up. This year, I thought the QB position was going to be much better. It wasn't, I was wrong. But despite the harping on Mac's recruiting, I think the rest of the team held up well, and there's a lot of talent there redshirting. If you take away some of the more insane QB performances we had, this is a 6-6/7-5 which is respectful. If we can get a real solid D1 quarterback in here (whether or not they're on the roster or not) this team can make the jump.

I guess that my inability to be negative about the direction of the program makes me not a real fan.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Ryan Munthe

[forevereagle]

but one down year in football, and fans are dropping like flies?

One could argue that we had one up year.

[Ryan Munthe]

One could argue that we had one up year.

Because it took a few years to build Dodge players up, yes. Most of them substantially got--here we go, larger and faster--under Mac.

We went from perennial bottom 10/20 to receiving votes in 2013. If you think that Mac can't pull us out of the hole dug this year, then I don't know what else you need to see.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Ryan Munthe

[VideoEagle]

I guess that my inability to be negative about the direction of the program makes me not a real fan.

No, it doesn't. I don't feel negative either about the program, just disappointed in the results this year. I'm not happy with five home games next year, but from the news articles I've found there are going to be signifiant ups and downs over the course of scheduling in a five year period. If Berry Alvarez is commenting on the scheduling challenges for Wisconsin, then I can understand the challenges in Denton. That doesn't excuse a five game schedule by any means, but I does help to explain it.

I think it's all in where you draw your line. Some are very, very upset while other aren't happy but are seeing some positives. A few appear to be looking for reasons to be upset, but I think of that as a personal issue with them.

It's not all green and good, but it's certainly not all bad either!

[forevereagle]

Because it took a few years to build Dodge players up, yes. Most of them substantially got--here we go, larger and faster--under Mac.

We went from perennial bottom 10/20 to receiving votes in 2013. If you think that Mac can't pull us out of the hole dug this year, then I don't know what else you need to see.

Not saying that he can't, but the one good year in ten bad ones is a lot of the reason that there is so much negativity. If Mac can right the ship next year and put together a few good ones, then the tone should change. This is a beat up fan base right now since we don't have basketball to hang out hat on when football is down.

[UNT90]

I just don't get the negativity at the moment. Basketball could go either way this year, so that's a moot point but one down year in football, and fans are dropping like flies? Last year was probably NT's finest football moment as a fan. Beautiful stadium, a real coach, a competitive budget, competitive salaries, real helmets, alternate uniforms, new conference full of Texas teams, record student attendance, Denton Game Day Champion/shuttle initiative...and you know as well as I do, Mac is going to get a highly respected D coordinator.

Sorry if I just don't get the negativity because this season was such a disappointment. Am I disappointed? Let's just say if you knew me, the answer would be yes. More so than I'd say many people would assume I would be, I think. Do I think football is pointed up? Absolutely. And do I think men's basketball is pointed up? I do.

Much has been made of recruiting, but I just don't buy recruiting rankings. Mac is looking for players that fit his system, and he's done a decent job of it. Once they're here, he builds them up. This year, I thought the QB position was going to be much better. It wasn't, I was wrong. But despite the harping on Mac's recruiting, I think the rest of the team held up well, and there's a lot of talent there redshirting. If you take away some of the more insane QB performances we had, this is a 6-6/7-5 which is respectful. If we can get a real solid D1 quarterback in here (whether or not they're on the roster or not) this team can make the jump.

I guess that my inability to be negative about the direction of the program makes me not a real fan.

First, about the last paragraph: Grow up and stop whining. No one is saying you are a bad fan, so stop crying for attention. Just like those of us that are disappointed and are severely concerned about the direction of both programs aren't bad fans, right?

Right?

Recruiting is about 60% of the battle in college football, developing those recruits are also important. Macy's first full year of recruiting was 2012. A year in which he could sell his coaching newness and the promise of changing the losing culture of UNT football, along with a new stadium. He has, what, 6 guys left on the roster from that class?

That is bad recruiting and is very concerning. If that doesn't concern you, it's because you are more concerned with being an optimist than you are at looking at cold, hard numbers.

And that's fine, just don't get all pissy when people point out the problems with this program.

[Ryan Munthe]

First, about the last paragraph: Grow up and stop whining. No one is saying you are a bad fan, so stop crying for attention. Just like those of us that are disappointed and are severely concerned about the direction of both programs aren't bad fans, right?

Right?

Recruiting is about 60% of the battle in college football, developing those recruits are also important. Macy's first full year of recruiting was 2012. A year in which he could sell his coaching newness and the promise of changing the losing culture of UNT football, along with a new stadium. He has, what, 6 guys left on the roster from that class?

That is bad recruiting and is very concerning. If that doesn't concern you, it's because you are more concerned with being an optimist than you are at looking at cold, hard numbers.

And that's fine, just don't get all pissy when people point out the problems with this program.

I think those are valid points. I think those are points Mac would concede. I personally don't think it is reason to be so down on the program. And I know you want to argue about scheduling as well, but even that I think is not enough to be so flipping down that fans are talking about their lack of interest.

And no, I'm not calling anyone out. Those are valid points. To me, it's not enough for me to stop caring, or even dim my fan level at all.

Also, is it possible for you to NOT be condescending in your posts? I think that's more common than bad football at NT.

[Green P1]

I'm just glad that someone finally assured me that the complete and total destruction of our basketball program is moot.

There's one thing we don't have to worry about anymore!

[Quoner]

I'm just glad that someone finally assured me that the complete and total destruction of our basketball program is moot.

There's one thing we don't have to worry about anymore!

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Edited December 12, 2014 by Quoner

[Ben Gooding]

The direction of North Texas football is concerning. There is no way to sugar coat that. The program/roster/recruiting is in a fragile state right now. We are out recruited by almost everyone. We are consistently out recruiting SFA and SHSU. We are consistently being out recruited by everyone else in the state. With more commitment by the administration over the last 5-7 years there should be some form of consistency right now and there simply isn't any. Our current roster does not create a breathe of fresh air either. We are currently losing recruits and getting commits from guys that have more FCS offers than FBS offers. There is anxiety among the fan base that is creating the negativity because this is a very pivotal offseason and 2015 season. It's concerning. The optimists will jump on here and praise Mac (for winning in '13) with no real basis creating the optimism. I am following the recruiting trail here and there and it's not looking good. SMU is going to take anyone they want in DFW given they aren't a big time P5 recruit. We are instantly thrown out the window if TCU comes knocking. We have to hone in on East and West Texas and hope we get guys that pan out. Panning out at North Texas has been turned into the exception, not the norm. I am genuinely concerned. I am not an anti-McNulty advocate and I hope he succeeds in life, but this team doesn't need a QB that can come in and raise the bar, it HAS to have one or 2015 is spiraling as I'm typing this.

[flyonthewall]

Does anyone think that last year about this time the Texas Christian University Horny toads were happy with the direction of their program? What was their record last year? They damned near if not for some bad luck and some bad defense at the end of the Baylor game walked into the 4 team tournament this year. We should all tap the brakes a little on football....

Basketball.......another story.

[Ryan Munthe]

I'm just glad that someone finally assured me that the complete and total destruction of our basketball program is moot.

There's one thing we don't have to worry about anymore!

No, they've shown flashes of potential. For better or worse we're gonna have to deal with Benford growing pains.

[NT80]

Does anyone think that last year about this time the Texas Christian University Horny toads were happy with the direction of their program? What was their record last year? They damned near if not for some bad luck and some bad defense at the end of the Baylor game walked into the 4 team tournament this year. We should all tap the brakes a little on football....

Basketball.......another story.

This season isn't NT fan's first rodeo with bad football at North Texas.

Last year was false hope again to get out of this hole; Yes, we're mad!!

Do you really want to compare UNT football with TCU football recently?

Here's NT's last 10 seasons:

2005: 2-9

2006: 3-9

2007: 2-10

2008: 1-11

2009: 2-10

2010: 3-9

2011: 5-7

2012: 4-8

2013: 9-4

2014: 4-8

TCU's last 10 seasons:

2005: 11-1

2006: 11-2

2007: 8-5

2008: 11-2

2009: 12-1

2010: 13-0

2011: 11-2

2012: 7-6

2013: 4-8

2014: 11-1

[NT80]

No, they've shown flashes of potential. For better or worse we're gonna have to deal with Benford growing pains.

growing pains? You mean lack of X's and O's ability, ie Head Coaching stuff.