An off the wall question for the off season

casual fan · December 11, 2014

Could a conference be put together that rivals the monopoly of the big 5?

How about the Continental Conference with 16 teams starting with Boise, Air Force, NIU, Houston, BYU, Marshall, etc.

Ben Gooding · December 11, 2014

Could a conference be put together that rivals the monopoly of the big 5?

How about the Continental Conference with 16 teams starting with Boise, Air Force, NIU, Houston, BYU, Marshall, etc.

To answer your question, yes. And I have been lobbying for this for quite awhile.

Green P1 · December 11, 2014

nope

ChristopherRyanWilkes · December 11, 2014

As soon it started to compete they'd send the college football mafia and make sure every program was forced to shut down.

emmitt01 · December 11, 2014

As soon it started to compete they'd send the college football mafia and make sure every program was forced to shut down.

Nah, they'd just treat the best of the teams from that conference like whores and dangle the "come join our P5 conference and make more money" carrot. The conference would be dismantled within 5 years.

untjim1995 · December 11, 2014

That was the old MWC--see how long that took to get dismantled. TCU and Utah got bought off, BYU got incentivized to go Indy in football, and Boise State and SDSU were out the door to the Big East when that conference got dropped from being AQ.

Got5onIt · December 11, 2014

I don't think its possible. State governments are full of P5 alum and there's no way they'll allow the little guy to blossom over their own state institutions.....

untjim1995 · December 11, 2014

I think the reality for G5s is that their only hope of ever moving up is if the P5 conferences decide to expand for some reason and they have political sway in their state or are to get it done somehow. If the current P5s have 66 schools, inculding ND and BYU, the only hope is that something comes into play that says conferences are really run at maximum revenue with conferences of 16 teams and the P5 don't cannibalize the Big XII into themselves. That would give you 80 slots, meaning that you have 14 slots to go. That gives UConn, Cincy, USF, UCF, UH, East Carolina, Memphis, Boise State, Fresno State, San Diego State, UNLV, Nevada, New Mexico, and Air Force something to keep pushing hard for raising funds. Obviously, this is a pipedream for a lot of those teams listed, with the exceptions of UConn and Cincy, but its out there for them. Anyone else in the G5 doesn't stand a chance of ever gaining admittance into that cartel.

You could have the Pac-16 with its current teams + UNLV, Nevada, San Diego State, and Fresno State. The current big 12 become the Big 16 with its current members + Boise State, BYU, New Mexico, AFA, UH, and Memphis. The SEC adds East Carolina and USF to get to 16, the B1G adds UConn and Cincy, and the ACC added UCF and ND as a full member.

Again, there is zero chance this would ever happen, in part because the P5 doesn't want any of them, save for a few. But I suppose a creative AD and school could try to seel the alums of those G5 "giants" as having a chance, so they need to start raising funds immediately.

Arkstfan · December 11, 2014

Sixteen is insufficient, there is no combination of 16 that can produce even half of what one of the G5 leagues produces in revenue.

If you watch The Walking Dead you know the answer. A few walkers are no match for any halfway equipped person, but swarms can come in with such great numbers the best equipped and most skilled can't take them on.

The only solution is a LARGE league and 16 ain't large. No smaller than 24 and the ideal would be more like 32.

To make it work, you have to have schools in every time zone.

You have to have schools in every region within those time zones.

If you are serious about you don't waste time figuring out who has a fat budget for women's rowing or men's soccer. You look at four things. 1. Football facilities and funded football capital projects, 2. Basketball facilities and funded basketball capital projects, 3. Football salaries for head coach and assistants, 4. Men's basketball salaries for head coach and assistants.

If you are trying to take on the Power 5 football and men's basketball are all that matters. Kudos to those who pay the women's softball coach well but that's like judging a military's combat readiness based on how well their fire arms drill team performs.

You've got a serious problem in that you have a vast swath of the nation that does not fund its athletics programs at a high level. NIU football staff pay is highest in the MAC but below 10 CUSA schools (9 if you omit UAB and assume Rice is lower which I doubt) and below three Sun Belt (four if Troy delivers on their vow about pay) and is below everyone in MWC and AAC.

You really need some midwestern schools but can any step up in pay?

You have to find a network to love you. That means someone willing to slot games head-to-head vs. the Power 5 in addition to the usual off-beat dates and times.

The conference has to be so large to reach critical mass that it is really more an association than a conference in the traditional sense but that size geographic reach has to be large in order for there to not be a substitute to what is being offered.

That's the only way it can be done and if you do it, how do you get past the local squabbles about who is too close, I mean unworthy to be involved?

untjim1995 · December 11, 2014

I still like the idea of the P5s breaking away in football, letting the G5s and FCS form their own division, but keep the NCAA Tournament and the College World Series as is. I'd be just fine with that. We aren't ever going to be allowed to play on an even scale in football because of money and the size of the teams. But in hoops and in baseball, we all can compete fairly easily--see current versions of Wichita State, Northern Iowa, and Gonzaga in hoops, as well as your UC Irvine's or Cal State Fullerton's in baseball that make it to the CWS fairly often.

But the network idea is a good one, for say NBC, that has both its regular network and its NBC Sports Network. You can get a lot of football and basketball coverage for them to have for during the week. Even CBS College Sports could use the extra programming, too. This is all very possible, but only if the G5 schools are forced to band together. The only way that happens is for the P5s to split away first, causing the reality of the situation to crush the dreams of a few G5 schools who think they are a bigger deal than they really are.

Got5onIt · December 12, 2014

Sixteen is insufficient, there is no combination of 16 that can produce even half of what one of the G5 leagues produces in revenue.

If you watch The Walking Dead you know the answer. A few walkers are no match for any halfway equipped person, but swarms can come in with such great numbers the best equipped and most skilled can't take them on.

The only solution is a LARGE league and 16 ain't large. No smaller than 24 and the ideal would be more like 32.

To make it work, you have to have schools in every time zone.
You have to have schools in every region within those time zones.

If you are serious about you don't waste time figuring out who has a fat budget for women's rowing or men's soccer. You look at four things. 1. Football facilities and funded football capital projects, 2. Basketball facilities and funded basketball capital projects, 3. Football salaries for head coach and assistants, 4. Men's basketball salaries for head coach and assistants.

If you are trying to take on the Power 5 football and men's basketball are all that matters. Kudos to those who pay the women's softball coach well but that's like judging a military's combat readiness based on how well their fire arms drill team performs.

You've got a serious problem in that you have a vast swath of the nation that does not fund its athletics programs at a high level. NIU football staff pay is highest in the MAC but below 10 CUSA schools (9 if you omit UAB and assume Rice is lower which I doubt) and below three Sun Belt (four if Troy delivers on their vow about pay) and is below everyone in MWC and AAC.

You really need some midwestern schools but can any step up in pay?

You have to find a network to love you. That means someone willing to slot games head-to-head vs. the Power 5 in addition to the usual off-beat dates and times.

The conference has to be so large to reach critical mass that it is really more an association than a conference in the traditional sense but that size geographic reach has to be large in order for there to not be a substitute to what is being offered.

That's the only way it can be done and if you do it, how do you get past the local squabbles about who is too close, I mean unworthy to be involved?

If the G5 could break away and do this, they would need to pitch something to the public that's just enough to differentiate the league but also makes the public want to watch/support it. Kind of an ABA & AFL vs NBA & NFL back in the day. The leagues had differences that appealed enough to all fans. Question is, what does the G5 have the P5's do not??? Edited December 12, 2014 by Got5onIt

greenminer · December 12, 2014

I read years ago that 95+% of the traffic through the major sports networks (CBS/ESPN/etc) is for schools that are already members of the P5 (this was, like, 10 years ago).

I don't think those 95% give 2 cents what the rest of the schools do or look like.

Ben Gooding · December 12, 2014

I read years ago that 95+% of the traffic through the major sports networks (CBS/ESPN/etc) is for schools that are already members of the P5 (this was, like, 10 years ago).

I don't think those 95% give 2 cents what the rest of the schools do or look like.

Maybe, maybe not. CUSA has to try and do something and their namesake alone would fit the bill to what is being talked about on here. Go our and try to pluck the best G5 universities and bring them in to create a mega conference. Pick large markets and raise expectations as a conference. Also, spend millions in marketing around the country. It's a sink or swim crossroad right now. Gotta try anything that can reasonably make one relevant.

Ben Gooding · December 12, 2014

To add to this, 32 teams collectively broke down into 8 team divisions that geographically make sense. Call them East, West, North and South. Play a round robin amongst the divisions to create division champs and hold a 4-team playoff for CUSA championship. If you can't beat the system, clog the system.

Got5onIt · December 12, 2014

To add to this, 32 teams collectively broke down into 8 team divisions that geographically make sense. Call them East, West, North and South. Play a round robin amongst the divisions to create division champs and hold a 4-team playoff for CUSA championship. If you can't beat the system, clog the system.

I like this idea. Give the P5's the finger and say we're going to compete with you directly with our own rules. If it's successful enough, maybe the new league can match the P5 in popularity & talent after 10 years or so....

casual fan · December 12, 2014

How about a scenario where Notre Dame and BYU get together and make their own conference.

Notre Dame agrees to 25% of the revenue and BYU gets 15%.

They invite 12 other teams to join them with each team getting 5%.

Start with

East West

Notre Dame BYU

Cincinnati Boise

Navy Air Force

Temple Houston

Memphis San Diego St

Plus 4 more

They could have a heck of a TV contract and a really tough football conference.

Would the other schools take 5% of this conference rather than 7 or 8% of their current conference?

Got5onIt · December 12, 2014

How about a scenario where Notre Dame and BYU get together and make their own conference.
Notre Dame agrees to 25% of the revenue and BYU gets 15%.
They invite 12 other teams to join them with each team getting 5%.
Start with
East West
Notre Dame BYU
Cincinnati Boise
Navy Air Force
Temple Houston
Memphis San Diego St
Plus 4 more

They could have a heck of a TV contract and a really tough football conference.
Would the other schools take 5% of this conference rather than 7 or 8% of their current conference?

I don't think ND has any incentive to change anything or share any money. They already get special treatment written into any rules or ranking systems and have a lucrative TV deal with NBC. Edited December 12, 2014 by Got5onIt