Thoughts on C-USA UAB Replacement Timing

[UNT90]

If nothing changes, and I kinda don't really see it happening because P5 has too much power, money, and political influence (I mean, really, Condi Rice on the selection committee?), then G5 is pretty much already there with FCS in relevancy. At least, if it isn't today, it's kinda like the guy who discovered the first section of the Titanic full of water and announced that it was a mathematical certainty that the ship was going down.

So G5 has a choice. Fight it tooth and nail, or get the band together for one last song before a watery death envelops us all. I kinda see the latter happening since this is really a tiny David vs. insurmountable Goliath fight at this point. They chose to let that happen back in the 1A/1AA split and television deregulation. The big boys have never looked back.

So what do I as a fan of little David do? I really don't know except that there will be beer involved.

OR...

They could band together and use the law to expose one of the biggest monopolies in our capitalist society today, and then if that doesn't work, stay bonded together and do what others suggested.

I think you are becoming the Clayton Willuams of UNT sports fans. ;-)

[TIgreen01]

Want to reform the G5?

Let's start with an easy step that OUGHT to embraced by everyone.

Reform the G5 bowls.

Take a tiny baby step and take the four champs not selected for the access bowl and pit them in two bowl games. Rank 'em 1-4 and have 1 play 2 and 3 play 4. Odds of producing ranked teams goes up.

Got the courage to think a little bigger?

The five leagues starting next year have 27 ties with Navy going to AAC (28 counting access) and only six pit G5 vs. P5 (counting access).

Dump the league ties and take 22 bowl ties not hooked to the P5 and guarantee each league same number of selections they have now but flex the selections (not the stupid oh we take this league in these years and these leagues in other years) put together a selection board with commissioners, some bowl folks and TV try to put together logical games that respect geography while trying to make good games that TV sense.

Feel really courageous?

Have the stones to understand five conferences that don't move the needle much for TV negotiating TV independently is the height of stupidity.

Throw all the TV rights into one LLC to negotiate TV. The model for sharing the money was in place for around 40 years. The model the NCAA used. Each network contracted with pays first a flat fee to be part of the deal which is split equally then pays off a rate card for each game selected. The price on the rate card reflects the network carrying the game, the day of the week and the time slot. The network picking up a game writes a check to the two teams playing for the game. If you are more attractive to TV you get on, you get paid more.

TV can no longer leverage one conference against the other to force a deal by pointing out they can always get another conference that has teams in the region that will be willing to take the money.

1) Good stuff. My opinion on the ArkSt to CUSA as UAB's replacement is heavily influenced by the thought that with ASU back as conference mates, we get more posts from you.

2) Do all G5s consider themselves close enough to equal to go along with this? Or does the AAC still feel they are better than everyone? Here at UNT, we KNOW that smu feels they are better than us. Is that true across the conference? How do we ever get to a point where the G5 schools finally start working together, rather than as independents? What has to happen?

[DeepGreen]

Glad tcu didn't have the attitude we have. Neither does boise, niu, or byu. This fan base has zero expectations and the ones that do get bashed on for not being "good fans".

Exactly! Based on some of the above replies, why don't we just merge(drop down) to the FCS league? That's all we will be is a slightly better version of the FCS.

[TIgreen01]

Glad tcu didn't have the attitude we have. Neither does boise, niu, or byu. This fan base has zero expectations and the ones that do get bashed on for not being "good fans".

I get tired of hearing the argument that the fans should be the ones setting the expectations for our AD.

Our leadership (BOR, Prez, etc) have funded us at a point where we are top 3 in the conference in revenues and budget. THEY are setting the expectation that we should be competitive with the top quarter of our peers by funding us at this level. Our fan base needs to realize that our administration DOES have expectations for this program. People want to set their own expectations and ignore the only expectations that actually matter. This is where I think many get confused.

Edited December 10, 2014 by TIgreen01

[Arkstfan]

1) Good stuff. My opinion on the ArkSt to CUSA as UAB's replacement is heavily influenced by the thought that with ASU back as conference mates, we get more posts from you.

2) Do all G5s consider themselves close enough to equal to go along with this? Or does the AAC still feel they are better than everyone? Here at UNT, we KNOW that smu feels they are better than us. Is that true across the conference? How do we ever get to a point where the G5 schools finally start working together, rather than as independents? What has to happen?

The last great cooperation effort that I know of. While CFP was being negotiated the five leagues agreed they would walk from the discussion unless they gave up a certain percentage of revenue. They walked in the room, the Power 5 said "We will give you this amount but it's not negotiatable" Some how the five managed to not say "Swell that's more than we were asking for" and screw up the deal.

A brief history of cooperation.

Prior to the last BCS deal that covered 2010-13, The AQ propose a change to the buster rule. Instead of a team only qualifying if they met the criteria (Be a champion, rated 12 or better, or be 16 or better and rated above an AQ champ) the criteria would be this. The five non-AQ champs would be rated 1-5. On the first Saturday in December the #1 and #2 rated non-AQ champs would meet with the winner guaranteed a slot in the BCS. MWC and CUSA opposed the play-in concept so it died. Shortly after it was rejected MWC put forward their own plan to revise the BCS that used various criteria to determine 7 AQ leagues, needless to say that plan got support from one of the 11 conferences.

And while we are at it. Remember the awful greedy BCS? The six AQ leagues shared the revenue equally. There was a token payment of around $4 million for placing a second team (AQ schools have been known to spend up to two million traveling to a BCS game). There was no well the Big 10 and SEC are stronger and command more TV viewers, so we need a bigger share than the Big XII, Big East and Pac-12.

The BCS powers turned to the non-AQ and said "we will give you this amount of money, you figure out how to divide it." The only way they were able to get an agreement was to compromise with the MWC and CUSA demands that a portion of the money be divided based on the power ratings of the leagues, they wanted all of it divided based on performance. I imagine the AQ commissioners got a big laugh any time the non-AQ folks complained about how the big boys hoarded the money since they shared equally within their group.

Go trawl the Marshall and NIU message boards, two fan bases who feel they got shafted because they landed in a champion vs. champion bowl and didn't get a match-up they "deserve".

Hell read this board, UNT is two years removed from Sun Belt membership and the league is beneath many of the posters here.

The G5 are doomed to their lot because it is a giant crab bucket where anyone trying to crawl out is grabbed and pulled back in.

AAC doesn't want a combined TV deal that could make them four million per team if there is a chance MWC could make that as well and some CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt team could make three million in a good year. Right now they can say they make more than double CUSA, why would they want a deal where CUSA makes 75% of what they make, even if the dollar gap remains the same? It hurts how they position themselves. Why would they want a deal where a Sun Belt champ running the table might get a TV slot they have now?

SMU doesn't want North Texas recruiting under the same banner they recruit under. Why would UTSA want TXST to recruit under the same banner they are under?

Edited December 10, 2014 by Arkstfan

[Arkstfan]

I get tired of hearing the argument that the fans should be the ones setting the expectations for our AD.

Our leadership (BOR, Prez, etc) have funded us at a point where we are top 3 in the conference in revenues and budget. THEY are setting the expectation that we should be competitive with the top quarter of our peers by funding us at this level. Our fan base needs to realize that our administration DOES have expectations for this program. People want to set their own expectations and ignore the only expectations that actually matter. This is where I think many get confused.

Success in athletics does not start with the Board of Regents, the President, the AD.

It starts with the mob in the parking lot. If the mob in the parking lot is bugging the life out of them they feel they have to do something (that's why you see a 6-6 coach fired at Houston, it's why Nebraska made a change).

If the mob is silent, then hey they are fine with where things are, I can devote my energy to something else.

As the saying goes, "You get what you tolerate".

There are obviously real financial caps on what the administration can carve out to support athletics but if the mob in the parking lot is content there is no reason to work extra hard to find ways to increase the support.

In December of 2010, AState fired Steve Roberts after a second 4-8 season took him to 45-63. But the mob had lit the torches and grabbed the pitchforks earlier. A year prior in 2009 when he was 4-8 and was 41-55 overall the mob was starting to turn and the reason why they turned was because it was discovered that Roberts had been denied an extension at 6-6 in 2008. Why was that a big deal, because an email was uncovered where he complained about being denied an extension that year when he had been granted one the previous year at 5-7. He wanted to know why 6-6 wasn't worthy. Fans wanted to know what was wrong with the administration to sneak through an extension at 5-7.

It got ugly in 2009 and much much uglier in 2010.

When Roberts was fired, the AD started piddling around with a search and the fans went ballistic and were backed up by my site, the Jonesboro newspaper, ArkansasSports360.com, and others demanding that the administration not waste our time and hire Hugh Freeze. The AD didn't want to hire Freeze but the heat got turned up so high that president ordered him to hire Freeze.

The coaching search expected to last 10 to 14 days lasted three days because the fans by God demanded it get done.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Arkstfan

[Cerebus]

If the mob is silent, then hey they are fine with where things are, I can devote my energy to something else.

As the saying goes, "You get what you tolerate".

+1 Million Angry Scrappys.

This should be marked Best Answer to every thread.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Cerebus

[untbowler]

It got ugly in 2009 and much much uglier in 2010.

When Roberts was fired, the AD started piddling around with a search and the fans went ballistic and were backed up by my site, the Jonesboro newspaper, ArkansasSports360.com, and others demanding that the administration not waste our time and hire Hugh Freeze. The AD didn't want to hire Freeze but the heat got turned up so high that president ordered him to hire Freeze.

The coaching search expected to last 10 to 14 days lasted three days because the fans by God demanded it get done.

Wow and the fans got it right you guys are on to your 4th straight bowl game.

[Arkstfan]

And the AD got fired not long after we hired Gus.

He couldn't figure out how to raise money to build an indoor practice facility, renovate the press box or build a new ops center.

Today two are under construction and the third probably breaks ground next fall.

[FirefightnRick]

So your Mob doesn't Praise in Public and Criticise In Private?

Rick

[untjim1995]

And the AD got fired not long after we hired Gus.

He couldn't figure out how to raise money to build an indoor practice facility, renovate the press box or build a new ops center.

Today two are under construction and the third probably breaks ground next fall.

That's cool...

Our AD will never get fired here. No matter what...

[UNT90]

And the AD got fired not long after we hired Gus.

He couldn't figure out how to raise money to build an indoor practice facility, renovate the press box or build a new ops center.

Today two are under construction and the third probably breaks ground next fall.

Our AD can't figure out how to push Mean Green Club Membership past 1,000, isn't honest about scheduling football games (not answering whether we will have a 5 home game season despite being asked multiple times and knowing the answer the entire time), openly blames players for HIS MISTAKE of hiring an amazingly subpar coach on basketball, and has a record of over 100 games below .500 in the 3 major sports in his time at UNT.

Yet many are perfectly fine with him because they can talk to him on the phone.

Glad to see you guys doing it right while we continue to cluster F around with an AD that has proven time and again he can't get the job done.

No wonder we are historically terrible.

[DeepGreen]

But........but........didn't RV single-handedly raise the funds to build Apogee Stadium?

[SilverEagle]

But........but........didn't RV single-handedly raise the funds to build Apogee Stadium?

...You said that just to get me started didn't you?................

[wardly]

Rick got the stadium done, which none of his predecessors were able to do. Since North Texas alums generally are all mouth and no money, the stadium costs doubled before we could get enough committed to allow us to bond out the rest. You R.V. haters may criticize some of his hires, and rightfully so,but before his arrival the only dedicated new athletic building built since my freshman year of 61' was a piss ant 3,000+. sq. ft. athletic administration building Hayden Fry pushed thru. At least give the devil his due.

[SilverEagle]

Rick got the stadium done, which none of his predecessors were able to do. Since North Texas alums generally are all mouth and no money, the stadium costs doubled before we could get enough committed to allow us to bond out the rest. You R.V. haters may criticize some of his hires, and rightfully so,but before his arrival the only dedicated new athletic building built since my freshman year of 61' was a piss ant 3,000+. sq. ft. athletic administration building Hayden Fry pushed thru. At least give the devil his due.

None of RV's predecessors ever had a new stadium on their agenda......especially Helwig, who didn't like any agenda items that would have taken him away from playing golf.

RV only talked about a new stadium when fans brought it up at meetings. Which, I suppose, is the reason there have been fewer and fewer open meetings through the years.

Bottom line, no student vote, no stadium. That credit goes to UNTFlyer and his SGA colleagues. And BTW, is there any credit given to these guys on any plaques anywhere on the stadium? How about premium seats for five years or so?

I'd be willing to bet that all they got was a pat on the back, and as my dear departed father-in-law used to say "thanks till your better paid".

[forevereagle]

None of RV's predecessors ever had a new stadium on their agenda......especially Helwig, who didn't like any agenda items that would have taken him away from playing golf.

RV only talked about a new stadium when fans brought it up at meetings. Which, I suppose, is the reason there have been fewer and fewer open meetings through the years.

Bottom line, no student vote, no stadium. That credit goes to UNTFlyer and his SGA colleagues. And BTW, is there any credit given to these guys on any plaques anywhere on the stadium? How about premium seats for five years or so?

I'd be willing to bet that all they got was a pat on the back, and as my dear departed father-in-law used to say "thanks till your better paid".

I am not sure how RV gets 0 credit for the Apogee. He tried to get the vote passed earlier and it failed, so I don't see how you can say it wasn't on his agenda. Even if you give SGA 100% of the credit for the vote, which I am not sure is accurate (there was some information provided, videos made, etc. from the AD), Rick still had to get the plans together and make sure that the stadium got built. He does deserve credit for the stadium, but the SGA folks get credit as well.

[SilverEagle]

I am not sure how RV gets 0 credit for the Apogee. He tried to get the vote passed earlier and it failed, so I don't see how you can say it wasn't on his agenda. Even if you give SGA 100% of the credit for the vote, which I am not sure is accurate (there was some information provided, videos made, etc. from the AD), Rick still had to get the plans together and make sure that the stadium got built. He does deserve credit for the stadium, but the SGA folks get credit as well.

I wasn't suggesting O, but not far from it. That first vote you referred to was a disaster because the printed info (which I contributed $50 to the fund to have it printed) that was put out in public areas of the school clearly indicated that the athletic department was behind the vote. RV was advised (not by me) that that was not a good idea as too many anti-athletic dept students would jump all over it......which they did.

And making your media staff available to the SGA to help them produce PSA's for the vote is good but not a great deal. It just means that they (the media staff) were finally given something to do that amounts to a hill of beans.

I still say that the SGA people responsible for getting the vote done have never gotten any sort of permanent credit for the project. I hope I'm wrong.

[Arkstfan]

Regarding the stadium. One thing I didn't/don't understand was why it wasn't the front-burner issue in 2002, 2003, 2004 when people felt good.

The grand mystery of the Sun Belt to me was 2001-2010 everyone who went to the top said "Woo Hoo we are the best" and didn't do squat to stay there. Once AState and ULL got good we turned goodwill into concrete and steel.

[greenit]

Congrats.

[UNT90]

I am not sure how RV gets 0 credit for the Apogee. He tried to get the vote passed earlier and it failed, so I don't see how you can say it wasn't on his agenda. Even if you give SGA 100% of the credit for the vote, which I am not sure is accurate (there was some information provided, videos made, etc. from the AD), Rick still had to get the plans together and make sure that the stadium got built. He does deserve credit for the stadium, but the SGA folks get credit as well.

You call him Rick in this post. Do you know him personally? Do you have a relationship with him?

If the answer is yes and you aren't giving a ton of money, this is a problem.

[Eagle1855]

It starts with the mob in the parking lot. If the mob in the parking lot is bugging the life out of them they feel they have to do something (that's why you see a 6-6 coach fired at Houston, it's why Nebraska made a change).

UH has begun calling itself a Tier One school and believes it should have a Tier One football program to match it. They believe they can make the jump to the P5's just as TCU and others have done. They may be delusional, but that's a brand of impractical thinking I can get behind.

[forevereagle]

You call him Rick in this post. Do you know him personally? Do you have a relationship with him?

If the answer is yes and you aren't giving a ton of money, this is a problem.

Because I used his first name, you assume that I know him personally, not that I am just using a writing technique in order to keep from using the same word repetitively? This whole post is off topic, so not sure what you are getting at with it.

[untjim1995]

UH has begun calling itself a Tier One school and believes it should have a Tier One football program to match it. They believe they can make the jump to the P5's just as TCU and others have done. They may be delusional, but that's a brand of impractical thinking I can get behind.

UH has to hope for two things in regards to their P5 hopes:

1.) That Texas, OU, and Tech are willing top open up a spot for them in the Big XII. It would fill in a big market that a lot of Aggies and LSU alumni fit in, but the Big XII feels like they have a big enough presence there already with the alums of UT, Tech, Baylor, OU, and robably even OSU.

2.) That the Pac-12 expanded out to the East and decided that getting UT would never happen because of the LHN, so they come in and get UH for a Texas presence, since they have made great strides in academics to be considered Tier One. That could happen, especially if they got matched up with another school, such as Kansas, which is an AAU school. The Pac would get two more markets to jump into, especially one with huge recruiting ties.

IN reality, though, UH is looked at as a big city school, Cougar High is its reputation and probably always will be. Just like Cincy and Memphis, shaking off that reputation is tough, unless your academics are great (AAU membership like Pitt) or your athletics are great in both revenue sports (Louisville). All I see for UH's future is that thier are going to look like the King of the Left-Behinds...

[UNT90]

Because I used his first name, you assume that I know him personally, not that I am just using a writing technique in order to keep from using the same word repetitively? This whole post is off topic, so not sure what you are getting at with it.

If I assumed, I wouldn't have asked you a direct question. I did. You seem to say its a writing technique. If that is the case, fine. If you aren't giving a lot of money to this program and he spends time associating with you, that is a problem, because that time could be spent much more productively. Edited December 17, 2014 by UNT90