Recruiting Feedback

DeepGreen · December 7, 2014

O.K., this is the business side of me asking recruiting questions, so be patient.

I have no idea how many offers we make during a given recruiting season, but I would guess it's a bunch. And we surely miss out on players that we do offer. My questions is, do we ever get feedback from those recruits that do not commit to North Texas? Have we ever followed up and ask questions as to why they did not pick North Texas? Forget the fact that a recruit signed with TCU or Baylor, etc. Was there something about the Athletic Department, facilities, etc. that entered into their decision? How did they rate their overall tour of the facilities? Locker room? Training room? Sure, these recruits tell you what a great time they had, but did they really?

Can UNT ever learn from the recruiting process to improve what we do and what we have to offer. I know, who wants to fill out a long survey form? True. You have to make it as short and to the point as possible to get the feedback we are looking. And this holds true for all sports, but I like to spotlight football.

Maybe this is unheard of in college athletics. We have to fix what is wrong (short of some personnel changes, right UNT90? Who I agree with BTW).

Mean Green 93-98 · December 7, 2014

Interesting thoughts. I don't think recruits typically make it a point to tell a school why they didn't choose them--that's part of taking the high road, and it's part of moving on. Recruits might take a "rejection survey" as the opposite. I would imagine that coaches generally have a pretty good idea why they lost out on recruits, though.

GOMG2013 · December 7, 2014

Behind the scenes, they know why. The generic stuff is in print, but players and coaches talk. Its not hard to find out. The UNT coaches do go back and ask.

coaches make the same rounds to area schools several times a year. Lots of info is out there. If you cant find info straight from the source, then the closest school, coach or player will know.

UNT can get all the info they want, but without money, a lot of the recruiting process cant be fixed. so many elements go into a recruits decision, and only a few are controllable with the coaching staff.

UNT could still improve on the ones that dont cost lots of money.

DeepGreen · December 7, 2014

Recruits won't tell us anything if we don't ask. At least find out if we are lacking in some area where other programs stand out. Winning and tradition are obvious.

GOMG2013 · December 7, 2014

Like I posted in another thread, just building a stadium and one winning season isnt going to give you much of an edge. The administration and the fans do not realize what UNT is up against.

What may have worked in the past or at another school does not translate to current recruiting and recruiting in the state of Texas.

DeepGreen · December 7, 2014

Like I posted in another thread, just building a stadium and one winning season isnt going to give you much of an edge. The administration and the fans do not realize what UNT is up against.
What may have worked in the past or at another school does not translate to current recruiting and recruiting in the state of Texas.

Ah! Unlike Iowa, Iowa State, and Florida, UNT could be a tough place to recruit to. Well, duh! It takes a lot of work but other programs seem to be able to do it (La Tech, ULL, NIU, Toledo, etc.)

GOMG2013 · December 7, 2014

Ah! Unlike Iowa, Iowa State, and Florida, UNT could be a tough place to recruit to. Well, duh! It takes a lot of work but other programs seem to be able to do it (La Tech, ULL, NIU, Toledo, etc.)

ULL, la tech, NIUE, Toledo, are not in TEXAS!!!! The recruiting game in the state of Texas is a totally different animal. Seems like Mac and RV did not understand that, and the fans still don't. Mac and RV do not understand it as far as recruiting and marketing for football games. High school football in this state is like no other. 20K for a semifinal highschool playoff game.

There's several websites, magazines, and TV shows dedicated to highschool football in Texas. Some even dedicated solely to high school recruiting.

ColoradoEagle · December 8, 2014

ULL, la tech, NIUE, Toledo, are not in TEXAS!!!! The recruiting game in the state of Texas is a totally different animal. Seems like Mac and RV did not understand that, and the fans still don't. Mac and RV do not understand it as far as recruiting and marketing for football games. High school football in this state is like no other. 20K for a semifinal highschool playoff game.
There's several websites, magazines, and TV shows dedicated to highschool football in Texas. Some even dedicated solely to high school recruiting.

UTSA, Texas State, Rice, and Houston seem to do just fine. UTEP is the only other school in the state not pulling any top recruits currently, but I'm not sure who would want to go spend 4-5 years in El Paso anyway. Something is up with the way this staff recruits, and it has nothing to do with UNT.

GOMG2013 · December 8, 2014

UTSA, Texas State, Rice, and Houston seem to do just fine. UTEP is the only other school in the state not pulling any top recruits currently, but I'm not sure who would want to go spend 4-5 years in El Paso anyway. Something is up with the way this staff recruits, and it has nothing to do with UNT.

They are not doing just fine. What "top" recruits are those schools pulling?

And why would you even include Houston who is in a better conference, has been to several bowl games, has been ranked, has had players go to the NFL, in the middle of a big metro city, etc. thats not even a fair comparison...

And even with all those advantages Houston has,

I just looked at the rivals 2014 class and Houston had 26 commits. 2 with 3 stars. UNT had 17 with 4 with 3 stars. UTSA had 14. None with 3 stars. Rice had 19. 2 with 3 stars.

Mac has made mistakes, but come with something better. No need to make up problems. Theres enough real ones.

Edited December 8, 2014 by GOMG2013

Cerebus · December 8, 2014

Mac has made mistakes

...and recruiting is one of them. He missed out on almost two entire classes and that lack of depth showed. Lee was hurt badly enough early that we should have sat him and asked for a medical hardship waiver, but when there are 8 total dbs on the "active" roster it makes it impossible.

I really liked his recruiting last year, but I am very concerned on how this class ends up with a losing year and SMU recruiting on the upswing.

Like I have always said, THIS is the time of year in which games are won and lost.

ColoradoEagle · December 9, 2014

They are not doing just fine. What "top" recruits are those schools pulling?
And why would you even include Houston who is in a better conference, has been to several bowl games, has been ranked, has had players go to the NFL, in the middle of a big metro city, etc. thats not even a fair comparison...
Mac has made mistakes, but come with something better. No need to make up problems. Theres enough real ones.

Let's go by the current year instead of living in the past...

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=TX

Arkansas State 1

Houston 7

Louisiana Tech 3

Louisiana-Lafayette 2

Louisiana-Monroe 1

North Texas 0

Rice 7

SMU 4

Southern Miss 1

Texas State 3

Tulsa 1

UTSA 5

Full details...

School Rank

Arkansas State #8

Houston #18

Houston #98

Houston #130

Houston #145

Houston #172

Houston #202

Houston #212

Louisiana Tech #127

Louisiana Tech #213

Louisiana Tech #224

Louisiana-Lafayette #20

Louisiana-Lafayette #115

Louisiana-Monroe #21

Rice #116

Rice #140

Rice #162

Rice #168

Rice #174

Rice #192

Rice #222

SMU #16

SMU #77

SMU #167

SMU #193

Southern Miss #19

Texas State #181

Texas State #185

Texas State #190

Tulsa #188

UTSA #183

UTSA #217

UTSA #218

UTSA #219

UTSA #220

Ben Gooding · December 9, 2014

Let's go by the current year instead of living in the past...

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=TX

Arkansas State 1
Houston 7
Louisiana Tech 3
Louisiana-Lafayette 2
Louisiana-Monroe 1
North Texas 0
Rice 7
SMU 4
Southern Miss 1
Texas State 3
Tulsa 1
UTSA 5

Full details...

School Rank
Arkansas State #8
Houston #18
Houston #98
Houston #130
Houston #145
Houston #172
Houston #202
Houston #212
Louisiana Tech #127
Louisiana Tech #213
Louisiana Tech #224
Louisiana-Lafayette #20
Louisiana-Lafayette #115
Louisiana-Monroe #21
Rice #116
Rice #140
Rice #162
Rice #168
Rice #174
Rice #192
Rice #222
SMU #16
SMU #77
SMU #167
SMU #193
Southern Miss #19
Texas State #181
Texas State #185
Texas State #190
Tulsa #188
UTSA #183
UTSA #217
UTSA #218
UTSA #219
UTSA #220

Shhh, this doesn't fit the BS that someone is apparently feeding GOMG.

We can't recruit worth a damn. Make your excuses, but we are getting out recruited on a consistent basis by almost every FBS program in the state. Yay!

GOMG2013 · December 9, 2014

Let's go by the current year instead of living in the past...

http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/RecruitRankings?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&State=TX

Arkansas State 1
Houston 7
Louisiana Tech 3
Louisiana-Lafayette 2
Louisiana-Monroe 1
North Texas 0
Rice 7
SMU 4
Southern Miss 1
Texas State 3
Tulsa 1
UTSA 5

Full details...

School Rank
Arkansas State #8
Houston #18
Houston #98
Houston #130
Houston #145
Houston #172
Houston #202
Houston #212
Louisiana Tech #127
Louisiana Tech #213
Louisiana Tech #224
Louisiana-Lafayette #20
Louisiana-Lafayette #115
Louisiana-Monroe #21
Rice #116
Rice #140
Rice #162
Rice #168
Rice #174
Rice #192
Rice #222
SMU #16
SMU #77
SMU #167
SMU #193
Southern Miss #19
Texas State #181
Texas State #185
Texas State #190
Tulsa #188
UTSA #183
UTSA #217
UTSA #218
UTSA #219
UTSA #220

Ok, so you are looking at this current year and basing it off the rankings on the 247 website.

I look at offers to form an opinion on recruits. The amount of schools interested shows that more than a handful of schools see a prospect as D1 material. P5 schools have much more resources and staff for the recruiting process, so P5 offers, are a bonus. If a recruiter is listed, but no offer, I still consider it on the schools radar.

Another thing I consider are district awards, because the coaches in the district have played against these recruits a few times.

One more is local top 100 lists such as dmn top 100, gha top 100, east Texas top 100...because they cover the local high schools more closely than a website.

Im not sure how much work went into these 247 rankings, but im sure its a few guys on a website that looks at the highlights and offers.

I find it strange that Sam miller and Creighton Barr are not listed in these "expert" rankings. Their offer lists are better than most of the guys you have listed. Rice has two guys with very impressive offer lists. Other than that, I am not impressed by the other teams "top" recruits and would rather have Barr and miller than the 247 rated 3 stars with offers from 2 or 3 g5 schools.

With all that being said, I do think we need more recruits with more fbs offers and 2015 is not looking that strong overall, but once again, not too impressed by that 247 list.

If we can get d'erron Wilson, who just visited UNT...I will take our class over a lot of those schools.

Edited December 9, 2014 by GOMG2013

ColoradoEagle · December 9, 2014

Even looking at the DMN 100, again we have zero recruits where SMU has 3, Rice 2, and Louisiana Tech 1. This is our backyard, but we don't have one recruit.

"But that's too close, kids want to go away for college." Apparently not. The Houston Chron 100 shows 8 (EIGHT) to Houston, 6 to Rice, 3 to SMU, and 1 to Louisiana Tech.

I'm tired of the Dickey spin of finding kids under the radar. We're not getting commitments from quality recruits right now.

GOMG2013 · December 9, 2014

Even looking at the DMN 100, again we have zero recruits where SMU has 3, Rice 2, and Louisiana Tech 1. This is our backyard, but we don't have one recruit.

"But that's too close, kids want to go away for college." Apparently not. The Houston Chron 100 shows 8 (EIGHT) to Houston, 6 to Rice, 3 to SMU, and 1 to Louisiana Tech.

I'm tired of the Dickey spin of finding kids under the radar. We're not getting commitments from quality recruits right now.

I agree with this. Get that under the radar stuff outta here. And we should be landing a few dmn top 100, and a few from Houston. Noah Joseph was the one working the Houston area, and landed 3 top Houston recruits in 2013.

We should be getting recruits with more and better offers. I still dont expect UNT to out recruit schools in better conferences, but the offer lists should be more than just UNT and another g5 school and a few fcs. A few of these guys are ok, but the majority of the class should have several offers and hopefully 5 or more has P5 offers/serious p5 intrest.

BillySee58 · December 9, 2014

I agree with this. Get that under the radar stuff outta here. And we should be landing a few dmn top 100, and a few from Houston. Noah Joseph was the one working the Houston area, and landed 3 top Houston recruits in 2013.
We should be getting recruits with more and better offers. I still dont expect UNT to out recruit schools in better conferences, but the offer lists should be more than just UNT and another g5 school and a few fcs. A few of these guys are ok, but the majority of the class should have several offers and hopefully 5 or more has P5 offers/serious p5 intrest.

Agree. I've been doing some research, and offer lists are by far better predictors of how successful a kid is likely going to be in college than star ratings. We've signed some kids who were rated three stars, but we were their only offer or they had a service academy or FCS offer as well. Like you said, that's okay to round out your class with guys like that to where you aren't having to rely on them panning out. Having those guys make up the majority of your class is a different story, and a big part of why we struggled this year. We were relying on guys who didn't have any other offers or were former walkons to be stars on our team, and not just supporting cast type players.

Look at our recent commitment from Eli Howard. This is not a bad commitment at all. Especially because you're pairing him with Sam Miller. No recruits are sure things, but Miller is as close as it gets for us, as long as he works hard and he isn't a guy we worry about off the field. Miller has the best offer list of any defensive player we've pulled during the recruiting website era. If Howard pans out and becomes a multi-year starter, great. If not, and he just becomes, say, a rotational guy then it's not a big deal as long as Miller at least semi-pans out. Basically, Howard panning out is not going to make or break our future situation at defensive end.

Edited December 9, 2014 by BillySee58

greenminer · December 9, 2014

Cerebus sometimes says to the effect, "Mac is Dickey 2.0, but with better PR skills"

Would that be the case in recruiting, too?

Cerebus · December 9, 2014

Cerebus sometimes says to the effect, "Mac is Dickey 2.0, but with better PR skills"

Would that be the case in recruiting, too?

Good Lord no.

There is this misinformation out there that Dickey "under the radar" recruiting meant that he didn't recruit highly rated recruits. He did, he landed 14 DaMN Top 100s. He had a few recruits that were not highly rated that became stars (Chris Hurd going from no offers to SBC defensive player of the year) but most of the Dickey era stars (Buckles, Booger, Cobbs, Etc) were highly rated, highly recruited and on lists like the DaMN ST100.

Cobbs was on the OK top recruit list, Early was on the Florida Times Union list, Pruitt was on the Idaho top 10, etc.

With the exception of Goree Mac hasn't landed players on those lists.

Cerebus · December 9, 2014

Look at our recent commitment from Eli Howard. This is not a bad commitment at all.

He won't be a bad commit if at the very least he is still on campus and at least in the rotation. Mac's problem is he has had a lot of kids that either can't crack the rotation or are no longer with the program.

Lack of depth KILLED us last year and will probably kill us next year.

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 10, 2014

Ok, so you are looking at this current year and basing it off the rankings on the 247 website.
I look at offers to form an opinion on recruits. The amount of schools interested shows that more than a handful of schools see a prospect as D1 material. P5 schools have much more resources and staff for the recruiting process, so P5 offers, are a bonus. If a recruiter is listed, but no offer, I still consider it on the schools radar.
Another thing I consider are district awards, because the coaches in the district have played against these recruits a few times.
One more is local top 100 lists such as dmn top 100, gha top 100, east Texas top 100...because they cover the local high schools more closely than a website.
Im not sure how much work went into these 247 rankings, but im sure its a few guys on a website that looks at the highlights and offers.
I find it strange that Sam miller and Creighton Barr are not listed in these "expert" rankings. Their offer lists are better than most of the guys you have listed. Rice has two guys with very impressive offer lists. Other than that, I am not impressed by the other teams "top" recruits and would rather have Barr and miller than the 247 rated 3 stars with offers from 2 or 3 g5 schools.
With all that being said, I do think we need more recruits with more fbs offers and 2015 is not looking that strong overall, but once again, not too impressed by that 247 list.
If we can get d'erron Wilson, who just visited UNT...I will take our class over a lot of those schools.

So neither Sam or Creighton are listed on the 24/7 recruiting site for some reason, yet Creighton is not even listed on our Rivals site. What I can't figure out is why are we ranked 11 out of 12 in recruiting under Rivals for 2015 in our conference? I guess I am like so many on our board, i just can't understand why recruiting to our school seems to be so hard around here. I don't expect us to out recruit UT, Aggie, TCU, Baylor and TT, but I do expect us to be above 100 in National recruiting rankings and we never are.

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 10, 2014

How does this staff only have 7 commitments at this point? Do we have a small amount of scholarships to offer this year? Looking at just our conference, UAB (who dropped football) has 9. How in the world do we not already have at the very least, one QB committed for next year?

On Rivals, we are sitting at #110 in the country. Only two schools ahead of us, Florida and Michigan have 7 or less. Both of these schools are going through coaching changes in the off season. On rivals for 2014 AFTER going 9 wins we finished DEAD LAST at #123. I am in Deep's camp - there is something wrong.

Edited December 10, 2014 by GoMeanGreen1999

BillySee58 · December 10, 2014

To everyone: STOP FREAKING OUT ABOUT OUR RIVALS COMMITMENT LIST

There are plenty of things to be concerned about with our program and recruiting. The fact that rivals only lists 6 of our 13 commitments (the 7th commitment they list is Jordan Murray, no longer committed to us) is not one of those things.