Will RV's Terrible Scheduling Continue unabated?

UNT90 · December 5, 2014

Another reason to bring schools like Mizzou to UNT is to show the 100k alumni in this area that we do indeed play major college football and play it at home sometimes. How the typical uninvolved alum who is a sports fan would react when learning UNT has Mizzou as a home game:

"Mizzou is coming to Denton? Really? We never had home games like that when I went to UNT. Maybe we are finally getting more serious about football. Maybe I need to check into the team and see if we have a chance in hell of winning this game."

Of course, the game would need to be marketed correctly, which I don't trust this AD to do

The sad bottom line is this AD has told us he is too lazy to think creatively on how to solve this issue and the we will keep whoring ourselves to support our habit instead of cleaning up, getting a real job, and earning honest money (increase attendance and donations).

Once you get hooked on the whorin', it's hard to kick that habit.

Edited December 5, 2014 by UNT90

MeanGreenTexan · December 5, 2014

Another reason to bring schools like Mizzou to UNT is to show the 100k alumni in this area that we do indeed play major college football and play it at home sometimes. How the typical uninvolved alum who is a sports fan would react when learning UNT has Mizzou as a home game:
"Mizzou is coming to Denton? Really? We never had home games like that when I went to UNT. Maybe we are finally getting more serious about football. Maybe I need to check into the team and see if we have a chance in hell of winning this game."
Of course, the game would need to be marketed correctly, which I don't trust this AD to do
The sad bottom line is this AD has told us he is too lazy to think creatively on how to solve this issue and the we will keep whoring ourselves to support our habit instead of cleaning up, getting a real job, and earning honest money (increase attendance and donations).
Once you get hooked on the whorin', it's hard to kick that habit.

Sure it is, you just gotta know the right people. CJK5H.

UNTFan23 · December 5, 2014

To play the devil's advocate but if we could only get a 2-for-1 with Missouri would people here be happy with that? It is a possibility that could happen and why we don't get more games with schools like Missouri.

Ben Gooding · December 5, 2014

To play the devil's advocate but if we could only get a 2-for-1 with Missouri would people here be happy with that? It is a possibility that could happen and why we don't get more games with schools like Missouri.

I'm personally not a fan of 2 for 1's. It creates another scheduling problem and this athletic department is, well, incompetent. Go for upper G5's for 1/1's and invite lower tiered G5's to Apogee with no strings attached. BYU is a national brand that is always having to fill up their schedule. Why we haven't reached out to them is beyond me. NMSU would take happily take 300k to come to Apogee, as would about 25-30 G5 programs. RV has handcuffed is and it is frustrating. Where even more frustrating is the amount of money he gets paid to practically do the exact bare minimum (often times not even) and still keep his job with absolute no pressure whatsoever. It truly sounds like our entire university administration needs a complete overhaul (exception being Prez S). The shortcomings in every aspect, not just athletics, is apparent to anyone who has out this university under a microscope even for a brief time. Yet, here we are soaking it up and taking it on the chin. It's humiliating and demoralizing and I have only been apart of MGN since 2011. Something has to change and sometimes it takes external pressure to expedite that change.

Cerebus · December 5, 2014

To play the devil's advocate but if we could only get a 2-for-1 with Missouri would people here be happy with that? It is a possibility that could happen and why we don't get more games with schools like Missouri.

We since ASU got a 1-1 home and home with them, no.

GreenTexan13 · December 5, 2014

If y'all are talking Missouri, what about Arkansas? They are playing UTEP and La Tech the next two years. I know they play in Fayetteville and Little Rock. They are bottom of the pack SEC and a lot of fans are here in DFW that would go to Denton like Mizzou fans. I don't know their history on traveling to G5 stadiums though...

UNT90 · December 5, 2014

To play the devil's advocate but if we could only get a 2-for-1 with Missouri would people here be happy with that? It is a possibility that could happen and why we don't get more games with schools like Missouri.

No. Arkansas St. negotiated their way into a 1 and 1 with Mizzou. We shouldn't expect to be less successful than Arkansas St. at anything.

2 for 1s create schedule inflexibility (something this AD managed to do all on his own with only one 2 for 1 to blame - Kansas St.).

ULM has used this to get meaningful games at home during 5 home game seasons while we are busy buying FCS games to round out 5 home game schedules. ULM has to do this to get teams to come to Monroe, LA. We should not have to do this to get teams to come to a DFW venue in Apogee.

untjim1995 · December 5, 2014

Cerebus and TTG--both of you posted the absolute best answers I've read on this website in a long time about the sitaution we find ourselves in. I haven't gone to a basketball game at the Pit since 2012--the product is terrible for many reasons. It just isn't worth the time and effort to get to Denton to watch us squeak by Northwood or get drilled by 30+ points to SFA. For those that stick with it, kudos to you for being a Super Fan!! You and your other 1500 buddies are certainly getting what you deserve--great closeness to the AD and the coaches, lots of elbow room, small lines to the restroom and concessions, and witnessing the new "hockey-line" coaching of basketball that we have employed for a while now.

I do feel like the fans expectations on this board have increased for what we believe we should be getting from our program, but the monied alums are obviously not at the same point. Their expectations are clearly to be able to enjoy their awesome relationship with RV and the other athletic department personnel, as if they are just like the big wigs in Austin, College Station, or Lubbock who have courtside seats and 50-yard line seats. Its almost amazing to me that this has been one of the best things RV has done--to buddy up to the few monied alums who like athletics at UNT. You'd think that kind of relationship building would've translated into bigger numbers of donating alumni and fans, since RV must be such an awesome guy to rub elbows with--and he did the unimaginable and leap-frogged Craig Helwig as the best AD we've had since we moved up to FBS by single-handedly recognizing that tailgating should be instituted here!! What a genius!! He's got to be here for life with attributes like this!!

In reality, if RV ever dies or retires (he will never get fired), we will just hire someone from within the AD or go hire someone who has no clue how to run a G5 AD at an apathetic campus. It certainly won't be anyone who has run a successful AD somewhere and or someone who would ever ask the BOR if they even care about winning here? Its just what we do toward athletics. Its not the window to the university that we, as fans on this website, want it to be. It never has been, never will be.

What is sad to me is that we completely lost almost all of the graduates from about 1980 thru 2000 for having any interest in UNT Sports. Then the SBC run under Dickey and the high quality teams JJ started running out in the years between 2001 and 2011 were really something that actually built up a core fanbase for both sports. Even after Dickey got fired, people knew Dodge's name and offense and were interested to see if he could make the transition, so we saw attendance perk up. Obvioulsy, it became apparent to us in Year 3 that he couldn't do it, but the OOC scheduling, very ironically, is what helped here, since we brought in Tulsa, Ohio, Army, Rice, and K-State for games at decrepit Fouts. But now, with Benford destroying the momentum JJ had built up, with the losing and boring offense and lack of worthy opponents to fans in football that has shown back up, and the fact that we extended RV with the "Track record of success" he has given us in the big revenue sports, they all combine to show a lot of us that we are getting real close to losing the newer alums who actually got excited about athletics in the ought's and have started funding the program thru season tickets and MGC contrributions. When TTG goes from posting about every UNT hoops game he could feasibly get to in all parts of the country just three years ago to now being so beaten by the reality of how the administration treats sports as a cost venture, not a revenue venture, it makes him rarely even attempt to go to a UNT game at home. You know its a problem that is much bigger than the simpleton argument of "not being a good fan like me" because you go to every game you can and just enjoy the camaraderie of hanging out at a tailgate more than actually beating an opponent that nobody in this area of the state gives a rat's ass about. But instead of fixing any of this, our BOR thinks having 1600 people at a 10,000 seat arena is just fine, that having 2000 actual people at a brand new stadium is just fine. And even worse, the monied alums think its ok, too, so they don't have to compete with others for the main attention that they get from RV or the other AD employees. It really isn't that surprising that this next decade could be the last stand for many of us to stay connected or involved with the university in any form or fashion.

rcade · December 5, 2014

In reality, if RV ever dies or retires (he will never get fired), we will just hire someone from within the AD or go hire someone who has no clue how to run a G5 AD at an apathetic campus.

No way. When RV leaves in 2024 after rejecting A&M's offer to come to Apogee so we can keep our rivalry game with Incarnate Word, we're hiring RV's son as AD.

Your outlook is so gloomy UNT90 is envious.

UNT90 · December 5, 2014

No way. When RV leaves in 2024 after rejecting A&M's offer to come to Apogee so we can keep our rivalry game with Incarnate Word, we're hiring RV's son as AD.

Your outlook is so gloomy UNT90 is envious.

Envious isn't the right word. Understanding would be better.

Find one FBS where the AD has underperformed as badly as this AD, where the main revenue sport has had losing seasons 9 of the past 10 years through 2 coaching hires, and that AD has kept his job for 14 years.

Find one. Can you?

FirefightnRick · December 5, 2014

Another round of Plus One.

On this date 3 years ago, we were still in the Sun Belt. We were just about to finish our first season in Apogee, our new head coach surprising me by leading what I thought was a 3 win team to a 5-7 season.

I was in Los Angeles, having sexy fun adventures with CMJ and Shuke-D, because I'd taken a week off work and dragged my wife out there for a meaningless MTE tournament at Loyola Marymount. We were coming off of our 5th straight 20 win season, we had an NBA talent joining us in a matter of weeks, and we were on our way to coming up one minute short of what would have been our 3rd NCAA appearance in 6 years. I already had a reservation for a 5 bedroom, 3 story megahouse on the lake in Hot Springs, eventually filled up with a dozen people who were excited about a week in Arkansas in March, all because of Mean Green athletics.

One of the big topics of conversation at that conference tournament was Baseball, which most of us had, for one reason or another, been led to believe was just around the corner. If they'd have taken deposits, I'd have bought season tickets then and there. Three years later, I feel like we're further away from a baseball program. Not that I care, because it seems like just one more way to dilute whatever money we're going to spend, and do a half-assed job at yet ANOTHER sport where success is more coincidence than a result of a plan or (more importantly) driven by expectation.

Three years later, what was once a mid-major of sustained success and almost unprecedented consistency that seemed poised for a breakthrough to the next level of success and prominence is in the toilet, being dragged down in terms of success and ethics by a failure and disgrace that a real basketball program would have fired a year ago, if not two. But we're sticking with him, and we'll basically be starting from scratch again whenever the next guy makes his way in for the rebuilding project.

Three years later, our football coach had his first season that finished below my expectations... But at a time when he should be exceeding them, with his own players in his own system. Instead, we were bad, and in a way that I didn't really want to watch. For crying out loud... I went to Kansas, Houston, Louisiana to watch TODD DODGE, but I only made it up to Apogee two times this year. I missed one game to take a trip with my wife (SMU! The last two times we played SMU, I bought and distributed over 50 tickets to bring people out!), I missed one game for a wedding (Southern Miss), and I skipped one game because another die hard UNT fan and I decided we'd rather take advantage of free tickets to watch TCU play Kansas State instead of going to Apogee to watch McNultyball against FAU. And I didn't bother to go out to FIU because of weather and the absence of some people I'd have wanted to 'enjoy' the game with.

I #Hit2, #Skipped4, #TailgatedZERO, and I don't feel like I missed anything. And I don't know if I'm going to renew my season tickets for next year, because even though I like Mac, I don't know that I'm going to see anything worth watching next season if we don't get a quarterback in here. I drove hours to see TODD DODGE, and I don't want to drive 30 minutes to see an actual good coach that's had some success here.

And I went all over the country to watch that basketball team... 5 guys piled in an Altima to drive to Monroe and back in 2011 (MONROE!), MeanGreenMatt, NT03 and I had driven down and back to Houston the year before to go see Texas Southern for crying out loud... Not exaggerating at all, I went to 66 games in person in three seasons. Houston, San Marcos, Louisiana, Los Angeles, Alabama, Oklahoma... Basically, a deadhead following the team bus all around the country. And LOVED it.

This year, I haven't even listened to a damn game. And I haven't missed it.

Three years ago, we were in a dead end conference, and I felt like we were on a good path on all fronts. Now, what used to be obsessions, I've completely disengaged with.

The obvious response is: "Fine, complainer... Shut up and go away. We don't need fans like you." And, frankly, I feel like I'm on the cusp of actually GOING AWAY. If Harry hadn't made me a moderator here, I think I probably would have checked out entirely by now.

I feel like we're further away, across the board, than we were 3 years ago. And you can say the same thing about 10 years ago with respect to football. And, even though I'm not one of the "Fire RV!" guys... We're 16 years in, almost every hire he's made has failed, most of them he can't or won't acknowledge or amend until they've done so much damage that we end up trapped in a perpetual cycle of rebuilding.

I don't think I have unreasonable expectations, or an outrageous threshold of what constitutes "success". Remember, I basically worship Johnny Jones, and I still like and appreciate Darrell Dickey. And there are a lot of people around here who don't really have much respect for either, or any real fondness/appreciation for whatever level of success it was that they were able to reach and maintain.

But, frankly... This is not fun. And I have almost no confidence, based on how we handle or ignore our failures, that we're ever going to get appreciably better. The more time goes by, the less I want to devote my free time and personal enthusiasm to it.

A big program has enough fans and casual attention to deal with losing people who are like me (don't believe in college sports as charity, frustrated/disillusioned, etc.). I don't know that North Texas does. And if I haven't quite reached the point where I'm ready to spend ALL of my time, money, energy, and enthusiasm on non-UNT interests... I'm very close.

A couple of responses to this.

First, I wanted to be a smart ass and try and humor you by saying something along the lines of.."Just wait another 15-20 years of this and check back with us and lets see how your fanatacism for North Texas really is?". Or,....."Just wait another 15-20 years when some young, intelligent know-it-all comes on here and diminishes everything Johnny Jones ever accomplished at North Texas and see how your blood pressure is doing?"...

But I doubt any of that will bring a smile to your sweet, sweet Greek face we've all grown to know and love around here. :thumbsu:

But seriously, TTG's post above should be read at the next President's Council meeting. And if I can get it forwarded to someone who will be in the room I'll try and have just that done, because it truly tells us where we are. When a fully ALL-IN and emotionally invested supporter, donor, program-following alumn like TTG has gotten to this point in his young life then it's a critical, telling sign that your athletic program, and more importantly the lifeblood of your university's image, is on life support. :roadrage:

Rick

Edited December 5, 2014 by FirefightnRick

UNTFan23 · December 5, 2014

We since ASU got a 1-1 home and home with them, no.

Didn't Missouri do all it could to get the terms to the agreement changed or even canceled?

untjim1995 · December 5, 2014

A couple of responses to this.

First, I wanted to be a smart ass and try and humor you by saying something along the lines of.."Just wait another 15-20 years of this and check back with us and lets see how your fanatacism for North Texas really is?". Or,....."Just wait another 15-20 years when some young, intelligent know-it-all comes on here and diminishes everything Johnny Jones ever accomplished at North Texas and see how your blood pressure is doing?"...

But I doubt any of that will bring a smile to your sweet, sweet Greek face we've all grown to know and love around here.

But seriously, TTG's post above should be read at the next President's Council meeting. And if I can get it forwarded to someone who will be in the room I'll try and have just that done, because it truly tells us where we are. When a fully ALL-IN and emotionally invested supporter, donor, program-following alumn like TTG has gotten to this point in his young life then it's a critical, telling sign that your athletic program, and more importantly the lifeblood of your university's image, is on life support.

Rick

I think you are dead-on about this, but the only thing that I don't believe is that anyone on that President's Council or the BOR thinks is that this is the lifeblood to the university's image. If TTG was a apassionate follower of the One O'Clock Lab Band or the Green Brigade or something in the Fine Arts Department, then I believe an email like this from a donor and supporter would cause heads to roll. In this case, I think his email, while awesomely on target to us on gmg.com, would just get a huge "Meh" from those in charge.

Unless these people can ever come around to believeing that winning in revenue sports is the best way to advertise, promote, and fundraise for the university, it will continue to be a medium to low priority here. There's just too many decades of proof to believe anything differently, in my opinion.

Cerebus · December 5, 2014

Didn't Missouri do all it could to get the terms to the agreement changed or even canceled?

No the group than runs Arrowhead stadium tried to buy the game from ASU for several million dollars. The ASU AD used this leverage to get the Jonesboro city council to spend hotel tax money to keep the game in Jonesboro. He also used it to make Little Rock understand that in the future LR should pay ASU to host games there, not the other way around.

Innovative leadership.

UNT90 · December 5, 2014

No the group than runs Arrowhead stadium tried to buy the game from ASU for several million dollars. The ASU AD used this leverage to get the Jonesboro city council to spend hotel tax money to keep the game in Jonesboro. He also used it to make Little Rock understand that in the future LR should pay ASU to host games there, not the other way around.

Innovative leadership.

Does anyone on this board really believe RV could pull off anything like this?

Ever?

MeanGreenHoops · December 5, 2014

If TTG was a apassionate follower of the One O'Clock Lab Band or the Green Brigade or something in the Fine Arts Department, then I believe an email like this from a donor and supporter would cause heads to roll. In this case, I think his email, while awesomely on target to us on gmg.com, would just get a huge "Meh" from those in charge.

You are so way off with this assertion. In fact it would be more likely to be ignored in those areas.

KingDL1 · December 6, 2014

Does anyone on this board really believe RV could pull off anything like this?
Ever?

No, probably not a chance in hell. We need someone fired up and ready to take on the world not a big Mac.

GoMeanGreen1999 · December 6, 2014

If y'all are talking Missouri, what about Arkansas? They are playing UTEP and La Tech the next two years. I know they play in Fayetteville and Little Rock. They are bottom of the pack SEC and a lot of fans are here in DFW that would go to Denton like Mizzou fans. I don't know their history on traveling to G5 stadiums though...

You are not going to get Arkansas here for Football. If you can't get them here for basketball, you are for sure not going to in football. The last time they came to the DFW area for a regular season game I believe was SMU and it had to be in the Cotton Bowl.

The marketing department for North Texas is also dropping the ball. There is virtually nothing around Denton advertising athletics. It's kind of sad. Hopeful to see it pick up come summer time.

This is one of the things that surprises me the most....and makes so little sense. The year we tried to meet our attendance numbers to make the D1 jump up, AD office had things going all over town. Actually had businesses downtown buying packages and flags/poles to hang out on their stores on game days. You saw UNT everywhere. Since then there has been virtually NOTHING.

shaft · December 7, 2014

There's nothing wrong with our schedule.

Y'all complain too much.

Don't want to play a payday game, donate a million bucks a year. Anything less STFU.

I don't like FBS vs fcs games, period. But if everyone else is going pad their schedule.

Our OOC schedule is in the business of peeping us for conference play and paying the bills.

Ben Gooding · December 7, 2014

There's nothing wrong with our schedule.
Y'all complain too much.
Don't want to play a payday game, donate a million bucks a year. Anything less STFU.
I don't like FBS vs fcs games, period. But if everyone else is going pad their schedule.
Our OOC schedule is in the business of peeping us for conference play and paying the bills.

You're clueless, RV. Get your athletic department in order.

On a serious note, scheduling sucks. Get with the program.

UNT90 · December 7, 2014

There's nothing wrong with our schedule.
Y'all complain too much.
Don't want to play a payday game, donate a million bucks a year. Anything less STFU.
I don't like FBS vs fcs games, period. But if everyone else is going pad their schedule.
Our OOC schedule is in the business of peeping us for conference play and paying the bills.

This is why this place will never change.

Right here.