What Do You Expect From This Program

MeanMag · December 11, 2014

Not so sure I am hung up about the fees as I used to be. The heavy fee schools seems to be the ones predicted to follow in UAB's football demise footsteps...
Would love to have more revenue but not if it means we might see a "Dear Mean Green Family" letter anytime soon!

I am not concerned about the fees because if the athletic dept is smart they will keep refinancing to make sure they always owe a balance on a loan building something for athletics. If I remember correctly, as long as there is a loan, the fees can stay in place.

FirefightnRick · December 11, 2014

Wait - not defending it - but wasn't the whole point of the RT to take a swipe at the prez and spotlight his quote rather than slap him on the back for it?

I sincerely hope not?

Rick

Quoner · December 11, 2014

I sincerely hope not?
Rick

What do you think he was doing?

And frankly, I hate these modern day internets. I missed the old days when he could have just sent someone an anonymous letter with a ton of misspelled words.

UNT90 · December 11, 2014

So you really think that there is no "internal" frustration about a 4-8 football season? I am asking you specifically Ben Gooding. You really really think that anyone on the second floor of the athletic center is content with 4-8? What exactly to you want them to say?

#itmighbegettingseriousmaybe

#nobodyintheathleticdepartmentcares

#itsallajoke

I don't care if they are frustrated. I care that they do their job and fix the problem, which they haven't been able to do the last 10 years.

I don't care if RV cries in public because we are losing. I expect him to fix the damn problem.

These type of posts from you scare the hell out of me for the future of this program.

flyonthewall · December 11, 2014

Mr. Gooding made the statement that there is only external frustration. I am only saying that I believe that no one inside outside or in the middle is content with a 4-8 football season.

UNT90 · December 11, 2014

Mr. Gooding made the statement that there is only external frustration. I am only saying that I believe that no one inside outside or in the middle is content with a 4-8 football season.

And there is a difference than being frustrated and actually doing something about it, or having the ability to do so.

I don't believe this AD has that ability.

Got5onIt · December 13, 2014

I had to go look this up and it ain't pretty. Anyone with a gun in their hand, may want to put it away:

NT has had 4 winning seasons in the last 20 years, only 1 winning season the last decade.

The 4 winning seasons, all under RV's watch. I'm not advocating one way or another, just take that for what it's worth.

NT has zero football respect because they've pretty much earned zero football respect. No wonder our own alum, Texas high school coaches, & high school players laugh at our program. I'm amazed we haven't gone the way of UAB.....

UNT90 · December 13, 2014

I had to go look this up and it ain't pretty. Anyone with a gun in their hand, may want to put it away:
NT has had 4 winning seasons in the last 20 years, only 1 winning season the last decade.
The 4 winning seasons, all under RV's watch. I'm not advocating one way or another, just take that for what it's worth.
NT has zero football respect because they've pretty much earned zero football respect. No wonder our own alum, Texas high school coaches, & high school players laugh at our program. I'm amazed we haven't gone the way of UAB.....

But, hey, we played whore games all those years to pay the bills, so no problem losing our ass off.

At least that is the BOR's point of view.

meangreanmick · December 13, 2014

But, hey, we played whore games all those years to pay the bills, so no problem losing our ass off.
At least that is the BOR's point of view.

You want to play more home games, and more high profile games. You also want to not play games on the road for big pay days. All that costs money - where do you propose that will come from?

ULM decided to bring more high profile teams to their place, to pay for that they only play 5 home games and play several big payday road games every year.

K State came to Fouts, we have had SMU, Indiana, Houston, Rice at the new stadium mad didn't come close to sell outs, so we can't say that just bringing in certain teams will result in making up some revenue/cost. So what's your solution.

VideoEagle · December 13, 2014

I would also add that San Diego State played 23 money games between 2000 and 2010 according to an article I listed in another thread. They lost all of them - over two per year for a decade. And they were still invited to the old Big East when it was still an AQ conference. Simply playing money games is not the end of the world.

Likewise, most of the Big XII, the SEC, the ACC, the AAC and the MWC teams play a home game against an FCS team each year. The Big 10 is moving away from FCS games, but they still have a number of them on the schedules. They all "buy a win." Scheduling to win is a core part of Bill Snyder's football philosophy and he was able to revive a long losing KSU team by doing exactly what a number of the fans here seem to hate.

UNT90 · December 13, 2014

You want to play more home games, and more high profile games. You also want to not play games on the road for big pay days. All that costs money - where do you propose that will come from?
ULM decided to bring more high profile teams to their place, to pay for that they only play 5 home games and play several big payday road games every year.
K State came to Fouts, we have had SMU, Indiana, Houston, Rice at the new stadium mad didn't come close to sell outs, so we can't say that just bringing in certain teams will result in making up some revenue/cost. So what's your solution.

I don't get paid to find solutions. That is the ADs job. He has been here 14 years and he has failed miserably to find solutions in a lot of areas (winning being the most important), including scheduling, especially since we have been in Apogee.

Every other FBS has a scheduling plan. Can you tell me what UNT's plan is?

NT03 · December 13, 2014

I would also add that San Diego State played 23 money games between 2000 and 2010 according to an article I listed in another thread. They lost all of them - over two per year for a decade. And they were still invited to the old Big East when it was still an AQ conference. Simply playing money games is not the end of the world.

Not sure what article you are talking about , but

Money games are where you whore yourself out for $$ & don't get any kind of return game. Not trying to be a smartass here, but Maybe you can show me the link because I must be missing something here if SDSU really did play 23 "money" games between 2000 -2010. The article could have certainly stated that , but I just don't get that

During that span SDSU had home & home deals and hosted the likes of Arizona St (2000) Illinois (2000) Arizona (2001) Arizona St (2002) UCLA (2005)

Certainly not advocating for us to be able to land those caliber teams on a consistent basis either. San Diego is much more attractive for travel than Denton

Edited December 13, 2014 by NT03

VideoEagle · December 13, 2014

Not sure what article you are talking about , but
Money games are where you whore yourself out for $$ & don't get any kind of return game. Maybe you can show me the link because I must be missing something here if SDSU really did play 23 " money " games between 2000 -2010
During that span SDSU had home & home deals and hosted the likes of Arizona St (2000) Illinois (2000) Arizona (2001) Arizona St (2002) UCLA (2005)

Here's the link to the article. As I wrote in the ULM thread, it's an older article from 2010.

Playing away games for guaranteed payouts has become a way of life for a lot of schools. This football season saw San Jose State earn $1.825 million by playing back-to-back Saturdays at Alabama and Wisconsin, games SJSU lost by a combined score of 75-17. But don't confuse the Spartans with the Aztecs of San Diego State, who received $800,000 to play at Missouri this season, its 23rd guaranteed payday since 2000. The Aztecs' record in those games: 0-23. SDSU's total take: $6.1 million.

Also, and the "next season" would be 2011.

Next season, San Diego State travels to Michigan for $1,016,800, which is nearly what it can expect to make in an entire season of home ticket sales.

Here's another article from last Jan about guaranteed games and the amounts being paid out. It appears the prices are rising dramatically each year so a game in 2016 is worth over $100k more than a game in 2015. Only 4 of 33 games last year featured a return game to a non-P5 school including our Indiana game. Scheduling is not as easy as pick up the phone and get someone.

"Sometimes you don'

VideoEagle · December 13, 2014

Let me try this again as when I try to post I now get a message my post is "too short."

VideoEagle · December 13, 2014

From the Big 10 article, "Sometimes you don't have much choice, Wisconsin athlietic director Baryy Alvarez said. "There are only so many teams available, and it's very hard to find someone that's willing to come on an open date that matches yours. Many times, your back is to the wall and your selection is very small when you are scheduling these games."

Obviously, we don't have the resources Barry has at Wisconsin.

I am not writing that we don't need to upgrade our schedule. We most certainly do. But some here write "just fix it," as if because RV makes more money in his job than they do in their's that somehow means he should be able to do anything. "Fix it" ignores the reality of Division 1 football in 2015.

Edited December 13, 2014 by VideoEagle

Ben Gooding · December 14, 2014

From the Big 10 article, "Sometimes you don't have much choice, Wisconsin athlietic director Baryy Alvarez said. "There are only so many teams available, and it's very hard to find someone that's willing to come on an open date that matches yours. Many times, your back is to the wall and your selection is very small when you are scheduling these games."

Obviously, we don't have the resources Barry has at Wisconsin.

I am not writing that we don't need to upgrade our schedule. We most certainly do. But some here write "just fix it," as if because RV makes more money in his job than they do in their's that somehow means he should be able to do anything. "Fix it" ignores the reality of Division 1 football in 2015.

It's a part of his job. That's why people tell him to "fix it." If he doesn't fix it or if he can't fix it then we need to get someone in here that knows how to fix it. He gets paid a couple hundred racks a year to fix athletic problems. He needs to do his job or get the hell out of the way. I don't even care about playing FCS schools. IMO we need them. What I do care about is only having 5 home games and coming out the gate at 0-2 because of 2 badly scheduled body bag games in one season. I really don't care about body bag games, but I don't think it is a necessity to play one every. single. year. If it is, fold up shop and let's turn Apogee into a sweet baseball stadium and focus the money on baseball and basketball. Starting seasons 0-2 is not doing anyone favors, including us. I am more willing to accept the closure of this program than garbage administrating/recruiting/coaching.

UNT90 · December 14, 2014

From the Big 10 article, "Sometimes you don't have much choice, Wisconsin athlietic director Baryy Alvarez said. "There are only so many teams available, and it's very hard to find someone that's willing to come on an open date that matches yours. Many times, your back is to the wall and your selection is very small when you are scheduling these games."

Obviously, we don't have the resources Barry has at Wisconsin.

I am not writing that we don't need to upgrade our schedule. We most certainly do. But some here write "just fix it," as if because RV makes more money in his job than they do in their's that somehow means he should be able to do anything. "Fix it" ignores the reality of Division 1 football in 2015.

And you choose to ignore the reality of our recent scheduling situation. You clearly haven't looked at the problem closely, so lets examine the last 4 years and the terrible scheduling that led to us having to buy a game 4 straight years while also playing 2 five home game season just to regain a modicum of scheduling flexibility.

Do you realize how bad you have to be at scheduling to get yourself in a predicament to where you not only have to buy a home game in 4 straight years, but also have to play 2 five home game seasons in those same four years?

Unbelievably bad.

If we hadn't bought a home game in every single year the last four completed scheduling years, we would have had 2 five home game schedules and 2 four home game schedules.

Buying those games were our ONLY option.

You either have to be lazy or unable to do basic math. I'm betting on lazy. I'm betting on taking the easy way out. Because that is what we do.

Yes, scheduling is hard and takes time, attention, and effort. I have severe concerns that this AD is horrible at managing his time correctly, and on the correct things.

Humans do things. They don't just happen on their own. When humans don't prioritize time correctly, important things get ignored. I have very little doubt this is a huge problem with this AD.

Edited December 14, 2014 by UNT90

FirefightnRick · December 14, 2014

I would also add that San Diego State played 23 money games between 2000 and 2010 according to an article I listed in another thread. They lost all of them - over two per year for a decade. And they were still invited to the old Big East when it was still an AQ conference. Simply playing money games is not the end of the world.

Likewise, most of the Big XII, the SEC, the ACC, the AAC and the MWC teams play a home game against an FCS team each year. The Big 10 is moving away from FCS games, but they still have a number of them on the schedules. They all "buy a win." Scheduling to win is a core part of Bill Snyder's football philosophy and he was able to revive a long losing KSU team by doing exactly what a number of the fans here seem to hate.

But don't confuse the Spartans with the Aztecs of San Diego State, who received $800,000 to play at Missouri this season, its 23rd guaranteed payday since 2000. The Aztecs' record in those games: 0-23.

.

Video, the reporter in that article you posted either doesn't know what he's talking about or did poor research.

From 2000' to 2010' I only count 8 guaranteed money games, no where close to 23. The guy probably doesn't know what a body bag money game is and just looked down the list and counted how many times SDSU played a big boy and listed that as a guaranteed money game. He's wrong.

For instance, look at 2006' where they played Wisconsin. He probably listed that as a money game not realizing it was a return game from when SDSU hosted the Badgers in 1998.

Rick

Edited December 14, 2014 by FirefightnRick

VideoEagle · December 14, 2014

.
.
Video, the reporter in that article you posted either doesn't know what he's talking about or did poor research.
From 2000' to 2010' I only count 8 guaranteed money games, no where close to 23. The guy probably doesn't know what a body bag money game is and just looked down the list and counted how many times SDSU played a big boy and listed that as a guaranteed money game. He's wrong.
For instance, look at 2006' where they played Wisconsin. He probably listed that as a money game not realizing it was a return game from when SDSU hosted the Badgers in 1998.
Rick

I saw in one of the multiple articles comments from the SDSU AD commenting on the need for guaranteed games to pay the bills. And it appears SDSU was the reporters source for the information. Those facts plus the entire article being on the growth of programs using guaranteed payment, no return games make me think the article is correct.

FirefightnRick · December 14, 2014

I saw in one of the multiple articles comments from the SDSU AD commenting on the need for guaranteed games to pay the bills. And it appears SDSU was the reporters source for the information. Those facts plus the entire article being on the growth of programs using guaranteed payment, no return games make me think the article is correct.

.

Nope. In fact, by looking through their entire schedule from '98 thru '13', I only see 7 games in which they played a guaranteed money game WITHOUT a return game in San Diego.

Those are:

Ohio St

USC

Kansas

Colorado

Michigan

Notre Dame

Missouri

Since 1998 they have hosted:

Wisconsin

Illinois

Oregon St

Cincinnati

Washington State.......TWICE

UCLA..........................TWICE

Arizona State..............TWICE

Arizona........................TWICE

Rick

Edited December 14, 2014 by FirefightnRick

UNT90 · December 14, 2014

.
.
Nope. In fact, by looking through their entire schedule from '98 thru '13', I only see 7 games in which they played a guaranteed money game WITHOUT a return game in San Diego.
Those are:
Ohio St
USC
Kansas
Colorado
Michigan
Notre Dame
Missouri
Since 1998 they have hosted:
Wisconsin
Illinois
Oregon St
Cincinnati
Washington State.......TWICE
UCLA..........................TWICE
Arizona State..............TWICE
Arizona........................TWICE
Rick

I mean, we can't be expected to compete with football powers like San Diego St.

Come on, man! Who do you think we are? Arkansas St.?!?!

Looks like that dude put as much effort into correctly researching that article as RV does into scheduling football games at Apogee Stadium.

Edited December 14, 2014 by UNT90

VideoEagle · December 14, 2014

.
.
Nope. In fact, by looking through their entire schedule from '98 thru '13', I only see 7 games in which they played a guaranteed money game WITHOUT a return game in San Diego.
Those are:
Rick

Well, the original article included ""It really helps the bottom line, as we have the challenge of the cost of scholarships going up and the cost of education going up significantly in the state," SDSU athletic director Jim Sterk told The San Diego Union-Tribune." That is an AD used to playing guaranteed games and who thinks they are needed for his university.

Then there is this article on SDSU's guarantee game against Michigan in 2011 where Sterk commented ""It was an opportunity we couldn't turn down," Sterk told the paper. "It's a good payday for us, and it's a good opponent for our team and fans. It's a win-win."" Obviously, Sterk is used to guaranteed games for a good payday and to balance the athletic budget.

The reporter in the original article is by Paul Steinbach. He's been writing for Athletic Business magazine since 1999. It's a well known magazine - not some internet only publication - that does things like fact-check the articles submitted by it's writers before publication. Now fact-checkers sometimes miss things, but not often and not things a single phone call can confirm.

Now, of course Steinbach could be wrong but since the SDSU AD is quoted supporting the facts in the article plus there are other articles from sources like ESPN that support the fact SDSU plays a number of guaranteed football games makes me tend to believe him.

UNT90 · December 14, 2014

The AD could be talking about the 7 or 8 money games they have played in the last 14 years, no? I'm sure he viewed that revenue as important to the program.

And then the writer just assumed that San Diego St. We're paid for EVERY major team they played on the road, like FFR says. That is the most likely scenario, since it is painfully obvious that SDSU didn't play 23 money games as the article stated.

See how easy it is to be lazy? It's demonstrated in the article you posted, and it has occurred in the UNT AD for a long long time.

And if FFR is right, SDSU has played 7 money games in 16 years while UNT has played 7 money games in the last 6 completed schedule years. Someone is doing something MUCH better than someone else.

Edited December 14, 2014 by UNT90

Cerebus · December 14, 2014

VE, the schedule is clear. The AD and/or the author must be trying to spin some numbers to support a narrative. The widely accepted definition of a guarantee/paycheck/money/bodybag game is not what they are using. A game where you get a return game, and you pay each other a minimal amount when you are the one that hosts is not that.

FFR has looked it up and the vast majority of those games are one and ones. Our series with Indiana was one of these. Each team hosted the other, paid a small check when the other visited to cover their trip expenses.

A guarantee/paycheck/money/bodybag is one in which one school pays another and never intends to return the trip. Us paying Idaho or Georgia paying us falls into that.

greenit · December 14, 2014

Once again, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. SDSU has played 13 money games in the last 15 years from my count (went back to 2000). There was a time when SDSU could get some home and homes with decent names. Now there are lucky to get Oregon State and Wash St from the P5 conferences. By the way, they played 12 FCS teams during that same period.

2014 - @North Carolina

2013 - @Ohio State

2012 - @Washington

2011 - @Michigan

2010 - @Missouri

2009 - @UCLA

2008 - @Notre Dame

2007 - none

2006 - @Wisconsin

2005 - @Ohio St

2004 - @Michigan

2003 - @Ohio State