We can't stand still

Harry · November 30, 2014

The more I think about our situation, it appears that we are at a major crossroad; a point in time where we really need our Leadership to get engaged and help map out and support our future competing in FBS football and C-USA.

I love Mac -- he's a good coach and has done some nice things. His job is safe. But this type of season was not what he or anyone else around here expected in year 4 of the regime. He cannot rebuild this alone. He needs to make changes and receive full support from the highest levels at UNT.

I do not buy we had a down year excuse. Yes we graduated some good players but there is no reason that this program with this schedule could not have won 6 games this season. As indicated here, the schedule will only get tougher. To lose two years in a row to a program with just 5 years competing in football is just unacceptable. If that alone does not show you that there is something wrong with our system what else would?

I know Mac took responsibility for the season and said he would be working hard to fix things. He can't do this alone. We need every single one of our leaders, be it Smatresk, RV, Lee Jackson, the Board of Regents and so on to be a part of this solution. I do not want to hear "It's hard at North Texas..." ever again. We have to instill some accountability or we will never progress from mediocrity.

The easy thing to do would be to replace Skladany and move on down the road. I think our problems go beyond just a coach. I am not a clean house and hope sort of person. I want to know what is happening with the system, the plan... if we are not getting the recruits we need then why is that? Where are we spending our time, who is having success/failure and how can we implement that success along all positions? How can we improve our QB evaluations? Dline etc..

I have stated here that I believe our recruiting strategy and effort needs to be revamped. We are sitting in a hotbed of talent and yet we see other schools with less resources doing a better job landing prospects and winning football games. We have still yet to identify a quality QB prospect that can win football games in year 4 of the Mac regime. Defensive line, which is one of the main things we loved about the Mac hire -- has been a disappointment.

Our fans want to see reason for hope in the future, The changes we make now will have a big impact on the future. As a season ticket holder and fan I implore the leadership to review our structure and make the changes that give us the best opportunity to turn this ship around. GMG

akriesman · November 30, 2014

"I do not want to hear "It's hard at North Texas..." ever again."

Totally agree Harry, especially THIS !!!

Rudy · November 30, 2014

This. This guy gets it.

Christopher Walker · November 30, 2014

"I do not want to hear "It's hard at North Texas..." ever again."

Totally agree Harry, especially THIS !!!

I will never in my life step up into significant or reliable athletic donation or contribution beyond season tickets if this continues to be the company line.

#BillClarkforOC

cogido · November 30, 2014

Harry's above post is absolutely on target. I support his comments and analysis 100%. I would love it if we dedicated fans could collaborate and get a hard copy of Harry's letter/post to the leadership that matters. I want my University to succeed !

DeepGreen · November 30, 2014

Right on target Harry.

For the record, 2015 will be the last year I have the option to buy my two Club Seat tickets. I will drop the Club seats and just purchase the tickets I need at the gate next season. I have seen enough of how this athletic department has been run for the past 15 years to know what is or what is not going on at Bonnie Brae. Blame it on RV, past BOR's, Presidents, or Chancellor Jackson. Take you pick, or all of the above. The fact that we lost to an infant program only a few years old TWO YEARS IN A ROW is enough for me.

FirefightnRick · November 30, 2014

If it's just the losses that makes people finally take notice and start to demand better around here then they aren't paying very good attention.

Rick

Edited November 30, 2014 by FirefightnRick

DeepGreen · November 30, 2014

If it's just the losses that makes people finally take notice and start to demand better around here then they aren't paying very good attention.
Rick

When you see what has happened in football, basketball(men's and women's), the losses mount up and it leads to coaching hires that are slightly questionable. And how long has this been going on?

NM Green · November 30, 2014

A huge flag and yet another warning sign is our weak scheduling and inability or effort to get solid programs at apogee. Again Smastrek has seen Minnesota Wisconsin Arizona all roll into Vegas and Purdue usc Washington state and Washington roll into aloha stadium. The best we can get is Houston Indiana and incarnate word.

Smastrek can triple the amount of support he is getting by making some strategically inspiring moves.

GMG

NT80 · December 1, 2014

But this type of season was not what he or anyone else around here expected in year 4 of the regime.

Well....several of us could see this coming after last year. All you had to do was look at the roster and see backup players were not being groomed for this year in blowout games; very easy to predict a major downturn.

We thought it foolish to give a contract extension before seeing if real adjustments and talent evaluations could be made by this staff and they weren't. Look at the QB evaluation mess as an example.

No fan wants losing programs. Knowing what caused the losing and what the coaching staff and support structure can do to fix it determines staying the course or changing course. Some of us see a cliff ahead, some don't.

Edited December 1, 2014 by NT80

Side Show Joe · December 1, 2014

Well said Harry. That was my first thought after the game. Only I was far too angry to spell it out. This program can't afford losses to UTSA. I was mad after we lost to them last season. This loss is beyond embarrassing. We can't even call our series a rivalry.... We have to win a game before it can be a rivalry!

This season was horrible, but the way it ended is even more disturbing. North Texas can't afford coaches that can't beat UTSA. Things need to change and quick. Were it not for SMU, we would be the worst football program in Texas. At least SMU is fixing their problem, and hiring a new coach.

I have yet to hear anything from McCarney that makes me feel better about the direction of our program. I'm not sure if Mac, RV, the administrators, or the BOR understand just how much anger there is within the fanbase. If they don't step up to the plate and fix this program now, they will understand next year when season tickets are up for renewal. I hope they don't want season ticket holders to turn into walk up ticket sales.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Side Show Joe

cogido · December 1, 2014

We talk a lot on this board, maybe some of you are making the point to regents ,others, etc. I doubt that the right people read our internet conversations.

foutsrouts · December 1, 2014

Well said Harry. That was my first thought after the game. Only I was far too angry to spell it out. This program can't afford losses to UTSA. I was mad after we lost to them last season. This loss is beyond embarrassing. We can't even call our series a rivalry.... We have to win a game before it can be a rivalry!

This season was horrible, but the way it ended is even more disturbing. North Texas can't afford coaches that can't beat UTSA. Things need to change and quick. Were it not for SMU, we would be the worst football program in Texas. At least SMU is fixing their problem, and hiring a new coach.

I have yet to hear anything from McCarney that makes me feel better about the direction of our program. I'm not sure if Mac, RV, the administrators, or the BOR understand just how much anger there is within the fanbase. If they don't step up to the plate and fix this program now, they will understand next year when season tickets are up for renewal. I hope they don't want season ticket holders to turn into walk up ticket sales.

The sad thing is that I really don't think that they give a damn.

NT80 · December 1, 2014

The sad thing is that I really don't think that they give a damn.

For most coaches and administrators it's just a temporary job, there is no lifetime connection like many fans have. They can leave the mess behind, we're stuck here with it.

UNT90 · December 1, 2014

Well said Harry. That was my first thought after the game. Only I was far too angry to spell it out. This program can't afford losses to UTSA. I was mad after we lost to them last season. This loss is beyond embarrassing. We can't even call our series a rivalry.... We have to win a game before it can be a rivalry!

This season was horrible, but the way it ended is even more disturbing. North Texas can't afford coaches that can't beat UTSA. Things need to change and quick. Were it not for SMU, we would be the worst football program in Texas. At least SMU is fixing their problem, and hiring a new coach.

I have yet to hear anything from McCarney that makes me feel better about the direction of our program. I'm not sure if Mac, RV, the administrators, or the BOR understand just how much anger there is within the fanbase. If they don't step up to the plate and fix this program now, they will understand next year when season tickets are up for renewal. I hope they don't want season ticket holders to turn into walk up ticket sales.

They faced the same thing last year with basketball tickets. They simply don't care. They demonstrate as much by not holding the athletic director accountable.

There will only be accountability when athletics goes over budget.

oldguystudent · December 1, 2014

On average, I get to one basketball game a year. There are many factors for that, but that's where it lies.

I'm a tad bit more invested on the football side, and I am loathe to let my tickets go to waste.

That said, there are days when I'm numb to the product on the field, and I'm just happy to have a place to go hang out for food and drinks.

I have zero individual influence on this thing. None. Good, bad, or indifferent, nobody cares what I think, and I highly doubt anybody cares what anybody else here thinks. I for sure learned that the hard way when the infallible pope of Kimball Ave roamed the sidelines of Southlake North. Down 75 points at halftime? Don't you dare say a thing. It's all candy canes and lollipops round here.

We can call for this move or that move, but we're playing with somebody else's checkbook when we do that (invariably by demanding a HUGE student fee increase because, hey, that's easy). Suffice it to say that I believe everybody on this board is paying out as much as they ever will, so not much room for growth there.

But is it even a money thing? The revenue has skyrocketed since 2006. I posted that a while ago, and I don't recall exactly, but I think even adjusting for inflation that our revenue has doubled since 2006. It reminds me a lot of my old textbook days, watching various levels of government throw millions upon millions upon uncounted millions at failed schools and districts. I had customers calling me up begging me to help them spend money because they didn't know what to do with it all. They had so much money, they were buying school vehicles with custom rims FFS. Wanna take a wild stab in the dark guess as to how much their student performance improved?

So I'm left with hope that things get better, faith that the pendulum will eventually swing, and vague memories of hazy dreams of a baseball stadium that almost was, but appears to now never be.

Throw whatever vitriolic mirror you want at me, but I don't think there's anything I can do. Stand still, stand up, do a little middle aged white man shimmy. None of it matters.

But man, do I have a sweet, sweet view, and I love setting up a table on the terrace during the game.

untjim1995 · December 1, 2014

Well....several of us could see this coming after last year. All you had to do was look at the roster and see backup players were not being groomed for this year in blowout games; very easy to predict a major downturn.

We thought it foolish to give a contract extension before seeing if real adjustments and talent evaluations could be made by this staff and they weren't. Look at the QB evaluation mess as an example.

No fan wants losing programs. Knowing what caused the losing and what the coaching staff and support structure can do to fix it determines staying the course or changing course. Some of us see a cliff ahead, some don't.

I never questioned Mac getting an extension for what he put together last year. It was well-deserved, if for nothing else you tell the fanbase that winning will be rewarded here. However, IIRc Dickey got two-year extensions after our bowl win, not a five year extension. That is the issue here, since we know that if you don't perform well, it doesn't matter because we put the value on cost, not winning. There is zero doubt that Dan McCarney will be our head coach in 2017, unless he resigns, which would only happen because of health. Not likely...

As some have posted, what football games have become at UNT is the chance to tailgate with your friends and family. Tickets are cheap and easily available. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg to attend and setup a tailgate for a full day, like it does at most other places. It is by far the smartest decision that the university (see RV) ever instituted, as you have seen attendance increase dramatically since it was instituted back in 2001 when RV got here. And I think that with Apogee having been built with this tailgating phenomenon that has grown at UNT, that has more than easily checked the box for athletics funding and promotion for these leaders.

McCarney is a good coach, albeit stubborn and boring. He knows how to speak in public (unlike Dickey). He knows how to coach college football (unlike Dodge). He is better than either of them, by a long ways actually. In 4 years here, he has amassed a total record of 22-27, which is way better than his predecessors, who went in four years here 13-33 (Dickey) and Dodge (6-37), obviously. Again, to the leaders here, that is just fine with them--it shows progress, which is unarguable in their minds, especially for the increased costs of Mac and his staff, as compared to the previous two. Dickey's bad mouthing would never have gotten any major extension from the BOR, and Dodge's losses were the only reason he finally got fired in the end (since he never really bad-mouthed the school). At this point, all we can do as fans is to pray that the positive and upbeat Dan McCarney shows back up and that his pride has been damaged so much from this season that he will be singularly focused on turning this thing back around. The problem is that 2015 isn't going to be that season--we have a poor QB, a brand new OL, and a Defensive front seven that is still undersized and young. And all this is in play while we have the hardest schedule we have had in a long time here. To me, the best hope for us to be a winner again is at best 2016, since 2017 will have a schedule that is identical to 2015 (nice job on the Iowa 2 for none!!). Even with a new OC next year, the best you can really hope for with McNulty as the QB is 4-5 wins, IMO, since his line will be worse than this year from an experience perspective, and the defense will still have a lot of work to get back to the form of 2013, which is the only way you can win at UNT when you run a boring offense (see 2002-2004, and 2013). But that's best case scenario, to me. I don't see how you can expect anything better next year. We aren't going to be better than Rice, UTSA, UTEP, La Tech, USM, or UAB in division play. Maybe we get an F_U underachiever on the schedule from the East again, maybe SMU is still so bad that they cannot even beat us in our "alternative" home game, and maybe we buy another Nicholls State type of opponent to beat down. Again, I just don't see more than 4 wins in that bunch, with a real possibility of 1-2 wins again. If we only win 3 games or less, that will be the 11th time since we came back up to Division 1-A in 1995 to finish with that number of wins in a season, out of 21 years. When that is your track record, you obviously understand why its almost impossible to convince many of us who have been around here for decades to believe that we will ever demand having a winner in revenue sports from the higher ups. Instead, that demand from those folks is to have a budget maker who doesn't complain out loud. Guys like RV, Trilli, Dodge, and, so far, Benford and McCarney have been rewarded with this rule to follow. And that's why its not gonna ever change here. The people that make the hiring decisions know that the UNT Family don't want major funding to go at UNT Athletics for the cost of "winning"--they want it to be as minimal as possible so it doesn't take away from the areas of the university that are considered as the preferred window to the school.

As I have pointed out several times, that may be the correct way to do it, but literally no other FBS university in Texas or in the region of the country does it this way. Your ideal alum everywhere else comes back to the university for athletics because of the many opportunities they provide. And, for me, that is why I have watched so many of my friends and fellow alums follow UT, OU, LSU, Arkansas, A&M, Tech, Baylor, TCU, and other P5 giants--this place literally told them that the area that they care about most as a supporter of the university doesn't matter here as much as you want it to, that there are other schools that offer what you want, so go follow them instead--and take your dirty, unrefined dollars with them. We don't want that kind of "support" here.

Edited December 1, 2014 by untjim1995

The Fake Lonnie Finch · December 1, 2014

I enjoy the football games.

I like that our graduations rates are way up.

I like that we have never been on NCAA probation.

The football players are student athletes, part student and part athlete. After their eligibility, they will be human out trying to get jobs. I am proud that our coaches are doing well by them academically.

I am different and better than you because I accept that the better/more competitive program ship sailed years ago - 32 years ago. We never joined the arms race. We are a peaceful people. We are Switzerland.

For those reasons, we are what we are: a program that never cheated or cut corners to get ahead or "catch up." And, now, with coaches who see that the players' do well academically so that they can make a living and support their families when they leave.

I'm done with the cutthroat nature of it. The Criminal 5 has cut everyone else off, making these fervent and overfevered discussions as pointless as the bickering between Darth Vader and Admiral Motti.

Cerebus · December 1, 2014

He is better than either of them, by a long ways actually.

Woah woah woah. Dickey is far ahead of Mac in at least one category: recruiting.

I am not going to dig it up the post again, but I researched it and Dickey signed 12 Dallas Morning News State Top 100 recruits. Tee Goree was Mac's first.

UNTcrazy727 · December 1, 2014

Woah woah woah. Dickey is far ahead of Mac in at least one category: recruiting.

I am not going to dig it up the post again, but I researched it and Dickey signed 12 Dallas Morning News State Top 100 recruits. Tee Goree was Mac's first.

One could argue that Dodge was a better recruiter as well.

untjim1995 · December 1, 2014

Woah woah woah. Dickey is far ahead of Mac in at least one category: recruiting.

I am not going to dig it up the post again, but I researched it and Dickey signed 12 Dallas Morning News State Top 100 recruits. Tee Goree was Mac's first.

Well, Dickey had one advantage, then...just trails him in wins and PR skills. They are equal in bowl wins and poor use of the QB position, from both recruiting and a playbook perspective.

Cerebus · December 1, 2014

They are equal in bowl wins and poor use of the QB position, from both recruiting and a playbook perspective.

I think Dickey's teams recruited about the same but developed the QB's better.

He came in with Simon's QB recruits Mills, Attaway and LaDarrin McClane.

Dickey then recruited Bridges, who started one year and didn't pan out.

Up next were Scott Hall, who is the nest QB we've had since the return to 1A. When hall goes down in 2002 Dickey recruit Andrew Smith guides the team to a bowl win.

Smith then tragically dies in a car accident.

Joey Byerly was a splashy recruit who had everyone salivating and looked like he was the heir apparent, but he grades got him.

Woody Wilson showed a lot of promise, led us to a win against SMU, but didn't pan out in the end.

Daniel Meager was the next starter, we never got to see what he could become. He wasn't a Dodge QB and he was replaced by Vizza.

One and a half seasons after the last bowl game, Dickey get fired.

Compare that to Mac:

DT was a Dodge recruit. I think he pretty much was the same QB he was the entire time here. In other words he wasn't developed as much as he could have.

Mac has recruited: Andrew McNulty, Dajon Williams, Josh Greer, Connor Means...

Green P1 · December 1, 2014

As to the thread title.... I bet we do.

SilverEagle · December 1, 2014

If it's just the losses that makes people finally take notice and start to demand better around here then they aren't paying very good attention.
Rick

+1 my friend. I've been saying for years that our changes need to be (as they said in" American Hustle") from the "feet up".

The changes need to be cultural. Our new President needs to hear that message before he becomes corrupted by our long lingering administrative culture of indifference, about athletics. And our lack of promotion of school traditions that lead to REAL school spirit.

SilverEagle · December 1, 2014

But is it even a money thing? The revenue has skyrocketed since 2006. I posted that a while ago, and I don't recall exactly, but I think even adjusting for inflation that our revenue has doubled since 2006. It reminds me a lot of my old textbook days, watching various levels of government throw millions upon millions upon uncounted millions at failed schools and districts. I had customers calling me up begging me to help them spend money because they didn't know what to do with it all. They had so much money, they were buying school vehicles with custom rims FFS. Wanna take a wild stab in the dark guess as to how much their student performance improved?

I have said for years that you can throw educational money at any academically poor performing community, but that doesn't really change the core issue. And that "core issue" is that people have to care about their children's education before upgraded facilities can make a real impact. How do you get educationally unmotivated parents to care about their children's education?

The same question applies to our student/alumni base of (by some estimates) over 200K?

Edited December 1, 2014 by SilverEagle