60,416.67

Got5onIt · November 18, 2014

I think untjim is right. Mac will be here at least another 3 seasons. Have we all forgotten the Teflon Todd debacle??? That dude should've been canned after year 2, but RV kept him around for 2 more seasons. The most worthless college football coach in the history of NT, rode it out for nearly 4 years. Mac has a winning season and a Bowl win, no telling how much of a safety net he'll get with RV.

With that said, it's not reasonable to talk about canning Mac after this year. He's earned the right to get at least one more season. Lots of disappointment this year, no question about it, but we need to wait and see what happens in 2015 before anyone starts calling for his head, IMO. Unless he retires, I'm thinking RV gives him 3 more years regardless of performance.........

Edited November 18, 2014 by Got5onIt

CMJ · November 18, 2014

My patents attended University of Florida so I am a raised Gator but a chosen Eagle, so I do follow another program. A program that is similar to UNT's current situation. I have high expectations I guess.

It's really not similar at all. Expectations come from history. Our history since the 70's is mostly losing with the occasional awesome season sandwiched in there.

Also, untjim1995's posts were rather spot on.

Ben Gooding · November 18, 2014

It's really not similar at all. Expectations come from history. Our history since the 70's is mostly losing with the occasional awesome season sandwiched in there.

Also, untjim1995's posts were rather spot on.

I guess we should just tuck our tails and just expect and be satisfied with garbage? Have no expectations.

CMJ · November 18, 2014

I guess we should just tuck our tails and just expect and be satisfied with garbage? Have no expectations.

Not saying that either. It's a gradual thing though. If you expect things to change overnight, then you're either gonna give up entirely within a few years, become embittered, or give yourself a stroke. Or some combo of the three.

I think things have changed since I was a student, just not as much as we'd like. You just have to get used to baby steps or this program will kill you.

VideoEagle · November 18, 2014

Not saying that either. It's a gradual thing though. If you expect things to change overnight, then you're either gonna give up entirely within a few years, become embittered, or give yourself a stroke. Or some combo of the three.

I think things have changed since I was a student, just not as much as we'd like. You just have to get used to baby steps or this program will kill you.

Yes, it's like turning a super tanker. Changing culture - I agree with SilverEagle this needs to happen - in any organization is the single most difficult thing to accomplish. The momentum you must overcome is tremendous.

MeanGreenTexan · November 18, 2014

Yes, it's like turning a super tanker. Changing culture - I agree with SilverEagle this needs to happen - in any organization is the single most difficult thing to accomplish. The momentum you must overcome is tremendous.

I agree. I think maybe alot of people were just hoping that last year's complete surprise of a season was a jumpstart to something incredible.

As it turns out, it was not. Hopefully it was not a blip on the radar either. Hopefully it was a building block to great years for the Mean Green in the near future.

meangreenbob · November 18, 2014

Everybody (especially RV and the BOR) ought to be watching next season very closely.

That's like making the wolf guard over the hen house. RV along with the BOR are the reason we are stuck in mediocrity. And that's saying it mildly.

Edited November 18, 2014 by meangreenbob

Ben Gooding · November 18, 2014

Not saying that either. It's a gradual thing though. If you expect things to change overnight, then you're either gonna give up entirely within a few years, become embittered, or give yourself a stroke. Or some combo of the three.

I think things have changed since I was a student, just not as much as we'd like. You just have to get used to baby steps or this program will kill you.

I agree and I fully understand, but when do we put up a wall and insist that enough is enough? I'm not stressing about this as I may put out to be, but I think that this university/fan base deserves better. We have been put to the test more times than not and I have only been a part of it for a short time. I think fans and alums eventually have to push back and push back hard or the same ole, same ole is going to keep happening. Chants in the stadium, emails in mass, signs around campus and God forbid the major donors look the other way. This is what happens at the big boy universities and we have to at least have in perspective the same realistic expectations and reactions as they have or we will forever be the same.

meangreenbob · November 18, 2014

Not saying that either. It's a gradual thing though. If you expect things to change overnight, then you're either gonna give up entirely within a few years, become embittered, or give yourself a stroke. Or some combo of the three.

I think things have changed since I was a student, just not as much as we'd like. You just have to get used to baby steps or this program will kill you.

Yes, but you have to be more cognizant. RV has had 15 years. How many more baby steps do you need in order to realize change is needed at the AD postion? Also, Mac has had plenty of time to prove himself. This should have been his big break out year and we should be playing for the conference championship this year. Don't you ever let anyone convince you differently.

Remember when Mac came in here his first year and before the start of that season he pubicly demeaned the players recruited by his predecessor by saying they were too small, too slow....not very athletic? Now wouldn't you think that if a man is going to slam the players recruited by another man then he would be damn certain to sign bigger, faster, stronger athletes? Where are they?

And don't you find it the least bit ironic that those other coaches players he publically criticized produced a 9-4 season for him even winning the HOD Bowl. What have Mac's recruits done?

Like I said before, we been had and there ain't a darn thing anyone can do because RV and the board made certain of that by locking themselves into long term onesided contracts.

Go Mean Green! Beat FIU!

Edited November 18, 2014 by meangreenbob

VideoEagle · November 18, 2014

I agree and I fully understand, but when do we put up a wall and insist that enough is enough? I'm not stressing about this as I may put out to be, but I think that this university/fan base deserves better.

That's the really hard part about being a change agent, if you press too hard you fail every time. I'll give you an example from business, bring in new software for a way of doing things. At my old company, a new system for documenting and tracking work done, costs, hours spent was bought by a manager from an outside vendor. She'd seen a demo of how well it worked. She bought it, paid for some significant modification for our company and told everyone to start using it. We even had a full day with a trainer. On X day, we switched and it was a disaster. It required everyone to change the basic way they do their job. Ever though we all agreed change could be better, it made things difficult for everyone. Productivity crashed as did moral. This outsider came in and told us how this software would help our work, but what did he know about our work?

This same thing happens all across the the world. It is why books, courses and even entire degrees are created to teach how to successfully be a change agent. If you just stand up and demand "better" from the athletic department you will not only get nothing, they will actively work to prevent what you want from happening. Many of the people in any company were there before you got there and feel they will be there after you are gone. Why should they change for you, even if they actually know change is better?

Changing a culture is agonizingly slow. And every time you bring in a new manager, the process actually starts over. Change is not easy or quick.

Ben Gooding · November 18, 2014

Yeah, a culture change is a slow process. The current coaching staff isn't getting it done and none of us have any reason or hope to believe that they will. So why prolong the agonizing process? And I don't think we need a revolution around here to beat utep, USM, FIU, utsa, UAB, etc. We need better coaching and recruiting. Bottom line..this current trio of coaches isn't getting it done and one is getting ready to ride off into retirement fully aware of that. A poker player doesn't fold with dealt aces, he folds with a 2 and 9.

greenminer · November 18, 2014

Yeah, a culture change is a slow process. The current coaching staff isn't getting it done and none of us have any reason or hope to believe that they will. So why prolong the agonizing process?

What? Speak for yourself.

Ben Gooding · November 18, 2014

What? Speak for yourself.

Oh really? By your judgement how do we fair in 2015? Consider who we are losing, what we have returning, and in the event this staff brings in a juco/transfer QB remember their talent evaluation at that position. Go ahead, how do we fair in 2015? Don't worry, I'll wait.

VideoEagle · November 18, 2014

Simply firing the coaches to "push reset" doesn't usually work. There was a big study done a few years back that shows when losing teams at the 1A/FBS level fire their coaches they don't typically improve into a winning team till around year 3 or 4. Yes, some teams improve that first year, but over 80% don't. I bookmarked the study and it's here.

That's for the team. As for changing the culture, firing everybody tells those who were resisting the culture change they were right all along. They outlasted the coaches that wanted to change before and will at last the new ones again. For culture change, unless you fire the entire University, you make the change even harder.

As I wrote, it's not easy. If it was, it would have happened 30 years ago!