North Texas & Florida: A similar situation, except...

NT80 · November 16, 2014

One gives an early contract extension and one gives a pink-slip.

"Will Muschamp is stepping down as Florida's coach after the regular season, forced out after a four-year tenure that will be remembered for inept offense, conservative play-calling and nearly as many losses as wins in the Southeastern Conference...

Upon evaluation of our football program, we are not where the program needs to be and should be," athletic director Jeremy Foley said in a statement Sunday. "I've always said that our goal at the University of Florida is to compete for championships on a regular basis. ..."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/texas-longhorns/20141116-florida-fires-will-muschamp-who-was-destined-to-be-longhorns-coach.ece

Edited November 16, 2014 by NT80

NorthTexan95 · November 16, 2014

Not similar at all.

SilverEagle · November 16, 2014

One gives an early contract extension and one gives a pink-slip.

"Will Muschamp is stepping down as Florida's coach after the regular season, forced out after a four-year tenure that will be remembered for inept offense, conservative play-calling and nearly as many losses as wins in the Southeastern Conference...

Upon evaluation of our football program, we are not where the program needs to be and should be," athletic director Jeremy Foley said in a statement Sunday.

How is that even remotely similar to our goal of being..... "the best little teachers college football program in the State of Texas"........or at least in Denton County.......assuming of course that TWU doesn't start a football program.

NT80 · November 16, 2014

Not similar at all.

You are right, not similar.

Muschamp is 27-20 at Florida and 17-15 in conference.

McCarney is 21-26 at North Texas and 14-15 in conference.

You tell me who has the better coach.?.

meaniegreenie · November 16, 2014

How is that even remotely similar to our goal of being..... "the best little teachers college football program in the State of Texas"........or at least in Denton County.......assuming of course that TWU doesn't start a football program.

I'm sure it's a common sight around Denton, but I'd never seen it before. It was a T-shirt that said something like: "TWU Football...undefeated"

Ben Gooding · November 16, 2014

It is similar. The 2 differences are one program has standards and expectations as where one does not. Our expectation and the administrations expectation should be CUSA championship. Why even field a damn team if that's not what they are striving towards?

VideoEagle · November 16, 2014

There is one very significant difference. Florida - #6 in total athletic department revenue at roughly $130 million. NT is #78 in revenue at roughly $28 million. We don't have the budget to make decisions like that even if we wanted to. Compare us to a G5 school firing it's coach for not competing on a regular basis for national championships!

Ben Gooding · November 16, 2014

CUSA championships. The expectations should be similar, but obviously on a smaller level wise guy. But we have an incompetent AD that has handcuffed us in scheduling and has now handcuffed us with bad coaching. We are in a financial fiasco bc of our AD. Our AD handed out an extension midseason like we were one of the big boys knowing full well that if it didn't pan out (which it isn't) that we would be stuck.

Our expectations should be championships (CUSA) just like Florida, but they have the money to buy out contracts and we don't. So without the money a 5 year extension should NEVER be handed out at this level. It's frustrating. Mac has a giant ego and will honestly think he has what it takes to win, but he doesn't. So he will not step down on his own accord and really why would he. It's not his fault we have a subpar AD making boneheaded decisions. I am absolutely done with this AD. He's gotta go.

Honest question...

What power does the Prez have in making changes or influencing athletic decisions? He might know that athletics is the best platform for the university and he might (hopefully) push the envelope and turn on some seat warmers.

NT80 · November 16, 2014

There is one very significant difference. Florida - #6 in total athletic department revenue at roughly $130 million. NT is #78 in revenue at roughly $28 million. We don't have the budget to make decisions like that even if we wanted to. Compare us to a G5 school firing it's coach for not competing on a regular basis for national championships!

Not really. Muschamp is being terminated in his 4th season of a 5-year contract. NT offered a contract extension to Mac after his 3rd, instead of waiting. Some of us were saying RV should wait and see how he does his 4th year with his own recruits after a lot of Dodge's seniors were gone. Now we know and now we're stuck for another 3 years until we can afford a change, if needed. The way it's going, it will be needed.

Edited November 17, 2014 by NT80

BillySee58 · November 16, 2014

You are right, not similar.

Muschamp is 27-20 at Florida and 17-15 in conference.

McCarney is 21-26 at North Texas and 14-15 in conference.

You tell me who has the better coach.?.

That's not why they're similar situations. I talked about it in another thread, but Muschamp won 11 games in 2012, using a bunch of Urban Meyer's recruits. But he couldn't have as much success as the team started to become more of his recruits. He didn't recruit well, and it showed once all the Meyer kids were gone.

Difference is, Coach Mac has only had 1 down season since his breakthrough year. This is Muschamp's second season since his breakout year. Other difference is that Florida waited to see if Muschamp could have extended success, and with his recruits, while Mac was extended after the breakthrough season.

Ben Gooding · November 16, 2014

Another difference is that Florida has at least been competitive in all of their games unlike us. Just being competitive doesn't keep you around at Florida. Another difference if it weren't for the canceled Idaho game Florida would be 6-4, whereas UNT would consider Mac a Godsend at 6-4; hence the premature extension. 6-4 at Florida brings firings whereas it brings extensions and raises to UNT. Either way you peel the onion they are both in year 4 and they both have had only 1 good season. That's a pretty big similarity in a CFB world of wins and losses.

NT80 · November 17, 2014

...Muschamp won 11 games in 2012, using a bunch of Urban Meyer's recruits. But he couldn't have as much success as the team started to become more of his recruits. He didn't recruit well, and it showed once all the Meyer kids were gone.
Difference is, Coach Mac has only had 1 down season since his breakthrough year. This is Muschamp's second season since his breakout year. Other difference is that Florida waited to see if Muschamp could have extended success, and with his recruits, while Mac was extended after the breakthrough season.

Yes, Mac won 9 games last year with mostly Dodge's recruits and was extended. But Mac hasn't recruited well similar to Muschamp and now the results are showing up.

I don't expect much difference in record next year from what we know about the roster and QBs. The extension came too soon. Florida didn't extend and can now afford to make a change in year 4 while we now have to wait until probably year 7 to afford a change.

TheWestie · November 17, 2014

I'm sure it's a common sight around Denton, but I'd never seen it before. It was a T-shirt that said something like: "TWU Football...undefeated"

Got5onIt · November 17, 2014

So Floridians will never get to see the jumping, mid-air, booty bump Muschamp used to do with his Texas players after every decent defensive play?

SilverEagle · November 17, 2014

Okay, I need to know where I can get one of these for my wife.

TIgreen01 · November 17, 2014

CUSA championships. The expectations should be similar, but obviously on a smaller level wise guy. But we have an incompetent AD that has handcuffed us in scheduling and has now handcuffed us with bad coaching. We are in a financial fiasco bc of our AD. Our AD handed out an extension midseason like we were one of the big boys knowing full well that if it didn't pan out (which it isn't) that we would be stuck.
Our expectations should be championships (CUSA) just like Florida, but they have the money to buy out contracts and we don't. So without the money a 5 year extension should NEVER be handed out at this level. It's frustrating. Mac has a giant ego and will honestly think he has what it takes to win, but he doesn't. So he will not step down on his own accord and really why would he. It's not his fault we have a subpar AD making boneheaded decisions. I am absolutely done with this AD. He's gotta go.
Honest question...
What power does the Prez have in making changes or influencing athletic decisions? He might know that athletics is the best platform for the university and he might (hopefully) push the envelope and turn on some seat warmers.

I think people need to look harder into what VideoEagle posted above. UNT ranks 78th in revenue. There are ~65 P5 schools that we will likely never catch (they get anywhere from $20-30 million/year TV payout just by being in a P5 conference). Throw those schools out and we are top 20 out of all the remaining G5 schools. That includes AAC, MWC, CUSA, MAC, SuckBelt. Most of the AAC has us beat, but we are right near the top of the rest. I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that the administration is committed to making us competitive with our true peers.

All the emotions from having a disappointing season are getting the best of too many smart people that post on this board. Yes, on-field football results have sucked this year. That's something that can be corrected, though. But look at the bigger picture and I think you'll see a lot more positives, both present and future.

chomp · November 17, 2014

I wouldn't give UF too much credit, Muschamp got two contract extensions despite only one decent season during his tenure. UF is now on the hook for three years of his salary plus that of the assistant coaches.

Eagle1855 · November 17, 2014

...one of them is their state's flagship institution?

...one of them has endless resources?

...one of them gets first pick of every local recruit?

...one of them can spend as much as they want on coaches and coordinators?

...one of them plays in a high-profile conference?

VideoEagle · November 17, 2014

I wouldn't give UF too much credit, Muschamp got two contract extensions despite only one decent season during his tenure. UF is now on the hook for three years of his salary plus that of the assistant coaches.

Didn't real he'd had two extensions already.

MeanGreenTexan · November 17, 2014

...one of them is their state's flagship institution?

...one of them has endless resources?

...one of them gets first pick of every local recruit?

...one of them can spend as much as they want on coaches and coordinators?

...one of them plays in a high-profile conference?

... one of them cannot figure out if they were named after a famous alumnus or not?

Eagle1855 · November 17, 2014

... one of them cannot figure out if they were named after a famous alumnus or not?

It's fairly common knowledge the University of Florida football team was named in honor of the revolutionary sports beverage industry titan, William F. Gator, so I don't know what you're getting at.

Ben Gooding · November 17, 2014

One of them give extensions that handcuff their entire program for who knows how long. One of them laugh at having to absorb 6 mil to find a new coach. So one of them can give extensions to please the big wigs. One of then will not buyout more than one year on any contract so therefore one of them should never give 5 year extensions after ONE good year. One of them have great players on their roster whereas one of then struggle to get 3 star recruits and the cupboard is looking uggggllllyyy. And the most important...one of them have expectations.

This is a bad year and the wanna be diehard (no offense) would use the logic of it's only one year (actually 3). But the true diehard knows what is ahead and who is returning. And let me tell you, it's disheartening. We HAVE to go JUCO or graduate transfer at QB or expect 4-8 or worse next year. It's just the reality of the situation. Also, we will have to out score opponents next year to win bc the defense will be worse than it has been this year. Well God help us doing that with this HC, philosophy, and QB stable. Prepare yourselves gents, it's going to be a rough ride.

TIgreen01 · November 17, 2014

One of them give extensions that handcuff their entire program for who knows how long. One of them laugh at having to absorb 6 mil to find a new coach. So one of them can give extensions to please the big wigs. One of then will not buyout more than one year on any contract so therefore one of them should never give 5 year extensions after ONE good year. One of them have great players on their roster whereas one of then struggle to get 3 star recruits and the cupboard is looking uggggllllyyy. And the most important...one of them have expectations.
This is a bad year and the wanna be diehard (no offense) would use the logic of it's only one year (actually 3). But the true diehard knows what is ahead and who is returning. And let me tell you, it's disheartening. We HAVE to go JUCO or graduate transfer at QB or expect 4-8 or worse next year. It's just the reality of the situation. Also, we will have to out score opponents next year to win bc the defense will be worse than it has been this year. Well God help us doing that with this HC, philosophy, and QB stable. Prepare yourselves gents, it's going to be a rough ride.

The true diehard is not looking ahead just one season.

untjim1995 · November 17, 2014

You are right, not similar.

Muschamp is 27-20 at Florida and 17-15 in conference.

McCarney is 21-26 at North Texas and 14-15 in conference.

You tell me who has the better coach.?.

If Will Muschamp coached at UNT, I'd bet you that we wouldn't be anywhere near 27-20 in his tenure. He'd be like every other assistant coach he has never had a college head coaching position before he got here, which is terrible. If Mac was at Florida, I take my chances that he would have done better than Coach Boom, who goes down as one of the worst hires I have ever seen a big time college football program make. Florida could have hired ANYONE how had experience as a head coach and had proven to be a winner and they chose a guy who had never been a head coach before, only knew how to coach defense. How shocking that he would be an inept offensive football coach even with the talent of one of the two best places on earth to get recruits from, Florida high schools.

As for the argument about the extension, if you just watched your head coach, in his third year, take over a program that had just won a grand total 12 games in the previous 6 seasons under two head coaches, and by that third year, it was going 9-4 and winning a bowl game in your backyard in front of 40k of your fans, which is double what you can usually hope will attend a game in Denton, and then don't give him an extension of some note--I'd have felt two or three years would have been appropriate--then you have just told everyone in the region how littel you care about that achievement and the entire program. He deserved the extension--maybe it was too long, but he deserved it. Everbody keeps saying, "He did it with Dodge's recruits!!", Well, that's what we paid him to do, develop those guys into something that could actually win games, which he did. The head coach who got them here to UNT managed to oversee all of 6 wins, while losing 37 of them.

As far as this year, its completely clear that his OC just flat out cannot judge QB talent for a G5 program. Maybe he could when he was at NC State or USF, but he cannot do it here. I trust that Coach Mac will make the correct move at the end oif this season and get a new OC who can hopefull find someone who can actually play FBS football, instead of being a guy who couldn't start right now at Denton HS. In reality, we don't have any choice. We have to believe in Mac, until he shows us he cannot turn this thing back around. He'll be here for three more season beyond this, so its all we can hope for. We won't buy him out. If we wouldn't buyout Vic Trilli or Todd Dodge, we ain't buying out the richest contract in the history of the school (or for that matter, the 2nd richest in Tony Benford). Its all we got--we either try to stand behind the guy who finally made us proud of UNT Football again after that 2013 season or we just give up on the program for the next few years or forever. There are plenty who have taken that last path, but for me, I'm gonna give him a chance to show me that he can develop this bunch into a winner again in a couple of seasons. Because, really, if I'm gonna stay a fan of UNT Football, I really don't have any other choice right now...