What does everyone think of the Spread Offense

VideoEagle · November 16, 2014

My question is, when Mac had Seneca Wallace as his QB during his only successful seasons at Iowa State, did he run the ball 70% of the time? Were the defense and special teams utterly dominant? Or did he use a quarterback who was clearly a spread qb, in a system where he would succeed? Or, did Wallace just improvise an ancient offense and basically give Mac the middle finger while being successful

Seneca Wallace was the starter 2001 and 2002. In 2001 ISU was 5th in the Big 12 in passing yards and in 2002 they were 2nd. In 2001 ISU went 7-5, in 2002 they went 7-7 but Coach Mac's best year with 9-3 in 2000 WITHOUT Seneca Wallace starting. They also went went 7-5 in 2004 and 2005 without Seneca Wallace! So the Coach Mac's "only successful years" were NOT only when he had Seneca Wallace at Quarterback.

Ben Gooding · November 16, 2014

Seneca Wallace was the starter 2001 and 2002. In 2001 ISU was 5th in the Big 12 in passing yards and in 2002 they were 2nd. In 2001 ISU went 7-5, in 2002 they went 7-7 but Coach Mac's best year with 9-3 in 2000 WITHOUT Seneca Wallace starting. They also went went 7-5 in 2004 and 2005 without Seneca Wallace! So the Coach Mac's "only successful years" were NOT only when he had Seneca Wallace at Quarterback.

I don't care. Mac was a loser there and he'll end up being a loser here and God help wherever he may end up if he keeps coaching after his firing in 2024.

BillySee58 · November 16, 2014

Spread offenses are the great equalizer for under-sized or less talented teams against better opponents. The Boise's and Appy State's are examples, even North Texas between 1975-79.

Hayden Fry was a master at running multiple offensive sets and gadget plays, or exotics, as he called them, before they were popular. He wanted to force opponents to have to practice defense against any kind of known offense...to help wear them out and confuse them before the game even started.

Anyone can call off-tackle plays and short passes to the flat for 2 yard gains. That leads to 3-7 records and bored fans, players, and potential recruits!

Exactly. Of course, it needs to be run right, coached well, right personnel in, and, executed. But yes, it is the great equalizer.

Utah beat Alabama in the 09 sugar bowl by spreading them out and throwing for 336 yards and not throwing interceptions. Protecting the ball and making big throws. They only ran for 13 yards net, about 40 total. If they tried to run a Coach Mac offense and pound the ball against that Alabama front they would've had no chance. But they spread things out and gave themselves a chance.

A heavy run, under center offense can be more successful than a spread or multiple offense that incorporates spread. Especially if the former is executed better. But, like I said, every non-power conference team that ever made noise since the BCS era began has spread teams out. Some lined up and ran under center too, while some did very little running from under center. You can win games running the offense we do, as a G5. But you limit your potential, IMO.

VideoEagle · November 16, 2014

I don't care.

I think that pretty much wraps up this entire thread!

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 17, 2014

I think we will eventually need a younger coach who is not as traditional as Mac to attract a QB who can run the spread.

Keith7 · November 17, 2014

We need to pass to our tight ends mores. That's always the answer, right?

LongJim · November 17, 2014

Maybe "the great equalizer" 15 years ago. It's certainly not now. If you can't play defense then it's a non-factor. UNT should never run a true run and gun spread. Ever.

Edited November 17, 2014 by LongJim

MeanMag · November 17, 2014

You want to pass more? With a spread/run and gun? I hear June jones is available.

oldguystudent · November 17, 2014

You want to pass more? With a spread/run and gun? I hear June jones is available.

Austin Westlake bowed out of the playoffs early, so their coach is available and isn't tied up with further high school games during recruiting season.

meangreen15 · November 17, 2014

Note to self: Never post a thread after downing a 6 pack

oldguystudent · November 17, 2014

Note to self: Never post a thread after downing a 6 pack

It's ok, buddy. We've all been there. Doesn't change the fact that if I die before once again seeing a shotgun formation pass sailing into the stands on 3rd and inches on the opponent's 12 yard line followed by three timeouts of indecision and a missed field goal, it'll still be too soon and will make me want to return from the great beyond to drown puppies in a torrential river.

BillySee58 · November 17, 2014

Maybe "the great equalizer" 15 years ago. It's certainly not now. If you can't play defense then it's a non-factor. UNT should never run a true run and gun spread. Ever.

Right. So if you run a conservative offense, your defense can't give up big point totals. Like, say, 28 points in a half. Oh, wait..

You're right that if you can't play defense it's a non factor. That goes for any offense you run. It wasn't a great equalizer 15 years ago. It's been a great equalizer, primarily in the years since (i.e. the last 15 years). During that time the spread has evolved greatly.

I agree that we shouldn't run a run and gun, or run and shoot, type spread. I don't want a June Jones offense either. There is not just one type of spread offense. There are even spread offenses that run more than they pass. But June Jones did lead a non-power conference team to a undefeated record and a BCS bowl appearance. Something power running teams NEVER accomplished during the BCS era. They got smashed by Georgia, but they wouldn't have fared any better lining up under center and running the ball. They just didn't have the personnel. They also wouldn't have gone undefeated running a conservative offense either, though.

My point through all of this, is that I want to see us go undefeated, and play in a major bowl game. Beat a team in one of these money games. Like I've said plenty of times, that has NEVER happened for a non-power/G5 school that has tried to line up under center and run in between the tackles. Never, in this modern era of college football. I realize some of you are very scarred from Dodge-ball, but you can have a good defense with a spread offense. And you can mix up formations and line up under center from time to time as well (my type of offense).

meangreen15 · November 17, 2014

My point through all of this, is that I want to see us go undefeated, and play in a major bowl game. Beat a team in one of these money games. Like I've said plenty of times, that has NEVER happened for a non-power/G5 school that has tried to line up under center and run in between the tackles. Never, in this modern era of college football. I realize some of you are very scarred from Dodge-ball, but you can have a good defense with a spread offense. And you can mix up formations and line up under center from time to time as well (my type of offense).

This

Aldo · November 17, 2014

The spread offense is certainly entertaining to watch. Do we currently have the personnel, though? Outside of Marcus Smith, maybe Kidsy, and JWilson, we don't really have the speed or solid WR technique to consistently go down the field.

Another hypothetical: If we had this year's disappointing defense in the Dodge era, would it have been a different story back then? (might have to dig up some stats)

I am not against the philosophy, I'm against poor coaching (Dodge).

We will never forget how bad we had it, but we can't blame offensive scheme for that.

oldguystudent · November 17, 2014

Another hypothetical: If we had this year's disappointing defense in the Dodge era, would it have been a different story back then? (might have to dig up some stats)

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Are you hypothesizing that playing this year's disappointing defense in place of that era's disastrous give up 56 points a half defense would have brought a better win/loss record?

Withers940 · November 17, 2014

Todd Dodge ran the spread. Texas Tech runs the spread; they'll be watching the bowl games from home. Washington State with Mike Leach runs the spread; they'll be watching the bowl games from home.

It doesn't matter what offense you run - you have to have a quarterback to execute. We don't have a quarterback who can run spread...much less whatever it is Canales does...a little of everything.

Run, pass, or even mix of both, we need a decent quarterback

Baylor, Oregon and TCU run the spread and they are looking pretty good. It is easy to find great teams and absolutely awful teams in what ever playbook you find.

Wisconsin and Nebraska seem to be doing well with running the ball in the old school ground and pound offense. Also if you look at Army and New Mexico, they are top 10 in the nation in rushing offense but are both 3-7. It doesn't matter what kind of offensive numbers you put up if you end up giving up 500+ yards on Defense. This defense ranks 54th Nationally in yards given up which doesn't seem that bad but they give up an average of 31 points a game which ranks 94th nationally.

If you look at this teams production on offense, it is very balanced, pitiful but balanced. They average 168.7 yards passing (114th) and 152.7 yards rushing (82nd). It doesn't matter what offense you run but the play calling is the main factor that everyone needs to figure out. Canales is flat out awful at his job and he never shapes his play calling around who the QB is. Could you imagine if we had a OC worth a damn molding an offense around any of the QB's we have currently on this offense. This team is better than what they produce on the field but we shoot ourselves in the foot every game with the shit play calling that is made.

Ryan Munthe · November 17, 2014

Baylor, Oregon and TCU run the spread and they are looking pretty good. It is easy to find great teams and absolutely awful teams in what ever playbook you find.

They also always buckle in big games versus big opponents that gameplan to shut down the offense.

The spread isn't too difficult to beat if you have the right personnel. There's a reason why spread teams don't usually win the big bowls.

BillySee58 · November 17, 2014

They also always buckle in big games versus big opponents that gameplan to shut down the offense.

The spread isn't too difficult to beat if you have the right personnel. There's a reason why spread teams don't usually win the big bowls.

Oregon also didn't sniff a Pac 8/10/12 title from the 1950s through until the 1990s, before there was a spread offense. It helped even the playing field for them. And it's gotten to the point that people criticize them for not winning a national title. A program that went nearly four decades without earning a share of their own conference championship. Baylor used to be the laughing stock of the Big12 not too long ago. Now they're beating Texas every year and people are disappointed that they lost in a BCS bowl. A team that just barely ended a 16-year bowl drought, four years ago.

Of course the SEC powers, USCs, Texas/OUs, Florida States, Ohio States, and Notre Dames of the CFB world are going to win most of the championships. They get the best players, and always have. They have all the advantages. The spread gives teams a chance, if they can't just line up and show they have bigger, stronger, and faster athletes than everyone else in the country. We, along with every G5, belong in that category.

Edited November 17, 2014 by BillySee58

Mean_Green09 · November 17, 2014

They also always buckle in big games versus big opponents that gameplan to shut down the offense.

The spread isn't too difficult to beat if you have the right personnel. There's a reason why spread teams don't usually win the big bowls.

They dont always buckle in big games. Match-ups dictate more often than not if a team can defeat another team. You know OL vs DL. QB & WR vs DBs.

Spread teams with a good accurate QB can defeat Alabama, but if the QB cant thread the pass in there they struggle.

Oregon and Ohio St dominated Michigan St. this year Spread vs Power. You could find just as many games where a spread team defeated a power or pro team as you could the other way around.

Big games in the SEC are a lot different then big games in CUSA. A big game in CUSA is more often than not going to be spread vs spread.

In our case some form of a spread offense is needed. High school football in Texas is all about the spread. Know your recruit base. We already run a spread offense with power run principles. We just don't have enough speed and a QB to make it work. We also lack in the play calling area. Our personnel doesnt fit what we try to do. There are all kinds of problems with this UNT team right now.

ChristopherRyanWilkes · November 17, 2014

Smash mouth football is great too with the right personnel, which doesn't include having one of the smallest lines on both side of the ball in FBS football.

Green P1 · November 17, 2014

Buckling in the big games sure sounds nice compared to buckling in all the games....

MeanGreenTexan · November 17, 2014

Smash mouth football is great too with the right personnel, which doesn't include having one of the smallest lines on both side of the ball in FBS football.

Huh? The OL is VERY large... like #10 in the nation large.

http://sportsnola.com/size-matters-college-footballs-biggest-offensive-linemen/

The Fake Lonnie Finch · November 17, 2014

You want to pass more? With a spread/run and gun? I hear June jones is available.

KA-POW! Love it! Forgot June Jones was free for the spread freaks.

If you can't get the best players - or, even the second or third best players - to run those offenses, they are horrible.

Even that fraud Kliff Kingsbury can't find the QB to run his crappy, gimmicky spread offense at Tech. This writer had him nailed back in September: http://newsok.com/is-texas-techs-kliff-kingsbury-the-anna-kournikova-of-college-football/article/5345248

Aldo · November 17, 2014

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Are you hypothesizing that playing this year's disappointing defense in place of that era's disastrous give up 56 points a half defense would have brought a better win/loss record?

I guess I'm trying to set up an argument against those "but remember the Dodge days" folks.

The spread offense didn't lose us games, it was obviously Dodge's disastrous defense (alliteration up in this). Dodge brought in great recruits, but did nothing with the talent. This staff can't seem to bring in the talent - while showing what they could do with the level of talent brought in by Dodge - and a reason could possibly be this inefficient style of offense.

I love me some hard-nosed football, but as many have said, the times they are a changin'.

untjim1995 · November 17, 2014

I just think we need an offense where the QB can make plays with his arm as much as he can by just handing the ball off. When 95% of the QBs in this state play glorified flag football, going to an offense where Andrew McNulty is the starter because he drives the bus the way we want is gonna just keep you in the same boat we have been in since 1995, sans Giovanni Vizza.

That said, the problem here is the defense is a sieve right now. If our OL blocked better, maybe we could control the clock more and keep the woeful defense off the field--no doubt that would help. But our defense cannot stop any team with a below average offense. They have to be "as-bad-as-offensive-football-can-ever-be" bad for us to win.