UNT finalizing deal that with Incarnate Word for game in 2018

[FirefightnRick]

Your post seems to be incredibly dramatic by comparison.

Thank you for the Snickers, I feel much better now.

Rick

[Travis]

But yet SMU is able to get home and home while being in the exact same position as UNT.

Explain that away, please?

Also, ULM, which is in a far worse position than UNT.

Maybe their ADs work harder and are better negotiators?

Just a thought.

There is absolutely zero excuse for the home scheduled that has happened since Apogee opened.

There is zero excuse for a 5 home game season (maybe, because currently we only have 4 home games scheduled) next year.

The absolute worse thing this AD does.

And that is saying something...

There simply is no explanation to it outside of that the AD wants it this way. As you mentioned and we all heard from the podcast, he would rather it be this way so we can get money.

I recall Gene Stallings saying that we will not be successful until we quit playing money games and simply bite the bullet. He mentioned that the payoff would come in the long run. Hell, it worked for BSU, TCU, ECU, Marshall, etc etc.

I like the AD for working to change the culture here at UNT. And he has done more than any of the AD's before him. But, I am really torn about my satisfaction of him on the job for scheduling. It seems pathetic. I would at least like to see us with some home and homes with New Mexico, ULM, La-La, New Mexico State, Texas State, Tulsa, Air Force, CSU, Arkansas State, Memphis, Tulane, etc if we can't get the bigger schools to come play. Is that so much to ask?

[TheFranchise]

There simply is no explanation to it outside of that the AD wants it this way. As you mentioned and we all heard from the podcast, he would rather it be this way so we can get money.

I recall Gene Stallings saying that we will not be successful until we quit playing money games and simply bite the bullet. He mentioned that the payoff would come in the long run. Hell, it worked for BSU, TCU, ECU, Marshall, etc etc.

I like the AD for working to change the culture here at UNT. And he has done more than any of the AD's before him. But, I am really torn about my satisfaction of him on the job for scheduling. It seems pathetic. I would at least like to see us with some home and homes with New Mexico, ULM, La-La, New Mexico State, Texas State, Tulsa, Air Force, CSU, Arkansas State, Memphis, Tulane, etc if we can't get the bigger schools to come play. Is that so much to ask?

People seem to forget really quickly that TCU played Cal-Davis in '06, Stephen F. Austin in '08, Texas State in '09 (FCS at the time), Tennesee Tech in '10 and Portland State in '11. I won't bother to go beyond '11 simply because they became P5 after that.

It should also be noted that the Horned Frogs' OOC home schedule looked like this from '02-'11:

2002: SMU (3-9), UNT (8-5)

2003: Navy (8-5), Vanderbilt (2-10)

2004: Northwestern (6-6), SMU (3-8)

2005: Army (4-7) -- it should also be noted that TCU only played 11 games in '05 and only had 5 home games

2006: Cal-Davis, Texas Tech (8-5) -- I'll point out here that the Tech game was TCU's first home sellout since 1984

2007: Baylor (3-9), SMU (1-11)

2008: Stephen F. Austin, Stanford (5-7)

2009: Texas State, SMU (8-5) -- I'll point out here that the Utah game this season was the second TCU home sellout since 1984

2010: Tennessee Tech, Baylor (7-6) -- TCU also played Oregon St. at Jerry World, but that was treated as a "road" game. Also, TCU got sellouts 3 and 4 this season in the games against Baylor and Air Force

2011: Louisiana-Monroe (4-8), Portland State -- There was also a Jerry World OOC game against BYU that actually was treated as a "home" game.

My real point is: They had some big-name teams come in here and there, but for the most part they just got beatable big-conference teams in. They won those games and made a name for themselves by winning. To me it's pretty simple. Winning breeds winning and it takes patience in order to do so.

Even when they were gaining momentum and getting better, they still had their setback seasons. (2004 and 2007 to be exact)

The key was that they beat the teams that they "should have" beaten and they competed against the teams they "shouldn't have" beaten, even beating a few of them. They got thumped though, too. But they bounced back.

I honestly think for us, it's less about who we play and about HOW we play. After all . . .

[UNT90]

People seem to forget really quickly that TCU played Cal-Davis in '06, Stephen F. Austin in '08, Texas State in '09 (FCS at the time), Tennesee Tech in '10 and Portland State in '11. I won't bother to go beyond '11 simply because they became P5 after that.

It should also be noted that the Horned Frogs' OOC home schedule looked like this from '02-'11:

2002: SMU (3-9), UNT (8-5)

2003: Navy (8-5), Vanderbilt (2-10)

2004: Northwestern (6-6), SMU (3-8)

2005: Army (4-7) -- it should also be noted that TCU only played 11 games in '05 and only had 5 home games

2006: Cal-Davis, Texas Tech (8-5) -- I'll point out here that the Tech game was TCU's first home sellout since 1984

2007: Baylor (3-9), SMU (1-11)

2008: Stephen F. Austin, Stanford (5-7)

2009: Texas State, SMU (8-5) -- I'll point out here that the Utah game this season was the second TCU home sellout since 1984

2010: Tennessee Tech, Baylor (7-6) -- TCU also played Oregon St. at Jerry World, but that was treated as a "road" game. Also, TCU got sellouts 3 and 4 this season in the games against Baylor and Air Force

2011: Louisiana-Monroe (4-8), Portland State -- There was also a Jerry World OOC game against BYU that actually was treated as a "home" game.

My real point is: They had some big-name teams come in here and there, but for the most part they just got beatable big-conference teams in. They won those games and made a name for themselves by winning. To me it's pretty simple. Winning breeds winning and it takes patience in order to do so.

Even when they were gaining momentum and getting better, they still had their setback seasons. (2004 and 2007 to be exact)

The key was that they beat the teams that they "should have" beaten and they competed against the teams they "shouldn't have" beaten, even beating a few of them. They got thumped though, too. But they bounced back.

I honestly think for us, it's less about who we play and about HOW we play. After all . . .

Yet notice they had only one season with 5 home games, and it was a season in which they played only 11 games overall.

We will have 5 home game season (maybe, still waiting to see if RV schedules that 5th home game next year) 2 years out of 4 after next year. Also, we haven't brought in close to the marque teams that TCU brought in during the stretch you quoted.

Plus, we are in a different position than TCU. We have never had a program defining win.

Ever.

TCU had already achieved this, even though it had been a while. We need this win if things around here are ever going to change. It's easier to get this win at home. Period.

If RV can't make these games happen, time to find someone more connected and with better negotiation skills who can. Oh, and who can also do math in order to avoid 5 home game seasons.

[untjim1995]

People seem to forget really quickly that TCU played Cal-Davis in '06, Stephen F. Austin in '08, Texas State in '09 (FCS at the time), Tennesee Tech in '10 and Portland State in '11. I won't bother to go beyond '11 simply because they became P5 after that.

It should also be noted that the Horned Frogs' OOC home schedule looked like this from '02-'11:

2002: SMU (3-9), UNT (8-5)

2003: Navy (8-5), Vanderbilt (2-10)

2004: Northwestern (6-6), SMU (3-8)

2005: Army (4-7) -- it should also be noted that TCU only played 11 games in '05 and only had 5 home games

2006: Cal-Davis, Texas Tech (8-5) -- I'll point out here that the Tech game was TCU's first home sellout since 1984

2007: Baylor (3-9), SMU (1-11)

2008: Stephen F. Austin, Stanford (5-7)

2009: Texas State, SMU (8-5) -- I'll point out here that the Utah game this season was the second TCU home sellout since 1984

2010: Tennessee Tech, Baylor (7-6) -- TCU also played Oregon St. at Jerry World, but that was treated as a "road" game. Also, TCU got sellouts 3 and 4 this season in the games against Baylor and Air Force

2011: Louisiana-Monroe (4-8), Portland State -- There was also a Jerry World OOC game against BYU that actually was treated as a "home" game.

My real point is: They had some big-name teams come in here and there, but for the most part they just got beatable big-conference teams in. They won those games and made a name for themselves by winning. To me it's pretty simple. Winning breeds winning and it takes patience in order to do so.

Even when they were gaining momentum and getting better, they still had their setback seasons. (2004 and 2007 to be exact)

The key was that they beat the teams that they "should have" beaten and they competed against the teams they "shouldn't have" beaten, even beating a few of them. They got thumped though, too. But they bounced back.

I honestly think for us, it's less about who we play and about HOW we play. After all . . .

I look at their OOC schedules and think, they balanced out their games with a FCS team or lower-level SBC team with games against a bunch of P5 schools and BYU. And, yes, I'd consider a game at JerryWorld, in the same county as their campus, as a home game. But we have to remember that TCU had several advantages over us at that time when they were a non-AQ team. First, they were damn good, as in ranked a lot of the time, meaning that having them on the schedule helped your team a lot, win or lose. Secondly, fans of other schools didn't mind their schools scheduling them, unlike what we have dealt with most of the old SWC teams over the decades. Third, we played in an absolute toilet of a stadium, so many teams weren't even willing to consider playing at Fouts, unlike at Amon Carter.

All of the above was supposed to be solved by Apogee being built. The SMU and Army series are fine, but they shouldn't be treated as your top home game in OOC. But here, they are, almost because they have to be. The P5 giant ass-kicking and paycheck game causes this. Again, I understand if that is just a financial issue we have to deal with. But I'd rather us do what we are doing in 2015 and play two road games at a P5 giant than to host Nicholls State or Incarnate Word here. What should be absolutely unacceptable is to have another 2012 type schedule, where you play only one OOC home game and its Texas Southern. I'll take a five game home schedule against FBS teams than a 6 game schedule that includes a FCS school that won't bring 25 people to Apogee. Only Grambling, SFA, and SHSU should be considered for this type of game here, in my opinion. But the one thing that is becoming more clear to me is that I am in the minority on this issue on gmg.com.

[FirefightnRick]

People seem to forget really quickly that TCU played Cal-Davis in '06, Stephen F. Austin in '08, Texas State in '09 (FCS at the time), Tennesee Tech in '10 and Portland State in '11.

I've seen everyone of those schools play on tv at one time or another. I still never knew Incarnate Word had a football team.

Rick

[TheFranchise]

I look at their OOC schedules and think, they balanced out their games with a FCS team or lower-level SBC team with games against a bunch of P5 schools and BYU. And, yes, I'd consider a game at JerryWorld, in the same county as their campus, as a home game. But we have to remember that TCU had several advantages over us at that time when they were a non-AQ team. First, they were damn good, as in ranked a lot of the time, meaning that having them on the schedule helped your team a lot, win or lose. Secondly, fans of other schools didn't mind their schools scheduling them, unlike what we have dealt with most of the old SWC teams over the decades. Third, we played in an absolute toilet of a stadium, so many teams weren't even willing to consider playing at Fouts, unlike at Amon Carter.

All of the above was supposed to be solved by Apogee being built. The SMU and Army series are fine, but they shouldn't be treated as your top home game in OOC. But here, they are, almost because they have to be. The P5 giant ass-kicking and paycheck game causes this. Again, I understand if that is just a financial issue we have to deal with. But I'd rather us do what we are doing in 2015 and play two road games at a P5 giant than to host Nicholls State or Incarnate Word here. What should be absolutely unacceptable is to have another 2012 type schedule, where you play only one OOC home game and its Texas Southern. I'll take a five game home schedule against FBS teams than a 6 game schedule that includes a FCS school that won't bring 25 people to Apogee. Only Grambling, SFA, and SHSU should be considered for this type of game here, in my opinion. But the one thing that is becoming more clear to me is that I am in the minority on this issue on gmg.com.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone in particular on here. I was just simply pointing out that TCU never really stopped playing the FCS teams. They took a break from it for a while, but picked it up again. That never hurt their credibility.

They also didn't really have a "program-defining win" until 2005 vs. Oklahoma, a game where the Sooners were favored by 25, had not lost a home game in seven years, and were coming off a national title game appearance. Speaking of Oklahoma, I found something interesting in my research as I dug further.

TCU actually got Oklahoma to come to Fort Worth in 1998, the year they beat USC in the Sun Bowl. They lost 10-9 to the Sooners that night at home.

Like I said, I really see both sides of the argument here.

Personally though, I don't mind playing FCS teams because we just need to amass wins. That's what teams like TCU and Boise did. When they started winning the money games on the road, that's when people took notice and that's when scheduling became easier for them.

But I'm not gonna lie: It would be dang sexy to get a big-name team to come to Apogee and we give them a heck of a game. But until I'm comfortable that we can give them a heck of a game, I have to remember that getting pounded at home would be even further embarrassing than it happening on the road.

And the teams I posted that TCU played during that span does point to what many (myself included) feel, is that it's not that we're even asking for a team like Alabama or A&M to come in here, we just want someone that people would actually KNOW and we have a great chance of beating from a P5.

I'd start looking in the Pac-12 since they would love some Texas exposure and ask a team like Colorado, who used to play here regularly in the Big XII. I'd also consider either Washington, Washington State or even Utah.

I'd then shift to the B1G and ask Northwestern. As I posted before, they played TCU a lot and I'm willing to bet would do a home-and-home with us. (Not to mention it would be a battle of two great film schools ) I also think Illinois would be doable as well.

In the ACC, I'm thinking a Syracuse or Virginia would be a great grab. I especially point out Virginia since W. Virginia is one of their closest rivals and they're in DFW every other year.

And then just for grins, I'd still love to see some G5 teams like Boise St., Memphis, Cincinnati or Houston and then of course the one G5 coming to Apogee that would just make too dang much sense . . . Colorado St. Who wouldn't love to finally see a New Orleans Bowl re-match!?

Okay, I've rambled enough . . .

[TheFranchise]

I've seen everyone of those schools play on tv at one time or another. I still never knew Incarnate Word had a football team.

Rick

And I totally agree with you on that.

[greenit]

SMU and Army are both considered to be G5 schools, right? We have extended H/H with both of those according to our schedule. The only way anything can change is if the paycheck game goes away. That would allow the elimination of the practically guaranteed road butt kicking as well as the home FCS game, and would open up the opportunity for 2 more H/H series.

[JesseMartin]

I wonder if Rick had so many people tell him they wanted us to play "schools like TCU and SMU" that he said, "Eureka! An in-state religious school is who they want as an opponent! Make it so!"

[NT80]

SMU and Army are both considered to be G5 schools, right? We have extended H/H with both of those according to our schedule.

After our game at Smut next season I would not be surprised if they ended the series. Neither their current AD nor future coach made the agreement with us and their fanbase sees nothing for them to gain by losing to or beating us.

[UNT90]

After our game at Smut next season I would not be surprised if they ended the series. Neither their current AD nor future coach made the agreement with us and their fanbase sees nothing for them to gain by losing to or beating us.

Well, we would have to agree to end the series. Contracts, my friend. I would love for UNT to make them pay through the nose and cancel the series after 4 games. The seeies is waaaaay too long for both programs.

[JesseMartin]

Well, we would have to agree to end the series. Contracts, my friend. I would love for UNT to make them pay through the nose and cancel the series after 4 games. The seeies is waaaaay too long for both programs.

I agree with half of this. I like playing them every year, but if they want to cancel, be ready to...wait for it...Pony Up! Hey, then we could use that money to skip our annual SEC/UT/OU beating and play some normal opponents.

[FirefightnRick]

Hat tip to AGC on the M&G board.

There's nothing to link to but it was in the DRC either today or yesterday that we are paying Incarnate Word $350,000 to come to Denton.

Rick

[VideoEagle]

It wasn't very long ago I had never heard of UTSA football. We don't live in a static world, things change. Who'd have thought TCU and Baylor would even be considered for the playoff? When were Ole Miss and MSU last both in the top 10 in the same season?

SMU is expecting TCU to drop their every year game and SMU wants to still play a local team every year. And our winning combined with Jones departure has made a number of their fans look forward to our game at Ford next year. The game remains a big publicity builder for both schools.

[Coffee and TV]

I've seen everyone of those schools play on tv at one time or another. I still never knew Incarnate Word had a football team.

Rick

They played NDSU the day College Gameday featured them in Fargo.

[BillySee58]

Hat tip to AGC on the M&G board.

There's nothing to link to but it was in the DRC either today or yesterday that we are paying Incarnate Word $350,000 to come to Denton.

Rick

Wow. That's only $50,000 less than we paid Idaho to come to Denton last year. And Idaho was FBS, as well as had to travel about 1700 more miles to get here than UIW will. Doesn't seem like a very good deal.

[FirefightnRick]

They played NDSU the day College Gameday featured them in Fargo.

Interesting. How did they do?

Rick

[VideoEagle]

Wow. That's only $50,000 less than we paid Idaho to come to Denton last year. And Idaho was FBS, as well as had to travel about 1700 more miles to get here than UIW will. Doesn't seem like a very good deal.

Well, it is five years later as Incarnate Word is scheduled for Sept. 22, 2018. I don't know what the average 1 and done contracts run these days so I don't have any reference as to if it's a good deal or not.

Here is a link to the article Rick referenced.

[UNT90]

This just means another whore game to cover the expense.

#teriribleschedulingcontinues

[Coffee and TV]

Interesting. How did they do?

Rick

Pretty terribly. I think the spread was like 55 points and NDSU covered about that much. Apparently the head coach of UIW scheduled them to "see how to build a FCS program".

Edited November 21, 2014 by Coffee and TV

[JesseMartin]

Pretty terribly. I think the spread was like 55 points and NDSU covered about that much. Apparently the head coach of UIW scheduled them to "see how to build get destroyed by a FCS program".

[flyonthewall]

This just means another whore game to cover the expense.

#teriribleschedulingcontinues

I think you meant

#terribleschedulingcontinues

And btw, if you took my "I thought I saw the clown show in suite level.....etc...closed the door....etc....spoke nothing of it till now....." as anything more than good natured ribbing, then I apologize. I mean, they let Adam Driver in the suite level, why not you? You should see the local bank clown show next door to me, it is epic.

#itsallajoke

[JesseMartin]

http://i.imgur.com/Qq4RcYv.gif

[UNT90]

I think you meant

#terribleschedulingcontinues

And btw, if you took my "I thought I saw the clown show in suite level.....etc...closed the door....etc....spoke nothing of it till now....." as anything more than good natured ribbing, then I apologize. I mean, they let Adam Driver in the suite level, why not you? You should see the local bank clown show next door to me, it is epic.

#itsallajoke

Nah, just firing back at ya.

I'd prefer freak show, though. Clowns are just downright creepy.