UAB Boosters Allege Trustees Could End Football Program

Mean Green 93-98 · November 7, 2014

If it can be proven that a BOT is actively and deliberately working against an institution they are overseeing, surely there are legal means to remove UAB from their oversight or vice versa...right? :unsure:

TheWestie · November 7, 2014

UAB has it bad.

The University of Alabama System Board of Trustees has 17 members and only two of them did their undergrad at UAB. One of whom is also a former UAB track athlete. One other board member got a medical degree from UAB med school and another, the State Superintendent of Education who went to Auburn but got a masters at UAB. Aside from the one dude who went to Tuskegee (but with a Bama law school degree), the rest are all Crimson Tide all the time.

Right now the majority (5 out of 9) of the UNT BOR are alums, including the Chairman, but not too long ago that was a much different story.

Edited November 7, 2014 by TheWestie

TheWestie · November 7, 2014

This got me curious and I looked up some other boards.

University of Houston system: 5 of 9 board members are alums, including the Chairman. The others went to Denver, West Point (with a UH law degree) and TCU.

Texas State System: 5 of the 9 are alums of TxSt System schools. 2 from Texas State, 2 from Lamar and 1 from Sam Houston. The others are from Prairie View A&M (the Chairwoman), Tulane, UTA and Arizona.

UT System: 7 out of 9 are UT alums. The Chairman of the UT System is a Baylor alum, and another is an Aggie with a UH law degree. There are no UT regents (as of right now) that are alums of any of the UT satellite schools.

TAMU System: 6 of 9 are ATM alums, including the Chairman. The others are from UH (with an Aggie MBA) ,UT (with a Harvard Law degree) and Texas Tech.

Texas Tech System: 8 of 9 are Tech alums. The Chairman however is an Angelo State alum. Angelo State is part of the Tech System.

VideoEagle · November 7, 2014

This got me curious and I looked up some other boards.

University of Houston system: 5 of 9 board members are alums, including the Chairman. The others went to Denver, West Point (with a UH law degree) and TCU.
Texas State System: 5 of the 9 are alums of TxSt System schools. 2 from Texas State, 2 from Lamar and 1 from Sam Houston. The others are from Prairie View A&M (the Chairwoman), Tulane, UTA and Arizona.

UT System: 7 out of 9 are UT alums. The Chairman of the UT System is a Baylor alum, and another is an Aggie with a UH law degree. There are no UT regents (as of right now) that are alums of any of the UT satellite schools.

TAMU System: 6 of 9 are ATM alums, including the Chairman. The others are from UH (with an Aggie MBA) ,UT (with a Harvard Law degree) and Texas Tech.
Texas Tech System: 8 of 9 are Tech alums. The Chairman however is an Angelo State alum. Angelo State is part of the Tech System.

Great information!

Harry · November 7, 2014

With the advent of online degrees, and more families choosing community college due to the financial savings, traditional college enrollments are declining. This does not appear to be affecting flagship schools but more often the non flagships. One example is Arkansas Little Rock who we used to be in the Sun Belt with.

My point is that the boards of regents at these non flagship universities have a challenge they now face. It seems really easy to say increase student fees but in an environment where the cost of education keeps rising and student debt after graduation keeps increasing...you have to be very cognizant of where that tuition cost is. Quick example, The housing problems seem to be due to the fact that young 1st time buyers are not buying homes at the same clip they were 5-10 years ago due to .... You guessed it student debt!

I still maintain that UNT needs to increase their student fees to be in line with our competition but also feel compelled to say that it isn't as easy a decision as some would like it to be. UNT's biggest asset is it's value for the price as well as it's location. The other issue I see the board having is return on investment. That's why year to year success in our major revenue sports is so important. We can't afford a ten year plan to be successful in C-USA. We need to have success now to help our board members see the value our athletic programs have on the entire university.

oldguystudent · November 7, 2014

more families choosing community college due to the financial savings, traditional college enrollments are declining.

If my kid doesn't get into TAMS, which is the primary goal, she is well on track for guaranteed admission to anywhere she wants to go in the state. But please, somebody, tell me why I should pay somewhere in the realm of a 5-600% tuition premium for the first two years of core classes that use the same books, have the same instructors, and are of the same quality as the local community college that will grant automatic transfer upon completion of a clearly defined curriculum? That doesn't even take into account the savings on housing. Seriously. What is my extra $20,000 a year getting me? One set of student season football tickets? Pass.

NT91 · November 7, 2014

I hope he's joking about NMSUcks.

Sorry UNM

MeanGreenTexan · November 7, 2014

If my kid doesn't get into TAMS, which is the primary goal, she is well on track for guaranteed admission to anywhere she wants to go in the state. But please, somebody, tell me why I should pay somewhere in the realm of a 5-600% tuition premium for the first two years of core classes that use the same books, have the same instructors, and are of the same quality as the local community college that will grant automatic transfer upon completion of a clearly defined curriculum? That doesn't even take into account the savings on housing. Seriously. What is my extra $20,000 a year getting me? One set of student season football tickets? Pass.

Do you recall your freshman year at college? Did you stay in dorms? Did you get plugged into different clubs/activities? Not all about the academics.

That's why you would consider sending your kids to a University for their first years. And if your kid is on track for TAMS, then you shouldn't have any problems finding academic scholarships!

Cerebus · November 7, 2014

What is my extra $20,000 a year getting me? .

Nationally, kids who transfer from a CC to a 4 year university have about a 60% 6 year graduation rate. That is a pretty good rate.

The problem lies in the fact that only 20% of students who attend a CC ever transfer to a 4 year university. So only about 12% of students who attend a CC will complete an undergraduate degree within 6 years.

---

As a side note, I when looking this data up I noticed that UNT now has a five year rolling average of over 200 PHDs awarded per year, which is one of the qualifications for Tier 1 Status.

oldguystudent · November 7, 2014

Do you recall your freshman year at college? Did you stay in dorms? Did you get plugged into different clubs/activities? Not all about the academics.
That's why you would consider sending your kids to a University for their first years. And if your kid is on track for TAMS, then you shouldn't have any problems finding academic scholarships!

My freshman year in college, inclusive, cost $1,500. For that kind of money, I'll buy experience, clubs, and late night pillow fights. For $25,000 a year, a more realistic current cost, I'm gonna look long and hard at ROI, and experience, clubs, and late night pillow fights ain't worth that kind of change to this lowly wage earner.

Of course, if the scholarships are there, then by all means, go toot your tailgate horn, kid. But my dime, it becomes an investment.

MeanGreenTexan · November 7, 2014

My freshman year in college, inclusive, cost $1,500. For that kind of money, I'll buy experience, clubs, and late night pillow fights. For $25,000 a year, a more realistic current cost, I'm gonna look long and hard at ROI, and experience, clubs, and late night pillow fights ain't worth that kind of change to this lowly wage earner.

Of course, if the scholarships are there, then by all means, go toot your tailgate horn, kid. But my dime, it becomes an investment.

Understandable.

If your kid is able to qualify (or even come close) to TAMS admission, you're in a good spot for the scholarship dough!

Ryan Munthe · November 7, 2014

As a side note, I when looking this data up I noticed that UNT now has a five year rolling average of over 200 PHDs awarded per year, which is one of the qualifications for Tier 1 Status.

Yup! Great news. Now we need to improve endowment and restricted research.

forevereagle · November 7, 2014

I spent my first two years at a CC and I regret nothing. I am with oldguystudent here. I wasn't sure what I wanted to major in or where I wanted to go. I could have gone anywhere I wanted, but why spend a ton of money to discover that I am at the wrong school when two years helped me figure that out. I came to UNT and got involved and even met my wife. Nothing wrong with it if you keep your priorities in line.

GL2Greatness · November 7, 2014

Nationally, kids who transfer from a CC to a 4 year university have about a 60% 6 year graduation rate. That is a pretty good rate.

The problem lies in the fact that only 20% of students who attend a CC ever transfer to a 4 year university. So only about 12% of students who attend a CC will complete an undergraduate degree within 6 years.

---

As a side note, I when looking this data up I noticed that UNT now has a five year rolling average of over 200 PHDs awarded per year, which is one of the qualifications for Tier 1 Status.

actually unT has that average for DOCTORATES which are not all PhDs and do not all count towards NRUF funding

in Fiscal Year 2013 unT graduated 180 PhDs that would count towards NRUF funding and this year should be more, but then at Dr. Smastrek said there will be a dropp off in 2015 at least because 2014 was an abbynormal year for PhD/Doctorate production

Mean Green 93-98 · November 14, 2014

Here's another great article--but scary--about UAB's potential shutdown: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24806444/is-the-alabama-board-of-trustees-finally-ready-to-kill-uab-football

FirefightnRick · November 14, 2014

What? I thought you absolutely, positively had to give out 5 year contracts in college athletics?

"Clark only has a three-year contract (unheard of for a first-year FBS coach) through 2016,..."

forevereagle · November 14, 2014

What? I thought you absolutely, positively had to give out 5 year contracts in college athletics?

"Clark only has a three-year contract (unheard of for a first-year FBS coach) through 2016,..."

Relevance?

untjim1995 · November 14, 2014

What? I thought you absolutely, positively had to give out 5 year contracts in college athletics?

"Clark only has a three-year contract (unheard of for a first-year FBS coach) through 2016,..."

Who in their right mind would accept a three year deal to coach college football, especially at the G5 level? This Clark guy cannot be surprised that his school is trying to drop football when they only offered him a 3 year contract. If I were Banowsky, ULL's phone would be ringing right now with a contingent offer to join CUSA.

NT93 · November 14, 2014

Why does it have to be a SBC call up?
Think a little bigger... try and lure N.Ill away from the MAC. If Banowsky is serious about procuring markets, it doesnt get much better than Chicago.

I agree. C-USA is already has too many former Sun Belt members. I didn't want us to get out of the Sun Belt just to be right back in it 5 years later under a different name. Is a MAC school any better? I think so, but even if it's not at least it's not contributing to the reuniting of the ol Belt.

untjim1995 · November 14, 2014

I agree. C-USA is already has too many former Sun Belt members. I didn't want us to get out of the Sun Belt just to be right back in it 5 years later under a different name. Is a MAC school any better? I think so, but even if it's not at least it's not contributing to the reuniting of the ol Belt.

Why would Northern Illinois leave the MAC for CUSA?

Arkstfan · November 14, 2014

With the advent of online degrees, and more families choosing community college due to the financial savings, traditional college enrollments are declining. This does not appear to be affecting flagship schools but more often the non flagships. One example is Arkansas Little Rock who we used to be in the Sun Belt with.
My point is that the boards of regents at these non flagship universities have a challenge they now face. It seems really easy to say increase student fees but in an environment where the cost of education keeps rising and student debt after graduation keeps increasing...you have to be very cognizant of where that tuition cost is. Quick example, The housing problems seem to be due to the fact that young 1st time buyers are not buying homes at the same clip they were 5-10 years ago due to .... You guessed it student debt!
I still maintain that UNT needs to increase their student fees to be in line with our competition but also feel compelled to say that it isn't as easy a decision as some would like it to be. UNT's biggest asset is it's value for the price as well as it's location. The other issue I see the board having is return on investment. That's why year to year success in our major revenue sports is so important. We can't afford a ten year plan to be successful in C-USA. We need to have success now to help our board members see the value our athletic programs have on the entire university.

There are HUGE problems facing intercollegiate athletics and right now is a great time to be FBS because the CFP money will cover your stipend costs with maybe a few bucks left.

BUT

The national trend is that enrollment is expected to be flat or decline over the next decade. Not the first time it happened. When colleges ran out of post-WWII GI Bill students a number of schools failed a number of others dropped football (Denver and Little Rock among many). The second time it happened was in the late 60's early 70's as the baby boomers moved out of college age (decline hastened when college draft deferments were limited). University of Louisville nearly went under but was saved by the state. Little Rock University (private) was taken over by the state of Arkansas, the schools now called Arkansas-Monticello and Arkansas-Pine Bluff were going under as well and were absorbed. This happened all over the country and a number of schools dropped football to save money.

In Arkansas we are already seeing declining enrollment everywhere but UA, AState, and Arkansas Tech. Everyone else is flat or falling with biggest drops at UALR (they don't offer the college experience many want) and Central Arkansas (having consecutive presidents convicted of felony shenanigans as well as state auditors shutting down their pyramid scheme scholarship program has hurt).

The greater the reliance on student income the greater the risk unless you can grow or at least hold steady.

Another key issue is governmental support. Nationally state support for higher ed adjusted for inflation is about half what it was 30 years ago. When schools were failing in the 70's state government was dominated by WWII/depression era people who were strong for public higher education. Today there is no political risk in voting against higher ed funding and worse there is actually a lot to gain politically by voting to cut government spending even on higher ed.

We saw what happened when gov't funding for colleges drops quickly. California lost multiple FBS programs in the wake of their tax revolt against property tax.

Many experts believe we are headed to a student loan crisis because students are finding it harder and harder to repay loans. If Congress has to jump in expect eligibility to be tightened and tighter caps on borrowing limits. Right now students and parents are terribly price sensitive. If less loan money is available it will be another shock to enrollment and if price sensitivity emerges large athletic fees are problem.

As I noted, its a good time to be FBS because you've got a funding source for stipend but also a calling card to help keep enrollment up. Funding stipends in hoops without another revenue source is a problem. Indiana State it is thought may drop football at the end of the year, keeping pace with stipend coupled with a pressing need for a multi-million facility upgrade for football to remain viable in FCS is the problem.

This why I like the leadership at AState. New pressbox and luxury seating opens in 2015 and will generate over a million a year based on current contracts for seats there and those are seven year contracts. The construction is fully funded, so it's all new revenue.

We are working to open a new campus in Mexico that will be run as a private school owned by our Foundation and run by our board and is expected to net several million a year, 2016 we open a med school in partnership with NY Tech Institute that looks like a major money maker and is a private venture as well. Rumor mill claims that we are close to absorbing another junior college in the state taking us to seven juco campuses, with an 8th also contemplating merging in. The system president is trying to maximize revenue to reduce dependence on state aid because he expects state aid to fall, rumor mill claims at least one four year school in the state is talking informally about being taken over because they cannot absorb another aid cut and they don't want to go to the UA system because the campuses they've absorbed haven't fared that well.

Right now everything is lining up for a series of crisis in higher ed but if you are not carrying an excessive debt burden and are creative in finding funding, it is an excellent time to be Mr. Potter in Bedford Falls buying when everyone is selling.

Arkstfan · November 14, 2014

Why would Northern Illinois leave the MAC for CUSA?

They wouldn't. WKU is the closest CUSA school to them and they are about 460 miles away. Their longest MAC trip is just under 600 miles.

MeanGreenTexan · November 14, 2014

Why would Northern Illinois leave the MAC for CUSA?

Money my friend.

The MAC just signed a new deal with ESPN, which, I believe, is their only deal. That deal is signed through 2027. The payout is $8mil/yr.

C-USA has 4 TV deals (Fox, CBS, ESPN, Sinclair), with Fox being the biggest. That Fox deal runs out in 2016. The payout is $7mil/yr and stands go go up when it is re-negotiated. Then there are the other 3 deals, smaller for sure, but overall increases the payout to $4mil/yr MORE than what the ESPN deal pays MAC schools. So, show N.Ill the money, and maybe they'll come over. Who knows? Worth a shot, rather than just going back to the SBC well.

Arkstfan · November 14, 2014

Money my friend.
The MAC just signed a new deal with ESPN, which, I believe, is their only deal. That deal is signed through 2027. The payout is $8mil/yr.

C-USA has 4 TV deals (Fox, CBS, ESPN, Sinclair), with Fox being the biggest. That Fox deal runs out in 2016. The payout is $7mil/yr and stands go go up when it is re-negotiated. Then there are the other 3 deals, smaller for sure, but overall increases the payout to $4mil/yr MORE than what the ESPN deal pays MAC schools. So, show N.Ill the money, and maybe they'll come over. Who knows? Worth a shot, rather than just going back to the SBC well.

Might want to check your math.

Assuming all the money is distributed straight to the schools, NIU's share of the MAC TV deal would be $666,666.67 and share of CUSA TV would be $1 million (I'm basing that on CUSA's deal being $6 million more than MAC as has been reported elsewhere).

But there is also CFP distribution to consider. Their guaranteed distribution in the MAC is $1 million. In CUSA it is $857,142.86

So the net difference is MAC annually is worth $1,666,666.67 and CUSA $1,857,142.86 a difference of $190,476.19 per year.

Now to get that money, they would forego one year of revenue from the MAC and have to pay CUSA $2 million to enter so the total cost of entry would be $3,666,666.67. They would recover the entry cost in 19 years and three months and that is presuming that the travel costs are identical.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Arkstfan

untjim1995 · November 14, 2014

Money my friend.
The MAC just signed a new deal with ESPN, which, I believe, is their only deal. That deal is signed through 2027. The payout is $8mil/yr.

C-USA has 4 TV deals (Fox, CBS, ESPN, Sinclair), with Fox being the biggest. That Fox deal runs out in 2016. The payout is $7mil/yr and stands go go up when it is re-negotiated. Then there are the other 3 deals, smaller for sure, but overall increases the payout to $4mil/yr MORE than what the ESPN deal pays MAC schools. So, show N.Ill the money, and maybe they'll come over. Who knows? Worth a shot, rather than just going back to the SBC well.

I wouldn't count on the Fox deal with CUSA increasing at all. I just hope it remians the same. We love CUSA because it is better than the old SBC was, but the networks know its just SBC 2.0 and that he teams that are still here (USM, Rice, UAB, Marshall, and UTEP) are here because they have no alternative choice. They'd have jumped on an AAC invite in a heartbeat if they could get one.

I lke ULL because they fit the footprint for travel, fill in an area we don't have a team (Southern Louisiana), and they have built up a nice G5 program. We want travel costs to stay low and replacing UAB with them would be a good trade, in my opinion.