Giving RV Credit where credit is due - Non revenue Sports

[Harry]

RV has hired good coaches in the non-revenue sports and it is paying dividends. He didn't hire Hedlund but he has kept him here and they won a C-USA Championship. Softball was a big surprise last season and that coach Kee looks to be special. Volleyball improving, and swimming off to its best start ever. Tennis and golf rebuilding but have potential.

Yes we are experiencing a down/rebuilding year in football but the odds are Mac can make some adjustments and turn it around. The jury is out still on Benford and Coach Pete.

Still, the non revenue sports have been improving and RV deserves much of the credit for that.

[MeanGreenTeeth]

Harry,

He was hired over 13 years ago! It isn't like he was hired 4 years ago and has experienced some great turnaround. Non-revenue sports have been generally awful under his tenure.

[Travis]

I recall he has made good hires in tennis, softball, volleyball... I'm not sure about anything else...

He had a good girls BB hire that moved on to Texas too.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Travis

[MeanGreenTexan]

I recall he has made good hires in tennis, softball, volleyball... I'm not sure about anything else...

He had a good girls BB hire that moved on to Texas too.

Dont forget about coach Stracke as well.

He also knew what he had in JJ and extended him twice.

[forevereagle]

Harry,

He was hired over 13 years ago! It isn't like he was hired 4 years ago and has experienced some great turnaround. Non-revenue sports have been generally awful under his tenure.

So are we willing to give him credit for the fact that he was the AD for more bowl and NCAA tournament appearances than any other AD at NT? Does he get any credit for improving our facilities more than any other AD?

Just curious how this evaluation works since we have so many calling for his job and he can't seem to get ahead when things go well.

[Army of Dad]

So are we willing to give him credit for the fact that he was the AD for more bowl and NCAA tournament appearances than any other AD at NT? Does he get any credit for improving our facilities more than any other AD?

Just curious how this evaluation works since we have so many calling for his job and he can't seem to get ahead when things go well.

So best UNT AD since the turn of the century? Best in the modern era?

[forevereagle]

So best UNT AD since the turn of the century? Best in the modern era?

Not saying best of anything, just get sick of the two responses that come up.

1. Things are going well in X, but remember when they sucked? Fire RV!

2. Things are going poorly in X and always have! Fire RV!

[SilverEagle]

So are we willing to give him credit for the fact that he was the AD for more bowl and NCAA tournament appearances than any other AD at NT? Does he get any credit for improving our facilities more than any other AD?

Just curious how this evaluation works since we have so many calling for his job and he can't seem to get ahead when things go well.

2001 to 2004 bowl run. It was well known during that time that RV wanted to fire DD in 2001 right before the bowl run. They barely spoke to one another during that era and Dickey was fired in 2005 the first year the team faltered. During that run our average attendance was (01) 14,769, (02) 15,260, (03) 18,694...aided by the previous years bowl win and a home game w/Baylor, (04) 15,184.

Winning football games is the coaches job. PROMOTING THE PROGRAM AND GETTING AS MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED, BOTH IN THE COMMUNITY AND THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM, IS THE AD'S JOB.

When he was given the opportunity to hire his own football "guy" it was one of the worst hires in NT history.

The most recent hire is much better, but even with the great credibility of McCarney and the big bowl trip and win, we still are not significantly closer to regular sell-outs than we were in 2003. McCarney does his part, BUT PROMOTIONS ARE NOT HIS JOB! GETTING OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY (AND NT AREA) AND GETTING THE COMMUNITY/AREA TO EMBRACE NORTH TEXAS FOOTBALL IS NOT MCCARNEY'S JOB.

And as to facilities. The main practice facility and some of the Athletic center were finished because of a generous donation by Mattress Mac. And that was because Mac liked DD not RV. Only at North Texas could something that dysfunctional happen.

And finally,

The stadium (and other things since the stadium was built) was build because of an income stream (raising student service fees) that was brought about by the officers of the SGA. THEY organized the vote, and THEY did all the Q&A's at public meetings about the vote. A few years before, RV tried to get the students to vote to raise the fees....and failed miserably. And that was because he didn't have a clue about NT history and NT culture.

[VideoEagle]

RV is clearly better than most of the ADs since I was a student back in the 70s. He isn't perfect and when I've talked to him he doesn't claim to be perfect. But on the whole, he's the best we've had in the last 40 years.

[SilverEagle]

RV is clearly better than most of the ADs since I was a student back in the 70s. He isn't perfect and when I've talked to him he doesn't claim to be perfect. But on the whole, he's the best we've had in the last 40 years.

With all due respect. Hayden Fry, who was AD during his run here was MUCH BETTER...and he was doing two jobs.. He IMMEDIATELY identified the root problem at NT, which was our culture and then went about trying to change it.

[Grant.UNT]

I love RV! I don't like Benford, and I think RV has to be held accountable for the hire. Additionally, we couldn't stop Aston from going to UT, nor could we stop JJ from going to LSU. No school would be able to stop those coaches from leaving any unless it was a top 5 program. How many top 5 or 10 programs are out there to be had? Each of those coaches left for their dream job. Can't put that on RV. You can blame him for Benford, but what do I know. He came from good stock. He just hasn't panned out. I predict a Benford firing this year if he doesn't get off to a hot start.

RV is a good man. I give him credit for a lot of good here. Apparently, some of you think that we have coaches from P5 schools calling to be in NT. Not the case.

[UNT90]

So are we willing to give him credit for the fact that he was the AD for more bowl and NCAA tournament appearances than any other AD at NT? Does he get any credit for improving our facilities more than any other AD?

Just curious how this evaluation works since we have so many calling for his job and he can't seem to get ahead when things go well.

Because things going well at UNT (which doesn't mean a conference championship in football, just a third place finish in your division and a bowl game) once every 10 years at UNT makes you a swell AD with the expectations at this place.

Scheduling sucks, and he told us he will continue to schedule the exact same way he always has on Harry's podcast. That was kinda the last straw for me. If you can't figure out a better way than that, I don't want you as our AD. It's lazy, unimaginative, and we will pay with another 5 home game season (with the only OOC game being an FCS) next season. Remember, we currently only have FOUR home games scheduled next season.

He also lost me when he blamed 19 year old players for the disaster that HE gave us in Tony Benford. We had a chance to really take a step up in basketball, instead, he hires a coach that has to learn how to be a head coach and then blames 20 year old kids for HIS mistake.

HIS MISTAKE!

Yet he blames kids. And he comes on the podcast to cast that blame, saying that 2012 team really wasnt that talented. Funny thing is, his athletic department advertised that 2012 team as "the most talented team in UNT's history."

Which is it, RV? Were you lying to us then or lying to us now?

The culture of excuses runs strong in this AD. Quite frankly, I'm ready to see what someone else can do. I know, it's always a risk at UNT. We could get someone way worse. And if history truely is an accurate prognosticator, that is what will probably happen.

But I'm ready to take that chance.

[untjim1995]

2001 to 2004 bowl run. It was well known during that time that RV wanted to fire DD in 2001 right before the bowl run. They barely spoke to one another during that era and Dickey was fired in 2005 the first year the team faltered. During that run our average attendance was (01) 14,769, (02) 15,260, (03) 18,694...aided by the previous years bowl win and a home game w/Baylor, (04) 15,184.

Winning football games is the coaches job. PROMOTING THE PROGRAM AND GETTING AS MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED, BOTH IN THE COMMUNITY AND THE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM, IS THE AD'S JOB.

When he was given the opportunity to hire his own football "guy" it was one of the worst hires in NT history.

The most recent hire is much better, but even with the great credibility of McCarney and the big bowl trip and win, we still are not significantly closer to regular sell-outs than we were in 2003. McCarney does his part, BUT PROMOTIONS ARE NOT HIS JOB! GETTING OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY (AND NT AREA) AND GETTING THE COMMUNITY/AREA TO EMBRACE NORTH TEXAS FOOTBALL IS NOT MCCARNEY'S JOB.

And as to facilities. The main practice facility and some of the Athletic center were finished because of a generous donation by Mattress Mac. And that was because Mac liked DD not RV. Only at North Texas could something that dysfunctional happen.

And finally,

The stadium (and other things since the stadium was built) was build because of an income stream (raising student service fees) that was brought about by the officers of the SGA. THEY organized the vote, and THEY did all the Q&A's at public meetings about the vote. A few years before, RV tried to get the students to vote to raise the fees....and failed miserably. And that was because he didn't have a clue about NT history and NT culture.

Congratulations on some great results in non-revenue sports. I'd rather win those than lose in them, too, like we do in revenue sports, so that is a good accomplishment for the AD.

To me, RV has the few monied alums that contribute to this place on his side, as well as the BOR and administration, both of which want him to keep athletics cost-friendly and to never publically complain about the way things are here, culturally. He will be here for as long as he wants, barring anything criminal, health-wise, or making statemetns that would force him to leave. He has the best job in the world, as far as I'm concerned.

An ADs job at every single FBS school in America is to get as many people to actually attend the best teams you can field at your revenue sports, of which there are just two at UNT--football and mens hoops. In football, we have 4 conference championships and 2 bowl wins in that period, as well 4 teams that had winning seasons...since 2001. Assuming 2014 ends the way it looks like it will, that will make 10 years of losing UNT Football, out of 14. The total record is 62-104 in his time here. In mens hoops, he has seen our program have 7 winning seasons, 0 regular season conference championships, and 2 NCAA apperances as a 15 seed that ended in double digit losses. 6 seasons finished at .500 or worse. Attendance at UNT Football under RV, in a great year, will average over 20k, while in a bad year it will average around 15k. In basketball, the best average was in the 3000s, while the worst is around 2000. That represents 50-67% capacity at our football stadiums, as well as 20-35% capacity at The Super Pit. After 14 years as being the AD at a school that has gone from about 29k in attendance to almost 37k in attendance, has now seen a local alumni increase to over 200k, and the local town increase by tens of thousands in population, which doesn't even count the increase in the population in Denton County, much less the DFW area. With all of this, RV received extensions in May of 2010, February of 2012 and last year in October, with a contract that runs until 2018. Cumulatively in football, since he got extended the first time in 2010, our football team has had three head coaches, went 23-32 (.418), and we had 1 winning season that led to a bowl win over UNLV.

But he did open up tailgating, got us a football series against hated rival SMU, and was the AD when UNTFlyer decided to run a stealth campaign thru the SGA that got the vote to approve Apogee being built. And our non-revenue sports are apparently doing well. Another extension is probably in the works in the next few years by the BOR, of which I have no doubt he will gladly enjoy as the AD here well into the 2020s.

Edited November 3, 2014 by untjim1995

[untjim1995]

Because things going well at UNT (which doesn't mean a conference championship in football, just a third place finish in your division and a bowl game) once every 10 years at UNT makes you a swell AD with the expectations at this place.

Scheduling sucks, and he told us he will continue to schedule the exact same way he always has on Harry's podcast. That was kinda the last straw for me. If you can't figure out a better way than that, I don't want you as our AD. It's lazy, unimaginative, and we will pay with another 5 home game season (with the only OOC game being an FCS) next season. Remember, we currently only have FOUR home games scheduled next season.

He also lost me when he blamed 19 year old players for the disaster that HE gave us in Tony Benford. We had a chance to really take a step up in basketball, instead, he hires a coach that has to learn how to be a head coach and then blames 20 year old kids for HIS mistake.

HIS MISTAKE!

Yet he blames kids. And he comes on the podcast to cast that blame, saying that 2012 team really wasnt that talented. Funny thing is, his athletic department advertised that 2012 team as "the most talented team in UNT's history."

Which is it, RV? Were you lying to us then or lying to us now?

The culture of excuses runs strong in this AD. Quite frankly, I'm ready to see what someone else can do. I know, it's always a risk at UNT. We could get someone way worse. And if history truely is an accurate prognosticator, that is what will probably happen.

But I'm ready to take that chance.

RV isn't going anywhere anytime soon--just like Benford and McCarney aren't either. It isn't worth the time to bitch about this--no one is gonna change this. RV has the BOR on his side, while Benford and McCarney have contract buyouts on their side. Trust me on this one, especially with the schedule that Benford has in front of him, if he finishes near .500, he's getting an extension after this season. That is how the AD will show you that he wasn't a mistake being hired as an unproven coach.

Edited November 3, 2014 by untjim1995

[UNT90]

RV isn't going anywhere anytime soon--just like Benfor and McCarney aren't either. It isn't worth the time to bitch about this--no one is gonna change this. RV has the BOR on his side, while Benford and McCarney have contract buyouts on their side. Trust me on this one, especially with the schedule that Benford has in front of him, if he finishes near .500, he's getting an extension after this season. That is how the AD will show you that he wasn't a mistake being hired as an unproven coach.

Easy big boy. Benford won't get an extension with a .500 record. That won't happen (the .500 record or the extension). RV is too concerned for his own job to allow that.

There is a reason something stays F'ed up like this for so long. It is because those who have the ultimate power simply don't care. It's sad, but it's something as a UNT sports fan that you simply come to expect after a certain amount of time.

[MeanGreenTexan]

Easy big boy. Benford won't get an extension with a .500 record. That won't happen (the .500 record or the extension). RV is too concerned for his own job to allow that.

There is a reason something stays F'ed up like this for so long. It is because those who have the ultimate power simply don't care. It's sad, but it's something as a UNT sports fan that you simply come to expect after a certain amount of time.

Right. Let's not get it twisted here: RV may be hamstrung by budget, but RV is not dumb.

[VideoEagle]

With all due respect. Hayden Fry, who was AD during his run here was MUCH BETTER...and he was doing two jobs.. He IMMEDIATELY identified the root problem at NT, which was our culture and then went about trying to change it.

Hayden was a great example of you should keep the job of football coach and athletic director split. Great coach, but poor AD. If it wasn't part of the football program, then it was ignored. Many of his AD decisions obviously hurt other sports like basketball. Can you imagine how Hayden would have reacted to Title IX spending requirements as an AD!

Culture is one of many things including budgets and university politics that a successful athletic director must control. No one can always control it all, which is why ADs aren't very popular with fans at the vast majority of schools. It's always a balancing act and thus an AD will always offend some people with every decision.

[untjim1995]

Easy big boy. Benford won't get an extension with a .500 record. That won't happen (the .500 record or the extension). RV is too concerned for his own job to allow that.

There is a reason something stays F'ed up like this for so long. It is because those who have the ultimate power simply don't care. It's sad, but it's something as a UNT sports fan that you simply come to expect after a certain amount of time.

RV isn't concerned about his job, pal...

You watch--if he gets to .500 or better, he's gonna get a two year extension or more. We play Arkansas-Monticello, Nicholls State, Delaware State, Iona, Mississippi Valley State, Langston, Prairie View and Creighton at home--and that Creighton game is on 12/21 when there won't be any students around to come to the game. So, realistically, Creighton and Iona are the two most likely losses--the others are all probable wins. We won't win a road game at Arkansas, Okie State, SFA, or Texas Tech, so that gets us to 6-6 right there. If we go 9-9 in conference, then split a couple fo games in the CUSA Tournament, we go 16-16, which matches last year's record with what was the worst OOC I had ever seen scheduled here in a long time, like the pre-Trilli days. RV hates that Benford is looked at as a colossal failure. Another .500 season here is going to get rewarded. He will be promoted in the media by RV as showing that he is now understanding what it takes to be a head coach in basketball, now that he has three years under his belt. You'll see...

It will take a win number under 15 to have Benford go into his 4th year (of 5) without a contract extension. And it'll take a win total under 5 to have even a remote chance at seeing him removed, although I doubt it...what in the world would make you believe otherwise? Frankly, I'm surprised you'd think an extension after this season in that hypothetical mentioned above wouldn't happen, knowing what you know about this place and RV's history here.

Edited November 3, 2014 by untjim1995

[Army of Dad]

RV isn't concerned about his job, pal...

You watch--if he gets to .500 or better, he's gonna get a two year extension or more. We play Arkansas-Monticello, Nicholls State, Delaware State, Iona, Mississippi Valley State, Langston, Prairie View and Creighton at home--and that Creighton game is on 12/21 when there won't be any students around to come to the game. So, realistically, Creighton and Iona are the two most likely losses--the others are all probable wins. We won't win a road game at Arkansas, Okie State, SFA, or Texas Tech, so that gets us to 6-6 right there. If we go 9-9 in conference, then split a couple fo games in the CUSA Tournament, we go 16-16, which matches last year's record with what was the worst OOC I had ever seen scheduled here in a long time, like the pre-Trilli days. RV hates that Benford is looked at as a colossal failure. Another .500 season here is going to get rewarded. He will be promoted in the media by RV as showing that he is now understanding what it takes to be a head coach in basketball, now that he has three years under his belt. You'll see...

It will take a win number under 15 to have Benford go into his 4th year (of 5) without a contract extension. And it'll take a win total under 5 to have even a remote chance at seeing him removed, although I doubt it...what in the world would make you believe otherwise? Frankly, I'm surprised you'd think an extension after this season in that hypothetical mentioned above wouldn't happen, knowing what you know about this place and RV's history here.

I'm not buying this. I don't see how anyone is going to extend a coach who was a career record below .500 in basketball, especially at a school that has had recent success in MBB.

My guess is that Benford will be fired (or god help us, extended) after his fourth season when it's more affordable to can him. No (good) reason to extend him after this season.

[untjim1995]

I'm not buying this. I don't see how anyone is going to extend a coach who was a career record below .500 in basketball, especially at a school that has had recent success in MBB.

My guess is that Benford will be fired (or god help us, extended) after his fourth season when it's more affordable to can him. No (good) reason to extend him after this season.

He's already been given a free pass from RV on Year 1, when he blamed that season on the players, not the coach. Now that those guys are gone, this is Benford's team of players, so he is 16-16 as far as RV is concerned. Hell, he got UTA off the schedule so that we could replace them with teams like Langston and Wayland Baptist at home in the last two seasons. If you cannot go .500 with this schedule, you should get fired once that is not possible. Not here, though. All that will mean is that he will be certain to coach here in Year 4 of his contract. But a .500 season means Benford is affordable to extend for a few years. If Benford goes 16-16 again, he get easily be extended for another two or three years at a friendly salary for the BOR, instead of potentially buying out a year of salary in 2016 and then paying for another contract. You all know how the BOR looks at this stuff here.

This just seems crystal clear to me, based on how things have always functioned here regarding revenue sports. I hope I'm wrong compeltely, but there is nothing from the past that makes me feel that it won't happen. That OOC home schedule is just putrid--if you cannot go 6-2 versus that collection of teams at home, than you are probably right and we won't be having this argument. But I have a feeling that .500 is very possible again--and if so, then we are going to be sold that Benford is very deserving of receiving an extension after all that he has had to endure on the job. Remember this--the big money is behind Benford right now, as is the BOR and the AD. That is a huge advantage at a school like ours...

[GreenBat]

He's already been given a free pass from RV on Year 1, when he blamed that season on the players, not the coach. Now that those guys are gone, this is Benford's team of players, so he is 16-16 as far as RV is concerned. Hell, he got UTA off the schedule so that we could replace them with teams like Langston and Wayland Baptist at home in the last two seasons. If you cannot go .500 with this schedule, you should get fired once that is not possible. Not here, though. All that will mean is that he will be certain to coach here in Year 4 of his contract. But a .500 season means Benford is affordable to extend for a few years. If Benford goes 16-16 again, he get easily be extended for another two or three years at a friendly salary for the BOR, instead of potentially buying out a year of salary in 2016 and then paying for another contract. You all know how the BOR looks at this stuff here.

This just seems crystal clear to me, based on how things have always functioned here regarding revenue sports. I hope I'm wrong compeltely, but there is nothing from the past that makes me feel that it won't happen. That OOC home schedule is just putrid--if you cannot go 6-2 versus that collection of teams at home, than you are probably right and we won't be having this argument. But I have a feeling that .500 is very possible again--and if so, then we are going to be sold that Benford is very deserving of receiving an extension after all that he has had to endure on the job. Remember this--the big money is behind Benford right now, as is the BOR and the AD. That is a huge advantage at a school like ours...

If any of this thinking is true, then RV MUST be GONE. All of his passes for the stadium have been used up. How he has pulled the wool over the BOR eyes for so long has me wondering if the BOR is qualified to be in charge of the University.

[untjim1995]

If any of this thinking is true, then RV MUST be GONE. All of his passes for the stadium have been used up. How he has pulled the wool over the BOR eyes for so long has me wondering if the BOR is qualified to be in charge of the University.

If the BOR doesn't care about winning, then it isn't an issue how RV runs the AD, just as long as he stays within the budget and doesn't embarrass them with his words or actions. He has it made here...if you want to believe differently, you aren't looking at what RV has done to get these extensions. I don't even blame RV--if someone gave me extensions and a huge salary to just stay within the bounds of a budget, I'd gladly take it and keep on taking it as long as they wanted to give it out.

[UNTcrazy727]

The fact that so many people on this board refuse to give any credit to RV for the building of Apogee is laughable. Sure, the SGA and people like UNTflyer got us over the hump, but IMO those kind of people don't exist without RV. Before RV got to UNT you were made fun of if you supported Mean Green athletics. RV began the slow movement to change that perception, which led to students stepping up making sure the stadium vote passed. We don't have the great student turnouts like we've had the past couple years without RV.

[Green P1]

UNT sports is a sad sports topic.

[oldguystudent]